Sermon on the mount - life or legalistic junk

[PeterJens]

Christ died on the cross and rose from the dead to give us His life - not to bring rules to live by.

This is so true. Jesus brought us freedom through the cross to be slaves to righteousness
because this is our hearts desire.

And in our hearts desire we find we are fulfilling all the constraints, warnings, inspiration given
in the law and the sermon on the mount that drives us deeper to Praise God for His great work
in our hearts.

Now only, and I mean only, if you fail there is still much work to do.

It is why the joy is to be reminded of the walk and also of it final objective to be like Christ.

 

[preacher4truth]

Christ died on the cross and rose from the dead to give us His life - not to bring rules to live by. We live by His life in us now and He bears His fruit on us the branches. Get this backwards and we create a religion called Christianity.

Colossians 3:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me" John 10:27

"If you love me you will keep my commandments" John 14:15

(I know it is very difficult for many to not call that works salvation and conflate prescriptive and descriptive texts, and throw them out altogether but such is the case when one espouses a truncated gospel)

Anyhow, it is no wonder the lost are called "the children of disobedience"; Ephesians 2:2, and that there is such a state of those "who obey not the Gospel"; 2 Thessalonians 1:8, and it is even among those who profess to be believers. It is 2 Timothy 3:5 in action and a denial of the "all" in 2 Corinthians 3:18.

 

[FreeNChrist]

This is true, by showing us without His love and life in our hearts we cannot
fulfill Gods aspirations. But with Gods power at work in us, we do fulfill them.

It appears to me it is this second part you are missing.

No. By showing us that without Him we are toast.

 

[notuptome]

Context, context, context.

Jesus taught the sermon on the mount to a Jewish audience. The Jews look for and seek a kingdom on the earth. The church seeks the kingdom of God in heaven. The interpretation does not change but the application of the truths taught are different to each party.

The sermon on the mount is prophecy and will be fulfilled in the millennial reign of Christ and completely fulfilled in the new earth.

Application for the church is that the sermon on the mount establishes high standards of conduct. We must concede that we cannot attain them in this life but they are ours in eternity.

Ro 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another; for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Stephen63]

A man who doesnt want to listen to Jesus obviously doesn't love Jesus.

John 14:15 If you love me, you will keep my commands.

That pretty much covered easy believism, Osas, & Hyp~~~~~~e.

Some say easy believism is Hyp~~~~~~e.

It's hard to tell anymore..... they seem to be evolving sometimes, don't they?

 

[John146]

Not quite, you show a profound misunderstanding of the Gospel in few words.

Have you plucked out your eye, cut off your right hand yet with your literalism?

The plain fact is some professing believers simply don't like the "hard truths" of the Gospel and dismiss it, and say its for the Jews. As Paul said, there is "no difference" between the Jew and Gentile. The things Christ preached in the Gospel accounts concerning the Gospel and the Kingdom are to, and for all believers. You can toss them out if you want and preach a truncated message because there is not much in them that is for you at all.

After the resurrection and the Jew's rejection of their King, God places the responsibility of reaching the Gentile world to the Apostle Paul. Now, there is no Jew or Gentile in the body of Christ. We are all one. In the sermon on the mount, the Lord was teaching specifically to Jews. He commanded His disciples to stay away from the Gentiles and Samaritans but rather go to the lost sheep of Israel. Why would He command this if Jews and Gentiles are the same?

 

[truthhurts]

The Jews were promised a physical kingdom, the kingdom of heaven in Scripture. The Jews are God's physical people. The sermon on the mount can be viewed as the constitution for living in this earthly kingdom where Christ will reign a thousand years. The spiritual kingdom will be manifest at that time as well, the kingdom of God. Both aspects of the kingdom will be revealed as the spiritual people of God, the church will reign on the earth with Christ over the nations. The kingdom of heaven was at hand but was postponed due to the Jew's rejection of the King.

Jesus told us plainly the Kingdom of God is within us.

 

[Ariel82]

Without Jesus we could never become adopted children of God. That is true salvation.

No keeping if the law can "earn" the right to be called the children of God.

We are Christ's ambassadors in this world and we have diplomatic immunity.

Does that mean we should break the laws of the lands or that we should learn to live by the laws God has established for this world?

 

[gb9]

That pretty much covered easy believism, Osas, & Hyp~~~~~~e.

Some say easy believism is Hyp~~~~~~e.

It's hard to tell anymore..... they seem to be evolving sometimes, don't they?

you mean when you try to get us to listen to things like we are not saved by grace? you mean when you say we should " prove salvation by works " ( that does not open a huge door to be judgemental at all does it? ). you mean when you want us to put denominational doctrine above Biblical teaching.?

guess you are right. many of us ain't listening.

 

[Grace777x70]

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me" John 10:27

"If you love me you will keep my commandments" John 14:15

(I know it is very difficult for many to not call that works salvation and conflate prescriptive and descriptive texts, and throw them out altogether but such is the case when one espouses a truncated gospel)

Anyhow, it is no wonder the lost are called "the children of disobedience"; Ephesians 2:2, and that there is such a state of those "who obey not the Gospel"; 2 Thessalonians 1:8, and it is even among those who profess to be believers. It is 2 Timothy 3:5 in action and a denial of the "all" in 2 Corinthians 3:18.

I agree....But we can view this scripture legalistically or through the grace of God in what Christ has done which is why I believe in preaching and teaching the true grace of God so that we as believers can grow up in Him.


A very big factor in looking at scripture is the "lens" you use to view the scripture.

In the Old Covenant " you had to do or else"..If you do this..then I God will do that.." = conditional on the person performing

New Covenant = Jesus has done it for you which empowers you to "do"

Let's take a look at a common scripture with these 2 mindsets.

Jesus said.." If you love Me, you will keep My commandments"

Old Covenant mindset = conditional on the person "doing"..

So they would read it this way.."IF you love Me you will keep My commandments"..in their mind it's saying.."Keep My commandment and you will prove you love Me."

New Covenant mindset = it's a description of who you are in Christ.

They would see this "Jesus' love is in me so I keep His commandments"..it stems out of relationship and it is not conditional but descriptive of the believer.

1 John 4:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.

 

[truthhurts]

On the sermon of the mount Jesus lays out the spiritual laws and truths that governs the entire world.

We are called to run the race of life according to the rules.

It's about how to live a godly lives, sanctification
Not justification which is by grace alone.

Why do people mix the two?

Maybe because salvation can be used to refer to both?

these are not rules, it is ALL about heart condition...

 

[Stephen63]

Christ died on the cross and rose from the dead to give us His life - not to bring rules to live by. We live by His life in us now and He bears His fruit on us the branches. Get this backwards and we create a religion called Christianity.

Colossians 3:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

This is for those that see, not for those who are blind:

John 15:10

New International Version
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

New Living Translation
When you obey my commandments, you remain in my love, just as I obey my Father's commandments and remain in his love.

English Standard Version
If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and abide in his love.

Berean Study Bible
If you keep My commandments, you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and remain in His love.

Berean Literal Bible
If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

New American Standard Bible
"If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

King James Bible
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.



1 John 5:3

New International Version
In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,

New Living Translation
Loving God means keeping his commandments, and his commandments are not burdensome.

English Standard Version
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.

Berean Study Bible
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome,

Berean Literal Bible
For this is the love of God, that we should keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

New American Standard Bible
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

King James Bible
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.



Luke 6:46

New International Version
"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?
New Living Translation
"So why do you keep calling me 'Lord, Lord!' when you don't do what I say?

English Standard Version
“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?

Berean Study Bible
Why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' but not do what I say?

Berean Literal Bible
And why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' and not do what I say?

New American Standard Bible
"Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?

King James Bible
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?​

 

[PeterJens]

What is obvious here is the sermon on the mount is hard.

I have had times of saying impossibly hard. Yet that is why we need patience, love
self control. perseverance, grace, forgiveness.

Over my life things have changed from maybe this is how life is, to this is life.
This changes what is a word spoken to me as a frail man without Christs love
at work in me, to a man walking in the Spirit and in victory.

It is why we have so many examples in scripture of the way and the walk.
There are many trials and problems along the way, despondency and sometimes
total loss of direction. We can mistake these sometimes as real insight, until
we again go back and humble ourselves before the Lord.

We are a pot, often flawed and failed, who is carrying treasure of the greatest
worth, learning one step at a time to follow. And it is hard, because it has to be
to be transformed from sinner to saint in the likeness of Christ.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Without Jesus we could never become adopted children of God. That is true salvation.

No keeping if the law can "earn" the right to be called the children of God.

We are Christ's ambassadors in this world and we have diplomatic immunity.

Does that mean we should break the laws of the lands or that we should learn to live by the laws God has established for this world?

It means we should learn to live by the life of Christ in us, not fall back to what led us to Him.

 

[PennEd]

What is "hard-believism"?

Some of these Grace PLUS works for Salvation guys believe Jesus is God, And that He rose from the grave. Do Grace believers think they are lost? I know they are wrong on Jesus finished work, but does that mean they are not saved?

I'm honestly not sure.

 

[PeterJens]

What is "hard-believism"?

Some of these Grace PLUS works for Salvation guys believe Jesus is God, And that He rose from the grave. Do Grace believers think they are lost? I know they are wrong on Jesus finished work, but does that mean they are not saved?

I'm honestly not sure.

The great thing I know is God will illuminate the soul if we dwell in His word
in the Spirit with an open heart. Love always has a way of changing ones
perspective.

I remember I got so carried away with Jesus's overwhelming love, I was prepared
to say all where saved, because how could He judge anyone.

You suddenly realise most of our positions are combinations of experiences, insights,
the word, and our teaching. So I trust God knows who are His and work towards
encouraging all to seek His face and know His love and truth in their lives.

 

[notuptome]

What is "hard-believism"?

Some of these Grace PLUS works for Salvation guys believe Jesus is God, And that He rose from the grave. Do Grace believers think they are lost? I know they are wrong on Jesus finished work, but does that mean they are not saved?

I'm honestly not sure.

God in His infinite wisdom did not give us the responsibility to know with certainty as it is a matter between them and the Savior alone.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Issachar92]

By reading this thread I can see ONE thing.
The fact that dispensationalists like to do away with Jesus' words, make phony statements about God having separate earthly and spiritual people, separate salvation plans, Kingdom being postponed.

All of this not true nor scriptural, in the old testament many people who were not physically Jacob's seed still became Israelites and part of the nation, including RUTH one of the most famous converts.
Many people converted in Egypt as well, its all recorded in the old testament, so there goes this idea about Jacob's seed being the earthly people and christians the spiritual people.

Get this: The kingdom of Heaven and kingdom of God is the SAME THING:

Matthew 19:23-24
23 And Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

So there goes that one out the window.

The next falsehood that needs to be adressed is this idea that Paul and Jesus preached a different gospel.
Now in today's world the gospel is reduced to Jesus dying on the cross and being raised from the dead, but surely thats not all that Paul taught?
Jesus preached the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM while He was still alive! lets not forget that, Paul also preached the gospel of the kingdom:

Acts 28:30-31
[FONT=&quot]30 And he lived there two whole years at his own expense,[a] and welcomed all who came to him, [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]31 preaching the kingdom of God and teaching about the Lord Jesus Christ quite openly and unhindered.

Surely, if Paul had been preaching a different Gospel than Jesus, he would have been under a curse he himself spoke about.
You expect the public to believe that Jesus' words to his disciples were all nullified by the arrival of Paul?

Talk about abandoning the cornerstore, christianity is the only world religion that has abandoned its founder and its teachings completely.

I would advice you to reconsider your position if you are a dispensationalist.[/FONT]

 

[FreeNChrist]

By reading this thread I can see ONE thing.
The fact that dispensationalists like to do away with Jesus' words, make phony statements about God having separate earthly and spiritual people, separate salvation plans, Kingdom being postponed.

All of this not true nor scriptural, in the old testament many people who were not physically Jacob's seed still became Israelites and part of the nation, including RUTH one of the most famous converts.
Many people converted in Egypt as well, its all recorded in the old testament, so there goes this idea about Jacob's seed being the earthly people and christians the spiritual people.

Get this: The kingdom of Heaven and kingdom of God is the SAME THING:

Matthew 19:23-24
23 And Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

So there goes that one out the window.

The next falsehood that needs to be adressed is this idea that Paul and Jesus preached a different gospel.
Now in today's world the gospel is reduced to Jesus dying on the cross and being raised from the dead, but surely thats not all that Paul taught?
Jesus preached the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM while He was still alive! lets not forget that, Paul also preached the gospel of the kingdom:

Acts 28:30-31
30 And he lived there two whole years at his own expense,[a] and welcomed all who came to him, 31 preaching the kingdom of God and teaching about the Lord Jesus Christ quite openly and unhindered.

Surely, if Paul had been preaching a different Gospel than Jesus, he would have been under a curse he himself spoke about.
You expect the public to believe that Jesus' words to his disciples were all nullified by the arrival of Paul?

Talk about abandoning the cornerstore, christianity is the only world religion that has abandoned its founder and its teachings completely.

I would advice you to reconsider your position if you are a dispensationalist.

Funny. I didn't see any of that in this thread. Sounds like you have a bone to pick with those evil dispensationalists and were just looking for a place to let it be known. Consider it done.

 

[Issachar92]

Funny. I didn't see any of that in this thread. Sounds like you have a bone to pick with those evil dispensationalists and were just looking for a place to let it be known. Consider it done.

I see you didnt read the thread then. Read for example post by John146 on the first page.
Good stuff. The reason why i addressed dispensationalists is because they are majority of the known grace movement that seek to completely undermine Jesus and only pick out the grace stuff from Paul.
Obviously they wont touch any of the OTHER passages from Paul.