Sermon on the mount - life or legalistic junk

[truthhurts]

Just so you know, the truth doesn’t have to hurt. Stop fighting against it, and you will find that not only doesn't it hurt, it will set you free from all of that hurt.

I have no hurt friend, your assumptions are typical of the grace /believe only crowd. I have preached the same message for decades and watched hundreds of grace/believe only people finally get set free when the truth they claim is shattered by the way, the truth and the life.

Jesus paid it all and said we must bear fruit! Bearing fruit is not works based conditional salvation.

It comes from enduement of power from on high from the Holy Spirit to destroy the yoke, lift the burden and change the life, just as Jesus did.

 

[Grace777x70]

Hebrews 10:26 can be a stumbling block if we don't take the context in which this passage was written.

Some times well intentioned people take Hebrews 10:26-29 out of context with the book of Hebrews.

We can take an isolated scripture out of it's context and say anything they want. Here is an example in the scripture below - Ex 32:33. Anyone who has ever sinned is blotted out of God's book.

Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.

This is truly stated in the OT but it is not the ultimate statement of truth. The work of Jesus's finished work on the cross trumps what is said in Ex. 32:33.

Obviously we need to view all scripture through the finished work of Christ. We don't take obscure verses and discount the abundance of clear scriptures on what our Lord has done for us.

Hebrews 10 is talking about Jewish people after hearing about Christ for the only sacrifice for sins and rejecting it to go back to the temple sacrifices for their sins.

Hebrews was written a few years before the temple system came crashing down in 70AD when it was trampled by the Roman army.

The "willful sinning" is after hearing the "knowledge" of the truth of Christ's sacrifice - those that go back to the temple sacrifices and do not receive Christ's work by faith - this is the wilful sinning being talked about - the rejection of Christ's sacrifice and blood for the forgiveness of all sins.

This is insulting the Spirit of grace. The Holy Spirit's work is to convict/convince/expose the world of their sin - which is unbelief in Christ's work. John 16:8-9

There is a vast difference between receiving the "knowledge" of the truth and "receiving the truth" which is Christ Himself.

 

[Stephen63]

Yep it me and Peter talk, he appreciate it.

You don't. That's why me and you, don't talk much.

OWW, that really hit me.

 

[FreeNChrist]

I have no hurt friend, your assumptions are typical of the grace /believe only crowd. I have preached the same message for decades and watched hundreds of grace/believe only people finally get set free when the truth they claim is shattered by the way, the truth and the life.

Jesus paid it all and said we must bear fruit! Bearing fruit is not works based conditional salvation.

It comes from enduement of power from on high from the Holy Spirit to destroy the yoke, lift the burden and change the life, just as Jesus did.

Hundreds, eh?

So "TruthHurts" that would make you part of some anti-grace/believe only group I take it. Does your group have a name?

 

[Angela53510]

Yep, the kingdom of God is within us not the kingdom of heaven.

This is totally wrong and based on ignorance.

Matthew is the one who uses "Kingdom of Heaven" because he writes to the Jews. It was an offence to Jews (still is to some!) to use the name of God or even the word God. So "Kingdom of Heaven" is a euphemism for "Kingdom of God, which the other gospel writers use.

"While some believe that the Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven are referring to different things, it is clear that both phrases are referring to the same thing. The phrase “kingdom of God” occurs 68 times in 10 different New Testament books, while “kingdom of heaven” occurs only 32 times, and only in the Gospel of Matthew. Based on Matthew’s exclusive use of the phrase and the Jewish nature of his Gospel, some interpreters have concluded that Matthew was writing concerning the millennial kingdom while the other New Testament authors were referring to the universal kingdom. However, a closer study of the use of the phrase reveals that this interpretation is in error."

Mark and Luke used “kingdom of God” where Matthew used “kingdom of heaven” frequently in parallel accounts of the same parable Compare Matthew 11:11-12 with Luke 7:28; Matthew 13:11with Mark 4:11 and Luke 8:10; Matthew 13:24 with Mark 4:26; Matthew 13:31 with Mark 4:30 and Luke 13:18; Matthew 13:33 with Luke 13:20; Matthew 18:3 with Mark 10:14 and Luke 18:16; and Matthew 22:2 with Luke 13:29. In each instance, Matthew used the phrase “kingdom of heaven” while Mark and/or Luke used “kingdom of God.” Clearly, the two phrases refer to the same thing."

https://www.gotquestions.org/kingdom-heaven-God.html




The phrase “kingdom of Heaven” occurs thirty-two (32) times and only in the Gospel of Matthew. The phrase “kingdom of God” occurs thirty-two (32) times in the Gospel of Luke, the most of any book in the Bible.
An examination of Synoptic parallels will demonstrate that the two phrases refer to the same idea.

• “the kingdom of Heaven is at hand” (Matt. 4:17) || “the kingdom of God is at hand” (Mark 1:15)
  
• “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven” (Matt. 5:3) || “Blessed are the poor, for yours is the kingdom of God” (Luke 6:20)
  
• “Among those born of women there has not risen a greater than John the Baptist, notwithstanding he who is least in the kingdom of Heaven is greater than him.” (Matt. 11:11) || “Among those born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist, but he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than him.” (Luke 7:28)
  
• “the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven” (Matt. 13:11) || “the mysteries of the kingdom of God” (Mark 4:11 cp. Luke 8:10)
  
• “the kingdom of Heaven is like a grain of mustard seed” (Matt 13:31) || “the kingdom of God...is like a grain of mustard seed” (Mark 4:30-31 cp. Luke 13:18-19)
  
• “The kingdom of Heaven is like leaven” (Matt. 13:33) || “the kingdom of God...is like leaven” (Luke 13:20)
  
• “Except you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of Heaven” (Matt. 18:3-4) || “Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein” (Mark 10:15)
  
• “Allow little children, and do not forbid them to come to me, for of such is the kingdom of Heaven.” (Matt. 19:14) || “Allow the little children to come to me, and do not forbid them, for of such is the kingdom of God.” (Mark 10:14 cp. Luke 18:16)
  
• “a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of Heaven” (Matt. 19:23) || “How hardly shall they who have riches enter into the kingdom of God!” (Luke 18:24)

In other words, “kingdom of God” = “kingdom of Heaven.” If this is so, then “God” = “Heaven,” which leads us into my next point."
matthew - What is the difference in the Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God? - Biblical Hermeneutics Stack Exchange

Please see the article if you want to learn the next point!

 

[truthhurts]

Hundreds, eh?

So that would make you part of some anti-grace/believe only group I take it. Does your group gave a name?

Religion and grace always ask how, relationship and truth shows us who.

Grace and truth were realized by Jesus Christ....you cannot have grace without truth and truth without grace.

The problem some of us see routinely is that people are either bound by sin-consciousness or grace and belief alone without sanctification, both of which never add truth to the story.

Grace is the method, not the savior. That is where you and others have fallen down. Because you are blinded by something you call saving grace, you cannot understand enabling and restraining grace. Both of which happen post conversion and propel a person into their call and send. Saving grace theology keeps people bound and standing still in belief and will never get people past the cross. The victory was at the tomb and there is an expectation that you should run your course with Joy and overcome as Jesus did. No simply bask in the glow of Gods love and do nothing.

 

[truthhurts]

This is totally wrong and based on ignorance.

Matthew is the one who uses "Kingdom of Heaven" because he writes to the Jews. It was an offence to Jews (still is to some!) to use the name of God or even the word God. So "Kingdom of Heaven" is a euphemism for "Kingdom of God, which the other gospel writers use.

"While some believe that the Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven are referring to different things, it is clear that both phrases are referring to the same thing. The phrase “kingdom of God” occurs 68 times in 10 different New Testament books, while “kingdom of heaven” occurs only 32 times, and only in the Gospel of Matthew. Based on Matthew’s exclusive use of the phrase and the Jewish nature of his Gospel, some interpreters have concluded that Matthew was writing concerning the millennial kingdom while the other New Testament authors were referring to the universal kingdom. However, a closer study of the use of the phrase reveals that this interpretation is in error."

Mark and Luke used “kingdom of God” where Matthew used “kingdom of heaven” frequently in parallel accounts of the same parable Compare Matthew 11:11-12 with Luke 7:28; Matthew 13:11with Mark 4:11 and Luke 8:10; Matthew 13:24 with Mark 4:26; Matthew 13:31 with Mark 4:30 and Luke 13:18; Matthew 13:33 with Luke 13:20; Matthew 18:3 with Mark 10:14 and Luke 18:16; and Matthew 22:2 with Luke 13:29. In each instance, Matthew used the phrase “kingdom of heaven” while Mark and/or Luke used “kingdom of God.” Clearly, the two phrases refer to the same thing."

https://www.gotquestions.org/kingdom-heaven-God.html

View attachment 168448


The phrase “kingdom of Heaven” occurs thirty-two (32) times and only in the Gospel of Matthew. The phrase “kingdom of God” occurs thirty-two (32) times in the Gospel of Luke, the most of any book in the Bible.
An examination of Synoptic parallels will demonstrate that the two phrases refer to the same idea.

• “the kingdom of Heaven is at hand” (Matt. 4:17) || “the kingdom of God is at hand” (Mark 1:15)
• “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven” (Matt. 5:3) || “Blessed are the poor, for yours is the kingdom of God” (Luke 6:20)
• “Among those born of women there has not risen a greater than John the Baptist, notwithstanding he who is least in the kingdom of Heaven is greater than him.” (Matt. 11:11) || “Among those born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist, but he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than him.” (Luke 7:28)
• “the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven” (Matt. 13:11) || “the mysteries of the kingdom of God” (Mark 4:11 cp. Luke 8:10)
• “the kingdom of Heaven is like a grain of mustard seed” (Matt 13:31) || “the kingdom of God...is like a grain of mustard seed” (Mark 4:30-31 cp. Luke 13:18-19)
• “The kingdom of Heaven is like leaven” (Matt. 13:33) || “the kingdom of God...is like leaven” (Luke 13:20)
• “Except you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of Heaven” (Matt. 18:3-4) || “Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein” (Mark 10:15)
• “Allow little children, and do not forbid them to come to me, for of such is the kingdom of Heaven.” (Matt. 19:14) || “Allow the little children to come to me, and do not forbid them, for of such is the kingdom of God.” (Mark 10:14 cp. Luke 18:16)
• “a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of Heaven” (Matt. 19:23) || “How hardly shall they who have riches enter into the kingdom of God!” (Luke 18:24)

In other words, “kingdom of God” = “kingdom of Heaven.” If this is so, then “God” = “Heaven,” which leads us into my next point."
matthew - What is the difference in the Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God? - Biblical Hermeneutics Stack Exchange

Please see the article if you want to learn the next point!

Luke 17.21 says it best
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

 

[truthhurts]

The Kingdom is coming to earth. This is how people get into the ditch on scriptures when they cant read what it says in gal 5:21 so they have to make up different categories when I already proved earlier that KOG and KOG are used interchangeably by Jesus in the SAME SENTENCE.

check out what Jesus said about the KOG in Luke

 

[FreeNChrist]

Religion and grace always ask how, relationship and truth shows us who.

Grace and truth were realized by Jesus Christ....you cannot have grace without truth and truth without grace.

The problem some of us see routinely is that people are either bound by sin-consciousness or grace and belief alone without sanctification, both of which never add truth to the story.

Grace is the method, not the savior. That is where you and others have fallen down. Because you are blinded by something you call saving grace, you cannot understand enabling and restraining grace. Both of which happen post conversion and propel a person into their call and send. Saving grace theology keeps people bound and standing still in belief and will never get people past the cross. The victory was at the tomb and there is an expectation that you should run your course with Joy and overcome as Jesus did. No simply bask in the glow of Gods love and do nothing.

You've been here all of like 10 minutes and you think you know all about where I and others have fallen down and what we have been blinded by? LOL

Newbies. Gotta love 'em.

 

[truthhurts]

You've been here all of like 10 minutes and you think you know all about where I and others have fallen down and what we have been blinded by? LOL

Newbies. Gotta love 'em.

Do you have a valid point to make or are you just going to use up all the oxygen around me?

 

[Grace777x70]

Personally I don't think we can have Christ without grace anymore then we can have water without the wet. To try to separate them is futile.

I believe that grace/Christ's life in us never leaves us in the condition we were found in and we can grow in this grace that is in Christ Jesus.

There are 2 aspects to grace. The very first thing that Jesus does with the woman caught in adultery is that He gets rid of her accusers - the religious Pharisees that wanted to condemn her because the "bible" said so in the Old Covenant...she was to be stoned. ( the law condemns us )

Jesus was the only one qualified to condemn her but He didn't.


1) acceptance grace - which has nothing to do with our behavior - as seen with the woman caught in adultery. Our Lord beautifully says " I do not condemn you".

It is in knowing you are not condemned that releases the other aspect of grace.

2) now, go and sin no more - this is empowering grace.

Empowering grace enables you to be who the Father sees you are in Christ now because you are a new creation in Him. It's His life and fruit manifesting in our outward lives.


The religious mindset says to the woman caught in adultery - 'Do not sin and we will not condemn you."

The grace of God and the blood of Jesus speaks of better things in this New Covenant of grace! Trying to dictate the fruit of spirit can create a works-righteousness mentality that actually nullifies the very grace of God that is needed for true transformation to occur as we have our minds renewed to what Christ has done.

"Knowing" that we are not condemned in Christ "releases" the life of the empowering grace to transform us. It's all about Christ! It's His fruit being manifested in us!

Acceptance grace which is not based on our behavior needs to be cemented in our hearts before empowering grace is able to be manifested.


What believers in a self-effort/self-performance D.I.Y. holiness/righteousness based mindset and the self-appointed "fruit inspectors" have a very hard time with is the "acceptance grace" part. This just drives them nuts and I understand why. It is scandalous and it "conflicts" with our religious man-made traditions.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Do you have a valid point to make or are you just going to use up all the oxygen around me?

Every one of my posts has made valid points. You, OTOH, not so much.

 

[truthhurts]

Every one of my posts has made valid points. You, OTOH, not so much.

Oh stop, like you are my first christian rodeo with clowns...come to full age....

 

[FreeNChrist]

Oh stop, like you are my first christian rodeo with clowns...come to full age....

Can you admit you made a mistake in confidently asserting that nowhere in Scripture is it said we are saved by grace? Because otherwise you are just another who is guessing at truth and then digging your heels in because you just don't want to be wrong.

 

[dcontroversal]

There is a blending of both......Grace is a position and faith is the means of attaining that position....

In the GRACE you are (position) having been saved out of FAITH (the means) and that not of yourselves (pointed at the faith) it is the GIFT of GOD (the source of faith), not of works lest any man should boast.

Pay particular attention to the fact that FAITH is a spiritual GIFT and God has dealt to every man a measure of FAITH....

 

[Grace777x70]

It is by faith that we have access to this grace in which we stand. Faith receives what grace has already provided. The hearing of Christ brings the faith that His grace has brought with Him.

It is always all about Christ Himself for we have died and our life in hidden with Christ in God.

Romans 5:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

[SUP]2 [/SUP] By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

 

[valiant]

On the sermon of the mount Jesus lays out the spiritual laws and truths that governs the entire world.

We are called to run the race of life according to the rules.

It's about how to live a godly lives, sanctification
Not justification which is by grace alone.

Why do people mix the two?

Maybe because salvation can be used to refer to both?

Yes it about how we have been saved from the guilt of sin - justification - once for all, and how we are being saved from the power and pollution of sin - bit by bit - sanctification.,

 

[truthhurts]

Can you admit you made a mistake in confidently asserting that nowhere in Scripture is it said we are saved by grace? Because otherwise you are just another who is guessing at truth and then digging your heels in because you just don't want to be wrong.

Why should I apologize to you for your lack of understanding truth?

If anyone is digging in heels and causing trouble it's you. Seems to me you are more interested in protecting turf and exerting control than discussing anything.

It would also seem others are pretty much saying what I have been telling you all day.

Faith in what Jesus accomplished saves you not grace.

 

[dcontroversal]

It is by faith that we have access to this grace in which we stand. Faith receives what grace has already provided. The hearing of Christ brings the faith that His grace has brought with Him.

It is always all about Christ Himself for we have died and our life in hidden with Christ in God.

Romans 5:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

[SUP]2 [/SUP] By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Exactly.....post 135....grace is a position accessed by faith (salvation)

 

[PeterJens]

We are not saved by Grace.

This is so true. We are saved because we have repented and realised our state before
God and want a way out to walk righteously. Jesus through the cross gives us forgiveness
and healing with is provided by grace, a gift of life, but it is not grace itself.

Language is strange, because a gift made gracefully is still the gift and not the way it is given.
I think this is where a lot of confusion comes when we want to explain the manner of things
yet it gets confused with the actual object itself.

So people say grace saves us, grace redeems us, where as Christ saves us, and Christ redeems
us, but Christ is full of grace. Grace is an adverb rather than a verb itself. Life perfect is an
adverb and not a verb so you cannot be perfect, but an aspect of something can be perfect.
So you could be perfectly honest, perfectly truthfull. So if someone abreviates this to be perfect
they are meaning in reference to the object of the conversation and not perfection itself.
This has caused so much confusion, in the sermon on the mount where Jesus is saying be perfect
in the love you have for your enemies.