Sermon on the mount - life or legalistic junk

[PeterJens]

Yes, his god clearly doesn't expect much of him

Apart from the obvious intended slight, if I am called to walk in love from the heart
and fulfill the sermon on the mount, which people are saying is the highest height of
expectation, and I believe God can do this in me, and every believer who trusts Him,
then this is a Great King, the Lord of All.

What surprises me is believers who know what Christ has done disbelieve He can
achieve this work in them.

What I discovered is through obedience to Christs commands we are changed.
It is in exercising faith and doing, that the Holy Spirit comes and empowers.

It is odd, but we are not empowered often before we start, but in exercising faith
God provides the means. So without action we cannot forgive, forget, believe,
love, embrace, comfort. In doing these very things we find we are empowered and
changed. So it is not a magic wand and we are perfect, but in exercising His grace,
we become the Children of promise. So I encourage you to act and you will discover
what your heart said is impossible has become possible in Christ.

 

[Ariel82]

we fully agree. and we do so BECAUSE we are saved. not in order to obtain salvation

Then we all agree with one another, praise God for that.

 

[Grace777x70]

Originally Posted by valiant

we fully agree. and we do so BECAUSE we are saved. not in order to obtain salvation

Then we all agree with one another, praise God for that.

Amen...preach and teach the love and grace of God in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection and the believer in Christ will have the nutrients to grow in the grace and knowledge of Christ.

As we have received Christ so are we to walk in Him. Col. 2:6

It is by grace through faith in what Christ has already done that we live and walk in Him. As we have our minds renewed to living by the spirit instead of the flesh - Christ's good works will be manifested to the glory of God as His fruit in and through us to a hurt and dying world that needs to know of His love and grace for them.

 

[PeterJens]

Then we all agree with one another, praise God for that.

Sorry, none of these guys has agreed the sermon on the mount is a guide to the believers
life, rather exactly the opposite.

So if you say we are agreed, they read this that you agree the sermon on the mount means
nothing and is just a sarcastic mockery of legalism, and to those who follow it as a guide
that they accept it as a guide.

So this is just deception and getting the words of conclusion when there is none.

It is the cults that short circuit logic and conclusions like this, with implications
that do not exist, but people will just go along with it.

It is deception.

 

[Ariel82]

Sorry, none of these guys has agreed the sermon on the mount is a guide to the believers
life, rather exactly the opposite.

So if you say we are agreed, they read this that you agree the sermon on the mount means
nothing and is just a sarcastic mockery of legalism, and to those who follow it as a guide
that they accept it as a guide.

So this is just deception and getting the words of conclusion when there is none.

It is the cults that short circuit logic and conclusions like this, with implications
that do not exist, but people will just go along with it.

It is deception.

Tired of your paranoid diatribe.
.they have not said anything you have posted above,
it's all in your mind.

Is it your pride that you refuse to admit you may be wrong about what they think?

Do you have voices claiming to be wise and telling you that what you posted above is what they believe?

Because of you do those voices are lying to you.

If you dont, you have created it all into your mind and just have a spiritual stronghold of anger that has turned into bitterness that blinds you.

 

[John146]

Jesus told us plainly the Kingdom of God is within us.

Yep, the kingdom of God is within us not the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Ariel82]

It's a ridiculous endless cycle of false accusations from both sides.

Grace gang: (talks about how to be saved)
"He is teaching works salvation....we are standing for the TRUE GOSPEL'"

Holiness gang: (talks about what you must do after you are saved)
"They are teaching that people don't have to live godly lives after being saved!!! Aarrgh"

Both statements are lies, but neither gang member seems to listen but just wage war and attack when they see the other gangs color.

Lay down your gang colors and pray before reading or posting.

Then maybe we can have a decent discussion without pride and false accusations.

However beginning to think it might just be futile. Maybe God can work a miracle.

 

[PeterJens]

Tired of your paranoid diatribe.

Ariel - After reading the kind of double speak they use I have good reason
to doubt various contributors contributions.

Now valiant has apparently agreed the sermon on the mount is our guide as
believers.

I have never heard this from g7, but maybe he has amended his belief system,
and is in submission to the law of Christ empowered by the cross.

Why should I believe one sentence or a single expression to eliminate obvious
dispensational declarations of law and condemnation from the sermon on the mount.

I truly hope they agree, I would rejoice at this, I just have been at this point
before and found the exact opposite is true.

So please allow me some grace and caution. And to go over the top against me
is rather going too far. And anger and bitterness, I have none.

It is disappointing you are making such suggestions, but then you can be very sharp
if you want to be.

God bless you.

 

[PeterJens]

It's a ridiculous endless cycle of false accusations from both sides.

Ariel - The reason I posted this thread was because of a comment disowning the
sermon on the mount, which is why I thought I should raise it.

And it was not the holiness camp etc. that was my concern it was this repeated
dismissal of Christs words.

 

[Jimbone]

It is obvious that the Lord elevated the Law of Moses to the new 2.0 version of which He shows the true nature of it. He did this to bury others to show that they needed a Savior and to expose their self-righteousness and that they needed His righteousness.

The Sermon on the mount also shows what His life looks like when it is being expressed. It is a "description" of His life and fruit that gets borne in us the branches.

We don't "produce" these fruit from our human will-power in our flesh and thus become righteous by following the sermon on the mount. This truth is a major stumbling block to the humanistic self-righteousness/holiness religion of self works.

Jesus exposes this self-righteousness for what it really is - an anti-Christ belief system that is destructive to us.

I agree, and I think you do to, that what Peter is describing is not "self" righteousness, it is the righteousness we can ONLY produce once we are save, by His Spirit. I know you understand that because you are always giving credit for any righteousness you may have to Him. That's right and I couldn't agree more. To be honest I think the biggest disconnect here, and I know there are many, but it's man's natural inclination to hate God's ways. It just sounds too harsh to some, but truth is truth no matter how anyone feels about it.

It's like the topic of God pouring ALL His righteous wrath, for our sins, on His Son for our transgressions so we might be saved. Some people can't stomach that idea, and just don't understand how just God's nature truly is and what EXACTLY He did for us. They only like the nice warm infinite love of God, but don't understand that a love that perfect HAS to have another side, and God HATES sin. If God loves babies then He has to hate abortion, If God loves truth then it only follows the He hates lies. We HAVE to let God be God, how much can you love half a person? Even if it's a perfect love, you only half love them.

When we are saved His Spirit comes to help us, to mold us to be more like Him. In my experience, the more I grow in Him, the more He reveals, the more I come to understand, the more I see that, the more I follow His ways, the better it is for me. Not that it's "selfish motivation" or anything, but I can see more and more clearly His design and how good it is. The truth of the matter is the closer you are to the gospel truth, the more upset you are going to make people, outside the Holy Spirit working in them. To be honest I feel the softer you make it, when you try to make it as inoffensive as possible, the further you go that route, the further from truth you get. I'm not sure how far down that path you go before the Gospel stops being the gospel and looses all power, but Jesus said the way was narrow and few find it, so I imagine it's not too far.

 

[valiant]

Maybe it's a failure to communicate?

A dad tells the kid to clean their room...is the kid able to do that, yes or no?

When Peter uses the word "aspirations" he is refering to the good works God created us to do in this life for His glory,

Yet when you use the word "aspirations" you refer to the final resurrection?

Now I am confused.

God's final aspiration for us is fulfilled at the final resurrection, and not until then. Peter likes to deliberately confuse God's aspiration with His present limited aims.

 

[Grace777x70]

We need to have the foundation of the gospel of the grace of Christ down first before we can properly build on anything else.

Psalm 11:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] If the foundations are destroyed, What can the righteous do?"

There is only one foundation and it is Christ Himself. Get this backwards and we create a religion that nullifies the very grace we need to live in this life.

1 Corinthians 3:11 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Watering down the gospel nullifies the grace we need in order for the exchanged life we have in Christ to be manifested by His life in us and it is not a manner of the work of the flesh nor from our human will-power.

The foundation of the gospel of the grace of Christ needs to be established and it is all by grace through faith in what Christ has already done. His life in us will manifest in our lives as we rely on Him only and not in our own righteousness and we are strong in the grace that is only in Christ Jesus.

 

[Ariel82]

Context, context, context.

Jesus taught the sermon on the mount to a Jewish audience. The Jews look for and seek a kingdom on the earth. The church seeks the kingdom of God in heaven. The interpretation does not change but the application of the truths taught are different to each party.

The sermon on the mount is prophecy and will be fulfilled in the millennial reign of Christ and completely fulfilled in the new earth.

Application for the church is that the sermon on the mount establishes high standards of conduct. We must concede that we cannot attain them in this life but they are ours in eternity.

Ro 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another; for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Only person in thread that agrees with your "contributor" from your OP, Peter.

The rest are just reacting to you, the same way you react to G777...gang war style.

 

[PeterJens]

God's final aspiration for us is fulfilled at the final resurrection, and not until then. Peter likes to deliberately confuse God's aspiration with His present limited aims.

Ok. so in reality the sermon on the mount is an impossible objective and goal and not
relevant because we will always fail.

I thought this was your position.

Which I am sure ariel is not aware of, but then agreement is an easy thing to do.

 

[Ariel82]

God's final aspiration for us is fulfilled at the final resurrection, and not until then. Peter likes to deliberately confuse God's aspiration with His present limited aims.

No you just don't like him or how he uses the word aspirations.

You want it to mean " final resurrection, "when read in context and giving Peter the benefit of doubt, we can see it means "good works God created us for."

It's like you want to intentionally misunderstand one another so you will have something to fight about.

 

[Chokmahiel]

Bless the Lord, our rock and our hope. The stone which the builders rejected became the head of the corner.

Matthew 7:12-29

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
[SUP]29 [/SUP]For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

 

[Grace777x70]

I agree, and I think you do to, that what Peter is describing is not "self" righteousness, it is the righteousness we can ONLY produce once we are save, by His Spirit. I know you understand that because you are always giving credit for any righteousness you may have to Him. That's right and I couldn't agree more. To be honest I think the biggest disconnect here, and I know there are many, but it's man's natural inclination to hate God's ways. It just sounds too harsh to some, but truth is truth no matter how anyone feels about it.

It's like the topic of God pouring ALL His righteous wrath, for our sins, on His Son for our transgressions so we might be saved. Some people can't stomach that idea, and just don't understand how just God's nature truly is and what EXACTLY He did for us. They only like the nice warm infinite love of God, but don't understand that a love that perfect HAS to have another side, and God HATES sin. If God loves babies then He has to hate abortion, If God loves truth then it only follows the He hates lies. We HAVE to let God be God, how much can you love half a person? Even if it's a perfect love, you only half love them.

When we are saved His Spirit comes to help us, to mold us to be more like Him. In my experience, the more I grow in Him, the more He reveals, the more I come to understand, the more I see that, the more I follow His ways, the better it is for me. Not that it's "selfish motivation" or anything, but I can see more and more clearly His design and how good it is. The truth of the matter is the closer you are to the gospel truth, the more upset you are going to make people, outside the Holy Spirit working in them. To be honest I feel the softer you make it, when you try to make it as inoffensive as possible, the further you go that route, the further from truth you get. I'm not sure how far down that path you go before the Gospel stops being the gospel and looses all power, but Jesus said the way was narrow and few find it, so I imagine it's not too far.

I agree that grace doesn't leave us in the same place we were found and it is a daily walk in the Lord - trusting in Him to bring about what He has done in our lives.

I agree with you that the hating of God's ways are a sign of an anti-Christ belief system. The hating of God's ways is trying to establish our own righteousness by what we do or don't do.

I vehemently attack the notion that we can be righteous by what we do or don't do. I agree with the truth that we will bear fruits of righteousness as Christ lives in and through us.

Peter believes that we need to do righteous things or we are not saved. That is a perversion of the gospel of the grace of Christ. Peter believes that we become righteous by what we do but maybe he has recently come to believe in Christ as our righteousness only.

I have him on ignore because of his behavior so basically I ignore him until I see repentance to at the very least say what people are really saying without being deceitful in saying something else they are saying.

Unfortunately he comes up with his own "thoughts" on what is being said - no matter how many times you say the complete opposite. He then proceeds to attack and talk about this "belief" as if it is real. People can't have any type of a discussion when this is occurring and it is a complete waste of time and does nothing but cause strife and division.

I pray for him all the time before the Father - that the Lord bless him and reveal Christ to him - we all need Christ to be revealed to us.

 

[Stephen63]

Originally Posted by PeterJens

Sorry, none of these guys has agreed the sermon on the mount is a guide to the believers
life, rather exactly the opposite.

So if you say we are agreed, they read this that you agree the sermon on the mount means
nothing and is just a sarcastic mockery of legalism, and to those who follow it as a guide
that they accept it as a guide.

So this is just deception and getting the words of conclusion when there is none.

It is the cults that short circuit logic and conclusions like this, with implications
that do not exist, but people will just go along with it.

It is deception.

Tired of your paranoid diatribe.
.they have not said anything you have posted above,
it's all in your mind.

Is it your pride that you refuse to admit you may be wrong about what they think?

Do you have voices claiming to be wise and telling you that what you posted above is what they believe?

Because of you do those voices are lying to you.

If you dont, you have created it all into your mind and just have a spiritual stronghold of anger that has turned into bitterness that blinds you.

~~~Notice to the reader: some things aren't as they appear.~~~
​

The kid gloves are off, & the true colors come to the forefront.
Yeah, this is what she's really like.

 

[Ariel82]

Ok. so in reality the sermon on the mount is an impossible objective and goal and not
relevant because we will always fail.

I thought this was your position.

Which I am sure ariel is not aware of, but then agreement is an easy thing to do.

Never heard valiant say that FreeNChrist has given me that impression but his last comment was to do what God commands, so....

If God commands you to follow the guidelines outlined in the sermon on the Mount, most here will not object to it.

They only object If you say that keeping those laws will save you or not keeping those laws will make you lose your salvation.

 

[Ariel82]

~~~Notice to the reader: some things aren't as they appear.~~~
​

The kid gloves are off, & the true colors come to the forefront.
Yeah, this is what she's really like.

Yep it me and Peter talk, he appreciate it.

You don't. That's why me and you, don't talk much.