Speaking of Hornet's Nests...

[Depleted]

Many are called, but few are chosen...

Judas walked with Jesus, seen all he had done, witnessed people raised from the dead, yet was a devil, thief and Son of Perdition from the beginning and never did trust the Lord!

And yet he WAS chosen by the Lord. He was chosen to be the son of perdition. All along, Jesus knew this was the guy who would kiss him, and yet was also given the job of watching the money. (Judas was the treasurer for the apostles.) And that too was Judas's choice and God's plan.

That is the kind of God's-choice I don't recommend to anyone.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

A. It proved the robot lameness is nothing but lame.

B. Something changed when the light went on. God showed us light is good. (Light is him.) HE changed us. And we did not walk into light. He dinked it on us. One second we're hiding in a closet in the bottom of a cave, underneath a desk. The next second we're bathed in Light. Dink! (And, again, HE is the light. We are not the light.)

I'd say you are smarter than this, but it seems you are so stuck on believing you had impetus to qualify for salvation by your free will, and have yet to prove that point, so the jury is still out on your smartness.

Alot of assumptions here,. Not facts here

The world loved darkness more than the light, so they did not come to the light

[FONT=&quot]John 3: 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men [/FONT]loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

not only this, when the light comes, they will run from it, because

John 3: 20 [FONT=&quot]For everyone practicing evil hates the [/FONT]light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed

so what are these people going to do when the light come on?

walk away from it

Not walk toward it

whatever it takes to make sure his or her deeds are not exposed.

But you think they just stop in their tracts, forget what they loved, and at that moment are saved, without even repenting or calling out to God.

Yeah, Keep thinking that

 

[PennEd]

i just noticed something yesterday, that when Jesus fed the 5,000 with the 5 loaves and 2 fishes, He commanded that all the pieces be picked up, so nothing was wasted - and the disciples filled 12 baskets of bread.

. . but there were no leftover fish !

Day old bread is edible. Day old fish...not so much.

But I think there's probably a more Spiritual reason why. Do you have any thoughts on it?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why? Because I didn't make a pros and cons list on why I should or shouldn't be saved? Instead the Lord saved me, brought me life, and I simply followed?

I was already saved before I knew I needed saving. We are Lazarus! We had no idea we were dead to decide to come back to life and be saved from death. Or do you also disagree with Romans 5-6?

yeah whatever, Sorry I am not buying it, and now I can only wonder if you are even saved. But I will leave that up to God.

God did not save you UNTIL you repented and trusted in him,. This is what the word says, If you did not at least in your mind (I am not a you have to pray outloud person) talk to God and ask him to apply his salvation to your life so you can have a relationship with him. Then somethihng is wrong.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

About time! So, I'm the first Calvinist you ever listened to long enough to know it has nothing to do with robots or choice?

Yay! We're getting somewhere. lol

Whatever, now you twist my words. You are a bad source and bad representative of your church. That is all I have to say.

But I will open it up. Are their any other people who never came to the poin in their life where they made a dicision to stop trusting self. Stop Walking a path which was leading you straight to hell, and called out to God and said I want what your offering


And if their are. Why did you not do this?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Robots.

Fatalism.

Sure, you already hit your list of what you think I'm against. How about getting past the already-tried-but-didn't-work excuse list? Repeating the same things over and over again still don't make them true.

Whatever, remember you never said yes.. Repent, and call out on the name of the lord..

 

[tourist]

i just noticed something yesterday, that when Jesus fed the 5,000 with the 5 loaves and 2 fishes, He commanded that all the pieces be picked up, so nothing was wasted - and the disciples filled 12 baskets of bread.

. . but there were no leftover fish !

You always come up with interesting points that I have never considered. As for the fish, maybe they had tartar sauce or at least a lemon. A single lemon would suffice for a crowd of this size using the power of multiplication of Jesus. No hush puppies but then that was not Long John Silver's feeding the multitudes. Coleslaw.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

YOU! Out of your own "free will!" That's what this has been about for two years.

(Yeesh!)

Nope., It has not been about that

Get over yourself girl

I did not chose God, I had NOTHING TO OFFER GOD. How could I chose him?

of course, you do not care. God chose you so your special. Your precious. Your not one of those people God chose to never allow the opportunity to be saved.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You always come up with interesting points that I have never considered. As for the fish, maybe they had tartar sauce or at least a lemon. A single lemon would suffice for a crowd of this size using the power of multiplication of Jesus. No hush puppies but then that was not Long John Silver's feeding the multitudes. Coleslaw.

I wonder if the events of the next day had anything to do with it, the bread which came down from heaven, where whoever eats of it will never die.

ie, bread alone, verses every word which procedes from the mouth of God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

of course, you do not care. God chose you so your special. Your precious. Your not one of those people God chose to never allow the opportunity to be saved.

if people have not figuired it out. It is not the predestination aspect I really have an issue with, it is the DOUBLE predestination (predestined to hell with no opportunity or change to be saved) aspect I have a MAJOR issue with.

 

[tourist]

I wonder if thge events of the next day had anything to do with it, the bread which came down from heaven, where whoever eats of it will never die.

As I have said I had never noticed that there were no leftover fish. That particular detail was included for a purpose for our spiritual edification but as fo the reason is for this I don't have a clue.

 

[Depleted]

The many and called few are chosen parable. Matthew 22

Correct me if I am wrong, but this makes me think of Israel.

The man makes a wedding feast for his son. He chose and invited (called) a group of folks to begin with (Israel) but they would not come and treated his messengers badly (just like they did all the prophets and preachers who talked about Jesus and even Jesus). They were chosen but would not come.

So then he opens it up to all…has his messengers go out into the highways and bi-ways to invite any that would come (Jews, Gentiles, whoever). So it is filled and then there is a man there without a wedding garment on (apparently he didn’t come in by the door, but came in by some other way).

Jesus said, if I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me, but that doesn’t mean that all men will come. We also know that there is only one way or door to God and that is through Jesus. Although, God will draw all men unto him some will flatly reject the call and others may try to go around to get in some other way (self- righteousness…etc. any other way than Jesus). They still had a choice yet chose some other way…which won’t work either. We can either walk away and turn it down, or accept the invitation and come in through Jesus or not at all.

Well that’s just my thoughts on that parable, anyhow.

Yup, yup, yup. Always choice is involved. Seriously, I think this is something you assume Reformed don't believe, but we really, really do. It would not be fair to be given no choice, and then condemned for not making a choice, because we couldn't make a choice.

We were given choice. We got the calligraphy, hand-delivered invitation, along with everyone else. But what was the difference between those who came and those who didn't? The only choice left to us -- come or die! Who is going with, "Ooo, ooo! I'll take die!"? The smart! The brains. The top dogs of society! (And as hard as life has been with the Lord, I still get why people choose not to follow him. I just can't imagine how awful that hopeless life would be without him.)

God chose the weak, the foolish, the stupid to confound them. 15,000 battle-ready Midianites came in to sack Israel, and God chose the dude hiding in a threshing basin to lead the way. God chose Gideon!

God always chooses the lesser and loves them to greatness -- his greatness.

His choice!

Me? I'm just overwhelmed at his banquet and thankful he found me for the feast.

 

[1ofthem]

Luke 14:25 Now great crowds accompanied him, and he turned and said to them,26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.27 Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple.28 For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it?29 Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him,30 saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish.’31 Or what king, going out to encounter another king in war, will not sit down first and deliberate whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand?32 And if not, while the other is yet a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks for terms of peace.33 So therefore, any one of you who does not renounce all that he has cannot be my disciple.

Did you? Did you really do that? When the Lord called you, did you realize you would alienate your family? Did you realize, your life just got a lot harder, because it stopped being all about you? And most important, did you start building a tower realizing you really don't have what it takes to build it?

Personally, it took a while before I realized I had no idea how to build the Lord's tower, and I didn't have the foundation or strength to complete it anyway. He IS my strength. He IS my supplier. He IS my foundation! He IS my tower!

I had no idea of any of this going in.

So did you have that information coming in or is that the cost of sanctification? Not the cost of regeneration, or redemption.

We were already justified, born again, redeemed, and adopted before we ever hit, "There's a tower to be built too?"

I agree with some of this. I didn't know all things and still don't, but I did know that I had to give him my whole heart. So yeah when he called me I knew I had to turn my life over to him. So I did kind of measure the pro's and con's which there were no con's or real costs actually. I could continue to live for myself and continue on walking down the road of destruction, or I could accept his call, turn my life over to him, and take his hand and be redeemed.

 

[Depleted]

Hey sis,

Behold I stand at the door and knock. A person has to chose to open the door to let him in, for him to come dine with them. And I do think it relates to being saved, Jesus is saying he is comming to have a relationship with his creation, But he is not going to knock the door down and force us to be his children.

Chose this day who you are going to serve. This is not salvation? And even if it is not (if any of these are not) it still shows FREE WILL is in action. Which is the point
as for the other, A person has to chose to come to Jesus, and he will by no means cast out. I believe God chose based on foreknowledge (he knew who would freely chose to come) that is the basis of election. Aghain, they had to chose

and I agree, No one CAN COME, because of God did not come and convict us and draw us, We would never come, Yet he drew many people who decided to never come completely (judas is one example) I do not thing God overrules our free will and causes us to do what we would never desire. Or he would prevent a person from ever having the hope of salvation. (Many are called, few are chosen comes to mind)


Yes salvation belongs to God. And he can chose how and why he gives it, what did he say was his will? “All who see and believe in him will have eternal life,(john 6)

God is God, if he wishes to offer people his gift, and allow people the freedom to chose to say yes God I want it, or no God take your gift and shove it, he has that right. It does nto take ANYTHING away from his soverignty for him to do this. God makes the rules. Not us.

He is the door! How are we keeping him out?

Choose this day? No. That was not salvation. That was what the people who were already saved by God does with that salvation. THAT is sanctification!

As for based on foreknowledge? Romans talks about predestination in that same paragraph. Does predestination get tossed out because foreknowledge is there? Look at Jacob and Esau. Who was the better choice? Esau! The kid who wasn't hung up on the power of birthrights. The kid who did not kill his brother after his brother was sleazy. The kid who embraced his brother upon his return, despite Jacob had the herds, wives and kids go in front of him to see if Esau would kill them. And yet, God chose to love Jacob and hate Esau before they were even born.

God foreknows us all right. He saves us despite what he knows about us! He even changed Jacob into a man after God's own heart, and it took a very long time. lol

 

[Depleted]

By the way sis, I love my calvanist brothers and sisters

I am excersized by the subject because I think it Gives God a bad name and destroyes his perfect character. And leads right into the lie of satan (basically God does not want a relationship wiht you. He wants you to be his puppets) It is subtle, but it is there

puppets = robots.

Both have already been disproved.

Can you quit with the usual arguments after they are disproved?

Free for any new arguments, just tired of rehashing the same ones that haven't worked.

 

[Depleted]

Whom God foreknew those he predestined.

God knew me before I was in my mothers womb, he knew every hair on my head, he knew my ways, and he knew my every thoughts.

Yes he did. And they were no different than anyone else.

Gen. 6:5 [FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]The [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord[/FONT][FONT=&quot] saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.[/FONT]

Yet he still chose you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

He is the door! How are we keeping him out?

We are not keeping him out. He does not want to force a relationship on you, How well do forced relationships work? Ou thats right, they don’t

He wants a real living brreathingn relationship with you. Thats why he knocks, if you say no,. He will go to the next door. So on and so forth.

Choose this day? No. That was not salvation. That was what the people who were already saved by God does with that salvation. THAT is sanctification!

They still had free will to chose. NEXT!

As for based on foreknowledge? Romans talks about predestination in that same paragraph. Does predestination get tossed out because foreknowledge is there? Look at Jacob and Esau. Who was the better choice? Esau! The kid who wasn't hung up on the power of birthrights. The kid who did not kill his brother after his brother was sleazy. The kid who embraced his brother upon his return, despite Jacob had the herds, wives and kids go in front of him to see if Esau would kill them. And yet, God chose to love Jacob and hate Esau before they were even born.

God foreknows us all right. He saves us despite what he knows about us! He even changed Jacob into a man after God's own heart, and it took a very long time. lol

1st, God chose to love Isreal, and hate edom (the words are written in Micah, and spoke of nations not babies)

2nd. Jacob was prety evil himself

3rd. God was chosing a nation, not the salavtion of a kid, so it does not even fit the conterxt of our discussion

4th. God knew he woudl chose Jacob, to later prove to Isreal he did nto chose THEM because of birthright, or the will of men, but by his own will.

Yeah god foreknew you. He knew you before you were in his mothers womb, David understood it, why can’t you?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

puppets = robots.

Both have already been disproved.

Can you quit with the usual arguments after they are disproved?

Free for any new arguments, just tired of rehashing the same ones that haven't worked.

You have not disproven crap. And you have no idea how to discuss with people. All you do is attack them, then make general statements which is not true.

 

[Depleted]

Nope this is not true. A legalist who tries to earn salvation choses God. I could not chose God. I had no ability.

it is only true if I had the power to save myself

GOD GAVE ME THE ABILITY TO become his child. He chose to ALLOW me the opportunity to be saved, He chose to do the WORK required so I could be saved.

I could not chose God. I had nothing to offer God.

Did God give you the ability to be born the first time too? Does an adoptee choose his/her parents? Is there like a catalog, and they go with, "I'll take these." Because I always thought it was the adults who choose whom to adopt.

(BTW "allow" strips sovereign down to the underling. It is no longer in the hands of the sovereign. It's in the hands of the underling. Therefore there is no sovereign. It becomes "rule by mob.")

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes he did. And they were no different than anyone else.

Gen. 6:5 The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Yet he still chose you.

He loved the word. So much he died for them

He chose to save those who would believe in him. Those who reject him have no one to blame but themselvers. he died for
them also. its not his fault they rejected him, that have no one to blame but themselves.