Stonesoffire: Genesis study
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"Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: "See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him."
Jude 1:14
"And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of ⌈His⌉ holy ones to execute judgement upon all, and to destroy ⌈all⌉ the ungodly.
And to convict all flesh of all the works ⌈of their ungodliness⌉ which they have ungodly committed, And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners ⌈have spoken⌉ against Him."
Book of Enoch, Book I, 1:9
M
Can I throw a spanner in the works about this darkness and light thingy.
When people talk about darkness and light, they automatically think of visible light.
But God didn't just create visible light, He created the entire spectrum of light both
visible and invisible to us, X-ray, ultraviolet and all the others.
See this about light spectrums.
https://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/science/toolbox/emspectrum1.html
https://science-edu.larc.nasa.gov/EDDOCS/Wavelengths_for_Colors.html
There are many wave lengths of light we cannot see with human eyes, although
some animals can see what we can't.
There are also bible verses which talk about and darkness and unapproachable
light in relation to God.
1 Timothy 6:16 NKJV
[16] who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man
has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.
1 Kings 8:12-13 NKJV
[12] Then Solomon spoke: "The LORD said He would dwell in the dark cloud. [13] I have
surely built You an exalted house, And a place for You to dwell in forever."
Psalm 97:2-5 NKJV
[2] Clouds and darkness surround Him; Righteousness and justice are the foundation
of His throne. [3] A fire goes before Him, And burns up His enemies round about.
[4] His lightnings light the world; The earth sees and trembles. [5] The mountains
melt like wax at the presence of the LORD, At the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.
I believe that God created all light, all forms of radiation (that's what light is as far as human
knowledge allows for) both visible and invisible to us. Looking at it from this perspective its
not hard to see where our perception of darkness comes from - to us it may just be invisible
light.
Then there is also darkness as we perceive it created assigned to the laws of nature, which are
set in place by God. In that a big ball of light in the sky gives daylight to us and a smaller
mirrow reflected ball of light gives us some light at night time.
Genesis 1:16-19 NKJV
[16] Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light
to rule the night. He made the stars also. [17] God set them in the firmament of the heavens
to give light on the earth, [18] and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the
light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. [19] So the evening and the morning
were the fourth day.
Hopefully folks can see what I mean, there is the created light consisting of all spectrums of the
band width created by God - although maybe there are even more types of light we have not
discovered yet.
Then there are the laws of creation set in place by God which give us day and night, shadows and
bright open spaces etc.
A bigger mystery still, is how a pure holy God of light wrapped himself up and hid
himself in the small body of a tiny baby - all for our benefit.
When people talk about darkness and light, they automatically think of visible light.
But God didn't just create visible light, He created the entire spectrum of light both
visible and invisible to us, X-ray, ultraviolet and all the others.
See this about light spectrums.
https://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/science/toolbox/emspectrum1.html
https://science-edu.larc.nasa.gov/EDDOCS/Wavelengths_for_Colors.html
There are many wave lengths of light we cannot see with human eyes, although
some animals can see what we can't.
There are also bible verses which talk about and darkness and unapproachable
light in relation to God.
1 Timothy 6:16 NKJV
[16] who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man
has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.
1 Kings 8:12-13 NKJV
[12] Then Solomon spoke: "The LORD said He would dwell in the dark cloud. [13] I have
surely built You an exalted house, And a place for You to dwell in forever."
Psalm 97:2-5 NKJV
[2] Clouds and darkness surround Him; Righteousness and justice are the foundation
of His throne. [3] A fire goes before Him, And burns up His enemies round about.
[4] His lightnings light the world; The earth sees and trembles. [5] The mountains
melt like wax at the presence of the LORD, At the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.
I believe that God created all light, all forms of radiation (that's what light is as far as human
knowledge allows for) both visible and invisible to us. Looking at it from this perspective its
not hard to see where our perception of darkness comes from - to us it may just be invisible
light.
Then there is also darkness as we perceive it created assigned to the laws of nature, which are
set in place by God. In that a big ball of light in the sky gives daylight to us and a smaller
mirrow reflected ball of light gives us some light at night time.
Genesis 1:16-19 NKJV
[16] Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light
to rule the night. He made the stars also. [17] God set them in the firmament of the heavens
to give light on the earth, [18] and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the
light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. [19] So the evening and the morning
were the fourth day.
Hopefully folks can see what I mean, there is the created light consisting of all spectrums of the
band width created by God - although maybe there are even more types of light we have not
discovered yet.
Then there are the laws of creation set in place by God which give us day and night, shadows and
bright open spaces etc.
A bigger mystery still, is how a pure holy God of light wrapped himself up and hid
himself in the small body of a tiny baby - all for our benefit.
A
"Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: "See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him."
Jude 1:14
"And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of ⌈His⌉ holy ones to execute judgement upon all, and to destroy ⌈all⌉ the ungodly.
And to convict all flesh of all the works ⌈of their ungodliness⌉ which they have ungodly committed, And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners ⌈have spoken⌉ against Him."
Book of Enoch, Book I, 1:9
However if you want to accept the supposed book of Enoch as God's words/scripture it's your choice.
I believe it NOT to be of divine origin.
It speaks of Jesus. He's the light. And I believe this is the light spoken of in the beginning of Genesis. But there don't seem to be too many who agree. But hey, we don't agree on the literal meaning all the time. Why should we believe the same on the spiritual meaning? Although I think we all do probably agree that there IS a spiritual meaning to it all (even if He hasn't shown us in places), because: the word is Spirit because God is Spirit.
A
Genesis 2:7
Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
Acts 17:25
nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things;
Genesis 1:30
and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food"; and it was so.
Genesis 6:17
"Behold, I, even I am bringing the flood of water upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life, from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall perish.
Job 27:3
For as long as life is in me, And the breath of God is in my nostrils,
Job 33:4
"The Spirit of God has made me, And the breath of the Almighty gives me life.
Isaiah 42:5
Thus says God the LORD, Who created the heavens and stretched them out, Who spread out the earth and its offspring, Who gives breath to the people on it And spirit to those who walk in it,
Isaiah 57:16
"For I will not contend forever, Nor will I always be angry; For the spirit would grow faint before Me, And the breath of those whom I have made.
Psalm 104:29
You hide Your face, they are dismayed; You take away their spirit, they expire And return to their dust.
Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
Acts 17:25
nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things;
Genesis 1:30
and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food"; and it was so.
Genesis 6:17
"Behold, I, even I am bringing the flood of water upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life, from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall perish.
Job 27:3
For as long as life is in me, And the breath of God is in my nostrils,
Job 33:4
"The Spirit of God has made me, And the breath of the Almighty gives me life.
Isaiah 42:5
Thus says God the LORD, Who created the heavens and stretched them out, Who spread out the earth and its offspring, Who gives breath to the people on it And spirit to those who walk in it,
Isaiah 57:16
"For I will not contend forever, Nor will I always be angry; For the spirit would grow faint before Me, And the breath of those whom I have made.
Psalm 104:29
You hide Your face, they are dismayed; You take away their spirit, they expire And return to their dust.
A
A bit of science into the mix....
A photon (light) is both matter and energy.
Without the photons emitted from the Sun there would be no life on Earth for plants and algae use the Light energy to make food via photosynthesis. (well we might have live near the deep sea trenches)
Anyway I was wonder if God didn't set this physical example to demonstrate how we would have no spiritual life with out His Son, Jesus Christ.
A photon (light) is both matter and energy.
Without the photons emitted from the Sun there would be no life on Earth for plants and algae use the Light energy to make food via photosynthesis. (well we might have live near the deep sea trenches)
Anyway I was wonder if God didn't set this physical example to demonstrate how we would have no spiritual life with out His Son, Jesus Christ.
A
You would have seen it in one of my first two posts if you had read them.
Where I said there are places He doesn't say are good. And all of them are separations.
Where I said there are places He doesn't say are good. And all of them are separations.
I don't know if I would make the leap to say darkness or night is BAD, just observed that God did not call it good there. Just that the Light was good,
Stonesoffire, here is the study I promised to post for you. I know you have seen the spirit of the word - you know the word is spirit because God is Spirit - and I know you pursue the spirit of the words.
It is such a new and different way of understanding that...we flash in and out of it. This is the flesh, that has a default to always go back to the literal, struggling against the Spirit and the spirit of the words. It's not the literal sense (or the letter of the word) that avails us - it is the spirit of the word that avails us.
If ever there was a place where the spirit of the word matters, it is in the beginning of the book of Genesis. The very fact that the light and darkness first spoken of are not literal is seen by them being talked about many days before the sun and moon are created. In fact, the sun and the moon are pictures or copies of the spiritual reality, and we know this because God created it all to show His glory. John testifies to the beginning being the spirit of the matter in the beginning of his book. It's something else to look up if you would like.
I know this will not be well received by most and they will insist on the letter rather than the spirit, but we will just ignore that and study this.
When I looked up the definitions, I did not necessarily include the complete list because some definitions have to be discarded because they are literal and we are being shown spirit here. Also, they had to fit within the context of the spiritual understanding we are seeking here. You can do the study yourself with a concordance, and the Spirits help. In fact, you should. Because seeing the roots helps to a rounder understanding and I am not sure I have included all of the roots here. As I went along, and as I began to understand by the Spirits help, I chose the words that fit the spiritual context He was showing me. So it will help to look it up yourself and meditate on it.
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Keep in mind that this is our beginning, our story, but not the beginning of God (who has no beginning) and not the beginning of angels, who already existed with God.
Beginning is only listed in the appendix, because it is assumed that we all know what beginning means. I checked on beginnings to see if there was anything that might be helpful.
Beginnings - 7218- from a root word that means: to shake, as in the head, as in: the part that turns away.
Created - 1254 - To absolutely create; qualified to cut down a wood (a tree).
This is the spiritual sense I received: In the shaking of the part that turned away (satan and those who followed him are the part that turned away), God cut down a tree. (A lofty and proud tree - satan). He cast from His Presence due to rebellion and this created the place where His Presence was, and the other place, where His presence was not. (Heaven and earth).
It may seem I have jumped the gun at this above point, but you will see now that I have not because of the awfulness of this other place.
And the earth was without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
without form -8414 - To lie waste, a desolation, a worthless thing, confusion, empty place, waste, nothing, wilderness.
void - 922 - empty, vacuity, an undistinguishable ruin, emptiness, void.
This is the spiritual sense I received: And the earth (the place where He was not), was a desolate, worthless thing of confusion. It was an undistinguishable ruin.
When jonteel asked us what was a place God did not create, most did not understand, but a few had this answer: darkness. Yes, there is a verse where God says, I create the darkness. This creation in the very beginning of Genesis is a negative creation, caused by casting something or someone from His presence. It is not the positive creation of: let there be...
Those people were able to, at least even just dimly, see that hell will also be a negative creation. So it can be said that He created darkness, but in another sense, it can be said He did not. You have to see it spiritually to understand.
If ever there was a place that could be called the outer darkness, this in the beginning of Genesis was that outer darkness. No light, so no three dimensionalness, thus no bodies. It is light that makes three dimensionalness by its' effects on things. Light and shadow create the three dimensionalism. Without them there is the undistinguishableness of "void."
And we know it is awful also because the demons are terrified to be cast there again. They begged to be in the body of a pig before being cast there. They like a human body better but will settle for anything before that place.
And darkness was upon the face of the deep.
darkness - 2822 - misery, destruction, death, ignorance, sorrow, wickedness.
face - 6440 - The face (as the part that turns) against anger + battle.
deep - 8415 - an abyss, deep place.
This is the spiritual sense I received: And misery and wickedness and death were upon the part that turned away( in anger and battle against God) and were in the abyss.
And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
face - 6440 again.
waters - 4325 - water, by euphemism - urine, semen, piss, wasting.
The spiritual sense: And the Spirit of God moved upon the part that turned away - the waste products He calls them.
Here is where it begins to turn around and positive creations behave to take a break so am posting this in case I get kicked offline while I'm gone. Be back very soon.
It is such a new and different way of understanding that...we flash in and out of it. This is the flesh, that has a default to always go back to the literal, struggling against the Spirit and the spirit of the words. It's not the literal sense (or the letter of the word) that avails us - it is the spirit of the word that avails us.
If ever there was a place where the spirit of the word matters, it is in the beginning of the book of Genesis. The very fact that the light and darkness first spoken of are not literal is seen by them being talked about many days before the sun and moon are created. In fact, the sun and the moon are pictures or copies of the spiritual reality, and we know this because God created it all to show His glory. John testifies to the beginning being the spirit of the matter in the beginning of his book. It's something else to look up if you would like.
I know this will not be well received by most and they will insist on the letter rather than the spirit, but we will just ignore that and study this.
When I looked up the definitions, I did not necessarily include the complete list because some definitions have to be discarded because they are literal and we are being shown spirit here. Also, they had to fit within the context of the spiritual understanding we are seeking here. You can do the study yourself with a concordance, and the Spirits help. In fact, you should. Because seeing the roots helps to a rounder understanding and I am not sure I have included all of the roots here. As I went along, and as I began to understand by the Spirits help, I chose the words that fit the spiritual context He was showing me. So it will help to look it up yourself and meditate on it.
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Keep in mind that this is our beginning, our story, but not the beginning of God (who has no beginning) and not the beginning of angels, who already existed with God.
Beginning is only listed in the appendix, because it is assumed that we all know what beginning means. I checked on beginnings to see if there was anything that might be helpful.
Beginnings - 7218- from a root word that means: to shake, as in the head, as in: the part that turns away.
Created - 1254 - To absolutely create; qualified to cut down a wood (a tree).
This is the spiritual sense I received: In the shaking of the part that turned away (satan and those who followed him are the part that turned away), God cut down a tree. (A lofty and proud tree - satan). He cast from His Presence due to rebellion and this created the place where His Presence was, and the other place, where His presence was not. (Heaven and earth).
It may seem I have jumped the gun at this above point, but you will see now that I have not because of the awfulness of this other place.
And the earth was without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
without form -8414 - To lie waste, a desolation, a worthless thing, confusion, empty place, waste, nothing, wilderness.
void - 922 - empty, vacuity, an undistinguishable ruin, emptiness, void.
This is the spiritual sense I received: And the earth (the place where He was not), was a desolate, worthless thing of confusion. It was an undistinguishable ruin.
When jonteel asked us what was a place God did not create, most did not understand, but a few had this answer: darkness. Yes, there is a verse where God says, I create the darkness. This creation in the very beginning of Genesis is a negative creation, caused by casting something or someone from His presence. It is not the positive creation of: let there be...
Those people were able to, at least even just dimly, see that hell will also be a negative creation. So it can be said that He created darkness, but in another sense, it can be said He did not. You have to see it spiritually to understand.
If ever there was a place that could be called the outer darkness, this in the beginning of Genesis was that outer darkness. No light, so no three dimensionalness, thus no bodies. It is light that makes three dimensionalness by its' effects on things. Light and shadow create the three dimensionalism. Without them there is the undistinguishableness of "void."
And we know it is awful also because the demons are terrified to be cast there again. They begged to be in the body of a pig before being cast there. They like a human body better but will settle for anything before that place.
And darkness was upon the face of the deep.
darkness - 2822 - misery, destruction, death, ignorance, sorrow, wickedness.
face - 6440 - The face (as the part that turns) against anger + battle.
deep - 8415 - an abyss, deep place.
This is the spiritual sense I received: And misery and wickedness and death were upon the part that turned away( in anger and battle against God) and were in the abyss.
And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
face - 6440 again.
waters - 4325 - water, by euphemism - urine, semen, piss, wasting.
The spiritual sense: And the Spirit of God moved upon the part that turned away - the waste products He calls them.
Here is where it begins to turn around and positive creations behave to take a break so am posting this in case I get kicked offline while I'm gone. Be back very soon.
Some people simply take the sons of God and daughters of men to mean descendants of Seth (God worshipers) and descendants of Cain (self worshipers, worldly, pagans, idolaters etc) respectively. Meaning, it has nothing to do with angels having sexual intercourse with human beings, but intermarriage between what we would now consider to be unequally yoked people
So they don't at all relate this story to the giants there were in those days...
I'm going to read the passage this morning, because something is tugging at the back of my mind that there is a verse somewhere in there that would not make sense to me if they were mere humans...I'll be back.
Could you define "a false reading of the bible" for me?
Admittedly, I don't know what articles you guys are referring to, but are you saying that there are no people descended from Seth?
Forgot to reassure you yesterday when I read your post that you don't have to worry - (in regards to the dna thought)- I know these are all just ideas and good guesses until or if we find the scriptures to relate.
Ah...so you are relating Jesus, the uncreated light, to eternal life, which He also is...no, that falls apart for me.
I guess I'm not understanding.
I thought you were jumping across the ways He is described (which I do too) and thinking: The Word/Lamb/Light/Eternal Life.
So I started to follow it but my mind lost the thread I had snatched. It occurs to me this may be because we are viewing souls differently, like maybe you think souls live forever and I think they don't unless they receive His Spirit...
I guess I'm not understanding.
I thought you were jumping across the ways He is described (which I do too) and thinking: The Word/Lamb/Light/Eternal Life.
So I started to follow it but my mind lost the thread I had snatched. It occurs to me this may be because we are viewing souls differently, like maybe you think souls live forever and I think they don't unless they receive His Spirit...