Sermon on the mount - life or legalistic junk

[garee]

Jesus said this about the sermon on the mount

Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.
Matt 7:24-25

I would paraphrase that as below.

Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine “will” and puts them into practice “does” them , is like a wise man who built his house on the Christ’s finished work of faith, who works in us and by His work of faith was His faith made perfect /complete.

It’s simply another way of recognizing a “imputed righteousness”, no man will be found with any righteousness coming from their own will. Its whoever hears His word of faith.... our spiritual food .

For it is God which worketh in you both to "will" and to "do" of his good pleasure. Phi 2:13

Another verse that can help us understand what imputed means. When Christ works in a believer to will and do His good pleasure. Remembering a person cannot separate faith from works. the faith below is in respect to the faith of Christ.

Having the proper name/authority connected to work and faith that was worked in Abraham not from Abraham

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Jam 2:20

If he was justified by His own works the work of Christ faith would be in vain and not establish the righteousness of Christ.

In the above verses both the faith and the works is accredited to Christ. See how Christ’s works made His faith perfect.

Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto Jam 2:22

 

[Ariel82]

??? Translator???

The sermon on the mount is not about imputed righteousness.

Yes we must build upon the foundation of salvation through Christ alone.

However the sermon on the Mount gives us a blueprint of how to build a life out of gold instead of hay.

 

[truthhurts]

you mean when you try to get us to listen to things like we are not saved by grace? you mean when you say we should " prove salvation by works " ( that does not open a huge door to be judgemental at all does it? ). you mean when you want us to put denominational doctrine above Biblical teaching.?

guess you are right. many of us ain't listening.

Grace never saved anyone and it is not found anywhere in the Bible. Grace is God's method in allowing us to chose, by faith, what Jesus on the Cross.

Romans 10.9-10 does not say we are saved by grace it says we are saved by verbal confession that Jesus is Lord and by belief in our hearts that God raised him from the dead.

Jesus said eternal life was not even grace in John 17.1-3

Jesus spoke these things; and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify You, [SUP]2 [/SUP]even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life. [SUP]3 [/SUP]This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

Jesus said that eternal life is to the only true God, through Jesus Christ. You cannot relate to Jesus without faith.

We are not saved by Grace.

 

[truthhurts]

What is "hard-believism"?

Some of these Grace PLUS works for Salvation guys believe Jesus is God, And that He rose from the grave. Do Grace believers think they are lost? I know they are wrong on Jesus finished work, but does that mean they are not saved?

I'm honestly not sure.

Who is talking salvation, I am talking post conversion.

 

[Ariel82]

Faith is a gift from God by His grace.

Grace is unmerited favor.

Meaning God didn't have to give us faith and we didn't earn it.

Romans 12 v. 3

King James 2000 Bible
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God has dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Ephesians 2:8 ►
New International Version
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--

 

[FreeNChrist]

Grace never saved anyone and it is not found anywhere in the Bible. Grace is God's method in allowing us to chose, by faith, what Jesus on the Cross.

Romans 10.9-10 does not say we are saved by grace it says we are saved by verbal confession that Jesus is Lord and by belief in our hearts that God raised him from the dead.

Jesus said eternal life was not even grace in John 17.1-3

Jesus spoke these things; and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify You, [SUP]2 [/SUP]even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life. [SUP]3 [/SUP]This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

Jesus said that eternal life is to the only true God, through Jesus Christ. You cannot relate to Jesus without faith.

We are not saved by Grace.

LOL. Check out my avatar. And add this....

Ephesians 2:5 - "even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ, it is by grace you have been saved."

 

[truthhurts]

By reading this thread I can see ONE thing.
The fact that dispensationalists like to do away with Jesus' words, make phony statements about God having separate earthly and spiritual people, separate salvation plans, Kingdom being postponed.

All of this not true nor scriptural, in the old testament many people who were not physically Jacob's seed still became Israelites and part of the nation, including RUTH one of the most famous converts.
Many people converted in Egypt as well, its all recorded in the old testament, so there goes this idea about Jacob's seed being the earthly people and christians the spiritual people.

Get this: The kingdom of Heaven and kingdom of God is the SAME THING:

Matthew 19:23-24
23 And Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

So there goes that one out the window.

The next falsehood that needs to be adressed is this idea that Paul and Jesus preached a different gospel.
Now in today's world the gospel is reduced to Jesus dying on the cross and being raised from the dead, but surely thats not all that Paul taught?
Jesus preached the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM while He was still alive! lets not forget that, Paul also preached the gospel of the kingdom:

Acts 28:30-31
30 And he lived there two whole years at his own expense,[a] and welcomed all who came to him, 31 preaching the kingdom of God and teaching about the Lord Jesus Christ quite openly and unhindered.

Surely, if Paul had been preaching a different Gospel than Jesus, he would have been under a curse he himself spoke about.
You expect the public to believe that Jesus' words to his disciples were all nullified by the arrival of Paul?

Talk about abandoning the cornerstore, christianity is the only world religion that has abandoned its founder and its teachings completely.

I would advice you to reconsider your position if you are a dispensationalist.

The Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God are not the same thing. The KOH is God's abiding place, The KOG is within us as Jesus stated.

This is how people get into the ditch on scriptures like Gal 5.21 and proclaim that if you do any of things contained in that verse you will never make Heaven. We won't even discuss with these hirelings the fact that Heaven is not even our final destination, although it is preached all over the place it is.

 

[John146]

Metaphoric language..see you are switching the meaning of literal now, before you said if you should apply it to your life.

Now you mean literal versus figurative language.

We could discuss the spiritual meaning of the sermon of the mount.

Literal means, I am to literally do what the Lord is teaching me to do.

29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Do I take this literally?

31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Do I take this literally or is this just a metaphor?

 

[Grace777x70]

See this is the biggest point of contention from my point of view, you say "Peter believes that we need to do righteous things or we are not saved".
Well do you not believe that once you are saved that we will do righteous things? I know very well you do, and I know very well that you also know that God gets that glory because it is only by His Spirit inside of us that we are even capable of good. If God is truly working in us it HAS to produce righteousness, how can it not?

Are you saying that the creator of EVERYTHING can remake you, the atonement of our sins paid for by the sacrifice of the "King of Kings" Jesus Christ, this has provided the ONLY way of reconciliation with our almighty creator, and you can be reborn understanding this, and still live in sin unchanged? I don't. In my experience it DOES do what Peter says it does, and AFTER salvation, BECAUSE of it. If you are saved it WILL produce fruit. I feel you agree with most these points, yet just don't agree with his blunt style of saying it?

I believe that all those really born of God in Christ will have some sort of change happen to them. The grace of God will be the thing that changes us - not us by our own will-power or self-effort of the flesh. That is what I am really saying.

Doing righteous deeds does not make one righteous. Deeds of righteousness are fruits of already being righteous in Christ. Get this backwards like some do and we create a religion of self-works and righteousness. This is called a works-based righteousness which is anti-Christ at it's core. Christ alone is our righteousness.

We all agree to what the Christian life looks like when the life of Christ is being manifested. it's how we get there that is the issue. Some say it's by what we do - others say it's by the grace of God in Christ only that this transformation is shown in our lives. We do not produce fruit. Christ in us bears His fruit on us the branches.

Some of this is true. We do righteous things because of the life of Christ in us but this does not make us righteous noir saved as in making sure we can still go to be with the Lord. Peter believes that we evolve from a sinner to being a saint by what we do. That is not the gospel. That is a works-righteousness mindset that is anti-Christ in it's core belief.

 

[PennEd]

Literal means, I am to literally do what the Lord is teaching me to do.

29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Do I take this literally?

31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Do I take this literally or is this just a metaphor?

So what if your LEFT eye or hand offend? Pray on that for your answer as to whether you should take it literally.

May also have to do with this verse:

Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.

Jesus alluding to a possible allegiance to the anti-christ?

Yeah, I said it!

 

[Yahshua]

If one looks at another out of lust, they should pluck their eye out...

Honestly, the more and more I grow I wouldn't mind doing this so much if necessary. My reasoning being, what profit have I with this body if I believe all things are made new in the end? So surely if I were one who couldn't stop lusting after another person's person then I should remove my eyes and learn to live blind. That way I'm guaranteed that that weakness won't keep me from my reward.

...But of course my flesh screams at the notion lol ("what are you crazy!?!? Your EYES!?!?")


We're told to "count the costs" of being a disciple of the Lord. How literal are we willing to be to take up our cross and follow Him? I'm asking myself this question too.

 

[truthhurts]

LOL. Check out my avatar. And add this....

Ephesians 2:5 - "even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ, it is by grace you have been saved."

And 3 verses later it tells you plainly that Faith saves you...Man was never given saving grace he was given saving faith.

There is a vast difference between what you think is saving grace and enabling, empowering and restraining grace.

 

[PennEd]

Honestly, the more and more I grow I wouldn't mind doing this so much if necessary. My reasoning being, what profit have I with this body if I believe all things are made new in the end? So surely if I were one who couldn't stop lusting after another person's person then I should remove my eyes and learn to live blind. That way I'm guaranteed that that weakness won't keep me from my reward.

...But of course my flesh screams at the notion lol ("what are you crazy!?!? Your EYES!?!?")


We're told to "count the costs" of being a disciple of the Lord. How literal are we willing to be to take up our cross and follow Him? I'm asking myself this question too.

Are you going to pluck out your brain too? Cause you'd still be able to mentally bring up a picture and have lust.

 

[Issachar92]

Literal means, I am to literally do what the Lord is teaching me to do.

29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Do I take this literally?

31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Do I take this literally or is this just a metaphor?

You are playing dumb, or you are dumb.
If you cant tell the difference between a clear metaphor and a literal simple commandment.
I suggest you stop reading all together and go paint rocks or something

 

[Ariel82]

Literal means, I am to literally do what the Lord is teaching me to do.

29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Do I take this literally?

31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Do I take this literally or is this just a metaphor?

The "devil made me do it"

Blaming your hand or eye is just another excuse people make for their sin. Jesus says if that is true then you should cut it off or gouge it out.

However it's NOT true. Your body parts don't control your mind.

Jesus is saying to take responsibility for your actions.

Are parables literally or spiritually understood?

Do you apply the truths found in the parables to your life and understanding of the world?

 

[Issachar92]

The Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God are not the same thing. The KOH is God's abiding place, The KOG is within us as Jesus stated.

This is how people get into the ditch on scriptures like Gal 5.21 and proclaim that if you do any of things contained in that verse you will never make Heaven. We won't even discuss with these hirelings the fact that Heaven is not even our final destination, although it is preached all over the place it is.

The Kingdom is coming to earth. This is how people get into the ditch on scriptures when they cant read what it says in gal 5:21 so they have to make up different categories when I already proved earlier that KOG and KOG are used interchangeably by Jesus in the SAME SENTENCE.

 

[FreeNChrist]

And 3 verses later it tells you plainly that Faith saves you...Man was never given saving grace he was given saving faith.

There is a vast difference between what you think is saving grace and enabling, empowering and restraining grace.

Just so you know, the truth doesn’t have to hurt. Stop fighting against it, and you will find that not only doesn't it hurt, it will set you free from all of that hurt.

 

[dcontroversal]

Whenever we take a part of a scripture out of it's context - we can make it say whatever we want. Jesus was talking about false prophets in Matt. 7:15.

Notice that Jesus said "therefore" in verse 24 - Jesus is talking about the previous verses. Jesus is talking about those self-righteous belief people that are unrighteous. They don't have the righteousness of Jesus - they have attempted to make their own by what "they did or didn't do".

Jesus does not "know" these self-workers that are depending on their own works. Jesus on the other hand said "I know My sheep".

Matthew 7:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

[SUP]24 [/SUP] "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.



Practicing lawlessness/u/unrighteousness are those that think they can create and maintain their own righteousness by what they do or don't do. It's an anti-Christ belief system.

The context, verb tense and the simple verbiage of most scriptures allude the workers for....if they paid attention to any of the three listed they would see the fallacy of working for salvation....Having said that.....

JESUS was bound UNDER the LAW while he walked as a man and the N.T. was not ratified until his death......he is a transitional hinge pin between the LAW/Prophets and the NEW COVENANT and his words must be interpreted in light of this fact........!

 

[Yahshua]

If one looks at another out of lust, they should pluck their eye out...

Are you going to pluck out your brain too? Cause you'd still be able to mentally bring up a picture and have lust.

Man...why do you fight so strongly on behalf of how strong the temptation to sin is, as a believer? and if I said yes I would pluck out my brain (if it meant guarantee that such a sin - if it's a weakness of mine - doesn't keep me from my reward), what would be your response then? "oh well there could still be some residual muscle memory in your body that would in effect still cause you to lust even being brain dead"? And even then I'm more inclined to answer "yes" because I have faith in the promises of the reward afterwards and I'm more and more willing to give up everything to have it.


I'm teasing a little with my sarcasm above but I mean come on PennEd, you're missing the point and inadvertently siding with sin here. Don't be snared by the deceitfulness of sin that says "sin is so strong for even a believer who (a) has been saved by God, (b) reborn in his spirit and (c) possess the Holy Spirit as a guide that it doesn't even matter; they could continue committing lust against a person's person they can't see anymore".

Sin is not stronger than Christ's spirit, which is in you. It wasn't when that same spirit was in his own body 2000 years ago, and it's still not now.

 

[truthhurts]

Are you going to pluck out your brain too? Cause you'd still be able to mentally bring up a picture and have lust.

James 1.13-16 says you are wrong.....you are not some woe and po sinner, that has no control over SIN, if you claim this, you are simply have an un-renewed mind or have no idea what the Bible teaches you about choice over SIN

In fact, much to the chagrin of many "Christians", God told Cain the same thing in Genesis 4...Cain had a choice, even under the old covenant, Cain had a choice and chose wrong.

People think all sorts of things are Sin, that are really still the works of the flesh, because they have not been properly taught to become a living & Holy sacrifice that is acceptable to God and are being transformed by the renewing of their minds...that will then enable the crucifying of the flesh.....Easy believing and grace never teach this...its what old timers call entire sanctification or walking in repentance on a daily basis...it his not works, its Bible and seldom if ever talked about anymore...

Sin is not SIN until the Holy Spirit tells a person it is SIN. This is what James 4.17 means and it has zero to do with sins of omission or commission....

You seem to be stating we are helpless over lust...wrong...you are....furthermore the Bible teaches that if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins...but a terrifying expectation of judgment and fire....

SIN IS NOT AN ACTION! IT IS A CHOICE!