The antichrist

PlainWord · May 22, 2016

I agree completely with everything you said. However, I have to totally and respectfully disagree with your conclusions. Here's why.

John refers to the great false religion as "MYSTERY" Babylon. He calls it a mystery for the very reason you cite. Islam did not exist in his day. However, the Torah/Talmud and the customs of Judaism are pretty much the same today as they were in the days of John, therefore they would not be a mystery to him.

Keep in mind also that the WOMAN of Rev 12, is Israel. This is clear by the description and context. Therefore the Harlot cannot be the same woman as the one shown in Rev 12. Also, please remember that the "Great City" of the Harlot was located in the wilderness. Jerusalem is not in the wilderness. John did not know the location because he had never been there. John knew Jerusalem well. When the Children of Israel left Egypt, where did they go and wander around for 40 years? Wilderness? Where is Mecca? Wilderness?

There are many clues about the Harlot and the 7 headed (7 historical empires) which carries the Harlot which do not fit Israel the least of which is the fact that Israel is one nation, not 7. Here are other clues that do not fit.

Conversely, Islam fits every single one of these main clues.

1.Supported by a succession of 7 (separate) World Powers throughout history
2.“Sits on”/Supported by - evil 8th Satanic Empire related to the previous 7.
3.Biggest (or oldest) False Religion on earth or both
4.Many peoples from many nations worship her
5.All nations deceived by her sorcery
6.Is also a “Great City”
7.Insults true God
8.Similar to former (original) Babylon
9.Located in a Wilderness/Desert
10.John did not seem to recognize her or her location
11.Kings of Earth fornicate (worship with) or serve her
12.Makes war with the Lamb
13.Kills Saints and Prophets
14.Beheads those who won’t convert
15.Near a busy sea (shipping) lane
16.Ships became rich from selling her “goods”
17.Merchants of the Earth weep at her demise
18.They mourn by throwing dust on their heads
19.Will be attacked and destroyed by the 8th Kingdom who carries her
20.Will be utterly burned with fire (nuked?)

garee · May 24, 2016

666 is number of natural unconverted man, as one of the kinds of the beast of the field, nothing more and nothing less..

The word beast includes any of the creatures formed from the dust in which God breathed into the breath of life. It is the same description of the harlot..

The woman in Revelation 12 is the bride of Christ made up of born again Jews, as well as Gentiles. The incorruptible word of God is the qualifier. The flesh of the beast ,man has nothing to do with the bride of Christ the church .She is made o up of many lively stones that does make up the spiritual house of God.

1Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

God is no respecter of persons. He purifies the hearts of a Jew and the Gentile in the same way. By a work of His faith according to His labor of Love.this is no of our selves lest any man boast in false pride..

It is men who puts a difference between a Jew and a Gentile, as if there was two brides, making God a bigamist .

But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving “them” the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto “us”; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faithAct 15:5.............. (His faith that works in us to both will and do His good pleasure.)

PlainWord · May 24, 2016

garee said:

I agree with a lot of what you said but disagree with some points too. Clearly God has one Bride and it is all those saved, Jew and Gentile alike.

However, I was pointing out that there are two Women in Revelation, one is good, one is bad. The Good is in Rev 12, the Bad in Rev 17. I disagree with your assessment of the Woman in Rev 12. John is not showing us the Bride here per se. The Woman of Rev 12 is the virgin Mary and by extension, Israel.

Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth.

The child that she bore was Jesus. If one understands the positions of the stars at the birth of Christ, then this verse fits it perfectly. It was this great sign that the wise men saw from the east which prompted their journey.

Mat 2: Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem, [SUP]2 [/SUP]saying, “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.”

The "Woman clothed with the Sun" was actually the constellation Virgo (Virgin) with its 12 main stars. A new moon was at her feet signifying a new life was born. Not sure if I am saying this exactly right as this is from memory.

The "Harlot" of Rev 17 is a false religion and the mother of all of them. In today's context, this false religion can only be Islam. However, earlier forms of similar religions were present in the previous 6 heads of the Beast. The Beast itself is a sequence of 7 evil and Satanic led world empires which persecuted Israel starting with Egypt and is over 4,000 years old. The final head of the beast was the Ottoman Empire which was mortally wounded, yet will come back to life as the rebirth of the Islamic Empire in the area of the lion, leopard, bear.

tanakh · May 24, 2016

wwjd_kilden said:

That is the wisest advice I have seen on this subject so far. The RCC has been marked off as the Antichrist/Beast since the reformation. Yet people forget that up until Luther it was the Church for all intents and purposes. I acknowledge that it has been corrupted in its teachings but the Devil is subtle in his methods. While people focus on the Pope the Devil may be planning something else. God warns us of a strong delusion and the RCC may be it.

PlainWord · May 24, 2016

The RCC cannot be the AntiChrist/Beast for a number of reasons. The RCC doesn't fit many of the clues. The REAL A/C must fit ALL THE CLUES!!! The A/C (as some call him) is really the King of the North (as called by Daniel) and the Man of Sin/Son of Perdition and Lawless One (as called by Paul).

This from Dan 11 gives the location of where the King of the North comes from. KING, not a POPE.

[h=3]The Northern King’s Blasphemies[/h][SUP]29 [/SUP]“At the appointed time he shall return and go toward the south; but it shall not be like the former or the latter. [SUP]30 [/SUP]For ships from Cyprus shall come against him; therefore he shall be grieved, and return in rage against the holy covenant, and do damage.

“So he shall return and show regard for those who forsake the holy covenant. [SUP]31 [/SUP]And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation. [SUP]32 [/SUP]Those who do wickedly against the covenant he shall corrupt with flattery; but the people who know their God shall be strong, and carry out great exploits. [SUP]33 [/SUP]And those of the people who understand shall instruct many; yet for many days they shall fall by sword and flame, by captivity and plundering. [SUP]34 [/SUP]Now when they fall, they shall be aided with a little help; but many shall join with them by intrigue. [SUP]35 [/SUP]And some of those of understanding shall fall, to refine them, purify them, and make them white, until the time of the end; because it is still for the appointed time.

[SUP]36 [/SUP]“Then the king shall do according to his own will: he shall exalt and magnify himself above every god, shall speak blasphemies against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the wrath has been accomplished; for what has been determined shall be done. [SUP]37 [/SUP]He shall regard neither the God of his fathers nor the desire of women, nor regard any god; for he shall exalt himself above them all. [SUP]38 [/SUP]But in their place he shall honor a god of fortresses; and a god which his fathers did not know he shall honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and pleasant things. [SUP]39 [/SUP]Thus he shall act against the strongest fortresses with a foreign god, which he shall acknowledge, and advance its glory; and he shall cause them to rule over many, and divide the land for gain.

The King of the North is from the North of Israel. This should be obvious. Rome is NOT to the north of Israel. Rome is more west than north, call it northwest of Israel. The country that is to the north of Israel is Turkey. Turkey is where the Eastern Roman Empire was located. Turkey was the headquarters of the Ottoman Empire (7th head of the Beast). Turkey is where all 7 churches of Asia Minor the whom John wrote were located. Turkey was the location where all the wickedness that John wrote about to the 7 churches was happening and will happen again.

Therefore, the Man of Sin will come from Turkey and he will direct people (Muslims) to follow the Beast of the Sea, which is the head that is healed, the head that is Islamic.

DOMINICHI · May 24, 2016

Everybody's declaring this and declaring that as if they had authority.
I declare you have no idea what you're talking about.

Ahwatukee · May 25, 2016

Hello garee,

The symbolism of the Woman of Revelation 12:

" a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head."

The symbolism of the Woman revealed:

"Then he had another dream, and he told it to his brothers. “Listen,” he said, “I had another dream, and this time the sun and moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me.” When he told his father as well as his brothers, his father rebuked him and said, “What is this dream you had? Will your mother and I and your brothers actually come and bow down to the ground before you?” (Gen.37:9-10)

Sun = Jacob

Moon = Wife(s)

Stars = Eleven tribes of Israel/Jacob and Joseph makes twelve (twelve tribes of Israel)

The woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and wearing a crown of twelves stars.

The woman = The nation Israel

garee · May 25, 2016

Hi thanks for the reply

Mary could be used as a type to represent the bride of Christ as one of the lively stones that make up the spiritual house of God the church. But she is not the whole spiritual body, as the bride of Christ.

Although we still live in these bodies of death as new creatures we know the things of God after His Spirit, walking by faith, not seen..( the flesh)

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Gal 3:28

Abraham’s seed (singular) is the spiritual seed Christ. This is not to be confused of seeds many in respect to the outward flesh of Abraham, the Jewish race .

Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, “which is Christ”.

As new creatures in Christ we are considered His chaste virgin bride. As those who do not seek to fornicate as a improper union by having other gods before our living God Christ Jesus. And therefore violate the first commandment.

Again all Christians are typified as His our husband ‘s chaste virgin bride.

Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 2Co 11:1

Looking to the outward flesh of Mary to represent Revelation 12, I would think we run into the same kind of subtilty as mentioned above . It caused the fall in the beginning. And rather than using the flesh of serpent to give the spirit of error, Satan a voice who has no form, it is attributed to the flesh of Mary.

This is what the Catholics perform making her the virgin mother, and not one of members as the bride of Christ, the whole church..

Christians I believe are informed of the new creature, the bride of Christ in Revelation 21. She is clothed with the Sun, the righteousness of Christ. The sun and moon (times keepers) under her feet signals it the end of time.

The bride of Christ the church as revealed in Revelation 21

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. Rev 21:1 (husband Christ)

She as the residents of the heavenly city of Christ is named Christian .A word that means residents of a city. This is with no other meaning attached. The suffix ian denotes residents of a city. The prefix in our case represents the founder, Christ the husband.

In Galatians 4 it is a companion verse that speaks of the same bride coming down from heaven as the children of God’s promise. This is the Christians the new named he named His people in Acts..

But Jerusalem which is above is free, (the bride of Christ) which is “the mother of us all”. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Gal 4:26

She, Christ's bride in effect is persecuted by the Harlot . The Harlot is the mother of all the religions of this world that have not the Spirit of Christ living in them by faith eternally. For if any man has not the Spirit of Christ than neither do they belong to Him.

Because the bride of Christ is not in respect to the flesh .

Below we see Paul used to typify as the mother of us all, a responsibility for all the member as His bride the church .And as they hold out the gospel the desire is that like the verse above 2 Corinthians 11:2 that we may present others as a chaste virgin to Christ, espoused as our husband Christ.

Paul speaking as a mother being inspired by God informs us as it reads...

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Revelation 12 in that way must represent His bride the church .And again made of many lively stones to include Mary that forms the spiritual house of God. It is not after the flesh of Israel, as outward Jews..seeds (many)

Rondonmon · May 25, 2016

PlainWord said:

Hello Brother, I am new here, just had a major heart attack about a month back, so I have time to spend on my favorite subject, prophecy and its understanding via scriptures and prayer.

You are so close everywhere to what God has revealed unto this Christian of 30 years, so if I point out a few differences, take it in Stride. I will paste another portion of a post you posted below, for I also found that very similar to my understandings from God.

YOUR OTHER POST HERE "ISLAM is the FALSE religion that is spoken of so much in Revelation. It is successor of a line of false religions going back to the Tower of Babel. it is the current Baal. It is the current Diana that was worshiped in Ephesus in Paul's Day. They all have the same Satanic symbol of the Crescent and the Star. This symbol can be found all the way back to Egypt and has been present in all 7 historic beast kingdoms since. ISLAM has a False god, ALLAH and a false prophet, MUHAMMAD. The method of worship by ISLAM is identical to the worship of Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel's day."

The only thing we disagree on is the Muslim angle as per the Anti-Christ/Man of Sin/Little Horn. The Great Harlot is False Religion, but she is ALL FALSE Religion, from the inception of man kind. Not just Islam. Islam nor the RCC was around for her very beginning, we know this because the Harlot has the blood of Both the Saints and Martyrs of Jesus on her hands, John meant to show us that key, else he would just have said one or the other. This is the Harlots Judgment, correct you are, and the Kings in league with the Beast destroy her, and burn her, But Why ? Because the Beast demands to be the Only GOD !! He demands to be worshiped as God, or else we die. Satan is the 8th King, and the 7th King, which rules but a short time, is the Man of Sin, whom the 8th King possesses. He was, but was not, yet is, Satan was the Ruler of all the Beast Systems, by absentia, but was in Heaven, but is cast down, and possesses the Man of Sin.

Now, with all due respect on the Muslim angle, using logic, I think that has been way oversold. Logic tells us that no Muslim would ever be given such powers via Peace, especially in today's climate (terrorism) it just is not feasible that the world (USA,England, France, etc. all) would entrust such powers to any Muslim, although I do think America falls, we cause a Worldwide Financial Collapse (Obama's Job as the John the Baptist of the Devil, JMO) that sets the stage for this European Ruler to come forth. No Muslim could conquer the world either, so unless the world decides to allow a Muslim dictatorial powers, I just do not see it, besides I have a Blog (WINK) that shows he has to be born in Greece, though of Turkish parents or grandparents. (He will be Assyrian) Satan knows these things if we do, no doubt. He will force a peace treaty between the Muslims/Palestine and Israel, but in the end he will seek to destroy, ALL Religions, Rev. 12 he tries to destroy Israel, (Judaism) but God protects her, then he goes after the Remnant of her Seed (Jesus was the Seed) that would be the Christians who became Christians after the rapture, hence Remnant. (small part that is left)

He will be an Atheist, hence Daniel 11:37. I have read so many things about the Anti-Christ on here I am dizzy, I read them all. The False Prophet can be a Pope, but so could any huge religious leader, because John gave us a clue, he had two horns like a Lamb, but spake like a Dragon. BUT....The Anti-Christ can not be a Pope, he will be a Geo-political leader of the European Union. I think my blog proves that beyond doubt, he arises from Two Kingdoms at once, the European Union and Greece via Daniel 7 and 8.

Why would Satan/Man of Sin, try to bring forth an already fanatical group of worshipers, of a god called Allah, only to tell them, now worship me a mere man ? If you think they would go wild when he asked then to Worship him as God LOL, well I do too. They would never do that, never. Satan knows this, he will destroy Islam, and this world will see it as a great thing, he made them safer. He destroyed the number one world threat, after having revived the World Economy, via his understanding Dark Sentences (Understanding Riddles and Conundrums/Hebrew) This will cause the peoples of the world to entrust him with GREATER POWERS.

Revelation 18, is then the Judgment of all the Beast Systems, thus Babylon is Fallen, is Fallen. The Seal/Trump/Vial Judgments make the world cry and wail for their precious BABYLON they loved so much, (Beast System/Man trying to govern without God in he Equation, Amen.) The 21 Judgments might just set the whole world ablaze/on fire. She burns. Babylon is the worldwide beast system that Daniel saw Destroyed by the Rock hewn out of the Mountain in Daniel 2, one Jesus Christ......AMEN !!! Glory to God. Come Lord, come.

vic1980 · May 25, 2016

tanakh said:

Sir, those strong delusion are for those that have pleasure in unrighteousness, not for those that are in Jesus Christ.

Those that did not believed the truth in Christ.

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Those in Christ

1 John 2:20-21 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know. I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

Shalom

PlainWord · May 25, 2016

Dear Brother,

A heart attack at 51! Yikes. Hope you are okay? I have a bad heart too so this scares me.

We all have different views. Glad ours are close.

Yes, we are going to have to disagree on this. By saying, "Mother of all Harlots" tells us that Mystery Babylon does not include all false religions but is either the oldest (mother) or biggest of them. But I do agree it isn't just Islam but the historic false religions being supported by each head of the beast going back to Isis in Egypt and yes, even to Nimrod in Babel.

I think you are falling into the same trap as most. The "entire world" doesn't fall for the Man of Sin. You likely are reading this passage from Rev 13 and see the entire planet involved as most do. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. (A similar statement is made in Dan 3 about those who must bow to the image there and we know Babylon hadn't conquered the entire planet.) But read on, the next sentence narrows it: [SUP]8 [/SUP]All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

It is only those who dwell on the earth whose names are not written in the Book of Life who worship/serve the Beast of the Sea Kingdom.

"The Earth" does not mean the entire planet. It can mean the known earth to John. Daniel also uses the phrase, "whole earth" to describe the conquest of Alexander the Great in Dan 8: [SUP]5 [/SUP]And as I was considering, suddenly a male goat came from the west, across the surface of the whole earth, without touching the ground; and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes. Did Alexander cross the surface of the entire planet? Of course not. He crossed much of the known earth of Daniel's day. So, did Daniel lie? Is the Bible wrong? Of course not. They have their meanings and ways of writing that we can't squeeze into our thinking but rather we must adjust to the way they thought, spoke and wrote in order to understand their meaning, not ours.

I submit to you that the known earth in Daniel's day (whole earth) did not change much from his day to John's day.

I can find no scriptural support for a treaty between Palestine and Israel. It could happen as Israel has signed 6 such treaties with its Arab/Muslim neighbors before but nothing says that the Man of Sin makes a peace treaty with Israel. If you are getting this from Dan 9, you like most, are mis-reading it. Dan 9 is over, all 70 weeks (69.5 actually) have been fulfilled. We see in Dan 11 that both kings speak lies at the same table but Israel does not appear to be a party to this.

Yes. The Woman is Israel. Satan goes after her but the Woman is protected "flown to her place" so Satan then makes war with Christians.

When Christ was resurrected and ascended back into heaven, I believe that's when the war in heaven broke out. Satan thought he defeated God by killing His Son so when Jesus returned to heaven and Jesus instead won, I think that's when Satan was finally cast down for good. Satan tried to wipe Israel off the map in AD 70 with Titus but the "wilderness" AKA nations of the world took the Israelis/Jews in for a time, times and a half time. Because Israel was scattered for her own protection, Satan went after the Church as he has been doing ever since. The Ottomans alone killed 50 million Christians. At the end of this period Satan used Hitler to try to finish Israel off and nearly succeeded but as we saw, this event was the catalyst for Israel regaining her land.

So I think we agree here.

I see him coming from Turkey. The man I am watching right now who fits is Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, the 12th President of Turkey, which of course is the HQ of the former Ottoman Empire. I am watching this dude like a hawk. So far he is acting very much like a "lawless leader" who is into wealth and corruption. He also uses "miracles" to impress his people. He hates the USA and Israel and is actively trying to restore the Ottoman Empire back to its glory days of global power and influence. I do not see any evidence of the European Union being involved.

He uses their belief in Allah and their hatred of Israel and the USA to first get them to attack. Notice in Dan 11 that Israel is under severe attack (and I think defeated) BEFORE the Man of Sin claims to be above all called God. It is precisely the fact that he accomplished what no other Arab/Muslim leader was able to do that gives him standing to be the Mahdi, the savior and one who unites the Muslim world, which is what they are waiting for.

PlainWord · May 25, 2016

[SUP]9 [/SUP]The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, [SUP]10 [/SUP]and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

What is the Love of Truth?
Who does not receive the Love of Truth and thus will perish?

2 John 1:3

Grace, mercy, and peace will be with you from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

Who rejects Christ? Many do, I'm speaking of a large group following a false religion that does not think God has a Son.

Answer these two important clues and you can see who the deceived are.

Paul quotes Sarah in Gal 4. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.”

This is a very sad, yet compelling passage. It is told in Isa 54 and in Gal 4. So we have two witnesses to this which makes the message even more powerful.

You see, Abraham had two sons, he was told to cast out one of them. But a father will always love his son so Abraham does not completely turn his back on Ishmael. In fact it is rumored that Abraham would visit his son from time to time and when Abraham died, Ismael and Isaac buried their father together. For Ismael to know his father was dead meant the lines of communication had to remain open all those years.

Genesis 25:9

And his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah, which is before Mamre, in the field of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite

One son (Isaac) follows the truth and gets the promise, the other becomes deceived. Ishmael and his descendants tried to get the blessings of Abraham and his covenant concerning his inheritance (the LAND) for millennia. The final conflict to come, those involved will be Jews and Arabs/Muslims. The conflict between these groups doesn't end until Christ returns and settles it. It isn't about the EU and it isn't about the RCC. It all goes back to this!!!

Failure to understand how deep the rift is between Jew and Muslim is to not understand half of the Bible. It is literally this big of a deal in terms of real world events that the Bible addresses. The Bible is Israel centric. How much of the OT dealt with the wars between Israel and her neighbors? The genealogy of Israel's neighbors have not changed. The same enemies today are the same of yesterday and will be the same in the future.

Rondonmon · May 25, 2016

PlainWord said:

Dear Brother,

A heart attack at 51! Yikes. Hope you are okay? I have a bad heart too so this scares me.

Ran a lot until about 7 or 8 years ago, but I had obtained type 2 Diabeties....still only weigh 175, just got it....

We all have different views. Glad ours are close.

Yes, we are going to have to disagree on this. By saying, "Mother of all Harlots" tells us that Mystery Babylon does not include all false religions but is either the oldest (mother) or biggest of them. But I do agree it isn't just Islam but the historic false religions being supported by each head of the beast going back to Isis in Egypt and yes, even to Nimrod in Babel.

But MYSTERY BABYLON is really a misnomer right ? It is speaking of the Great Harlot, then it gives us four descriptors, MYSTERY,(COMMA) Babylon the Great, Mother of Harlots and Abominations of Earth. I think Mother of Harlots and Abominations of Earth denote False Religion, in general, Babylon only denotes where she became organized centrally at one place, the Mystery is that she was also headquartered at Rome in Johns time, and she is spread all over the world by the End Times, thus she is all in nations, all tongues, and on many waters. False Religion is everywhere by the end times, in many facets, even witchcraft etc. The Kings of the earth have fornicated with her, and the inhabitants have been made drunk with her wine, the Apostles were drunk with the wine of the Holy Spirit, yin/yang. Here is where I think Rev.17 shows that these two are intermingled throughout history, not just with Babylon. The Great Harlot rides the Beast of Rev. 17/Rev.13/Same, all of these Beast Systems have been interwoven with False Religion, Babylon with its many Religions served Baal, or Bel as they knew him, Greece served many deities, but also served Belios, which was Bel, which was Baal, and likewise we know Romes many False gods, one of which Jupiter was Belios/Bel/Baal. So it is not just Baal, or any other false gods, but All False gods, of all the Beast Systems that our God considers a Great Harlot to his True Religion/Christ Jesus, the Redeemer of man kind. God called Israel a Harlot when she served False gods, so any false god that any man serves, imho, is the Great Harlot unto God, it is the collective effort of man, trying to rule the world without God in his plans and bowing down to man made images and serving demon entities.

I think you are falling into the same trap as most. The "entire world" doesn't fall for the Man of Sin. You likely are reading this passage from Rev 13 and see the entire planet involved as most do. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. (A similar statement is made in Dan 3 about those who must bow to the image there and we know Babylon hadn't conquered the entire planet.) But read on, the next sentence narrows it: [SUP]8 [/SUP]All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

It is only those who dwell on the earth whose names are not written in the Book of Life who worship/serve the Beast of the Sea Kingdom.

I think (Don't know for a fact) we might differ on the Rapture, you see I do not think the Church will be on earth for the Tribulation, and most all peoples of the earth will love and serve the Beast, not all of course, but many, because a fourth of man kind is wiped out, then later another 1/3 of man kind is wiped out. Or 2 billion people the first time, then 2 billion of the 6 billion left, so at least half of an 8 Billion population will be killed off, so I think t has to be a worldwide event. Maybe a billion people is raptured, who knows !! But there will be Christians who become Christians after the Rapture, who will be killed by the Beast. I do not know, we might agree on the Rapture.

"The Earth" does not mean the entire planet. It can mean the known earth to John. Daniel also uses the phrase, "whole earth" to describe the conquest of Alexander the Great in Dan 8: [SUP]5 [/SUP]And as I was considering, suddenly a male goat came from the west, across the surface of the whole earth, without touching the ground; and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes. Did Alexander cross the surface of the entire planet? Of course not. He crossed much of the known earth of Daniel's day. So, did Daniel lie? Is the Bible wrong? Of course not. They have their meanings and ways of writing that we can't squeeze into our thinking but rather we must adjust to the way they thought, spoke and wrote in order to understand their meaning, not ours.

I submit to you that the known earth in Daniel's day (whole earth) did not change much from his day to John's day.

These translation from the Hebrew can be quite wrong via the Old English, for instance the word used for earth is 'erets, 776, which means partitively Land or only a par pf a whole, those translations from Hebrew to English in many cases are found wanting.

I can find no scriptural support for a treaty between Palestine and Israel. It could happen as Israel has signed 6 such treaties with its Arab/Muslim neighbors before but nothing says that the Man of Sin makes a peace treaty with Israel. If you are getting this from Dan 9, you like most, are mis-reading it. Dan 9 is over, all 70 weeks (69.5 actually) have been fulfilled. We see in Dan 11 that both kings speak lies at the same table but Israel does not appear to be a party to this.

No, I get the Peace Deal from Daniel 8, where the Anti-Christ (This can not be Antiochus) is said to destroy many via peace, my Blog about the Anti-Christ explains this in full detail, I will post it one day, I would like do get you opinion, because even though we differ on some things, I can tell you are very studied and thorough with you opinions.

Daniel 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and BY PEACE shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

Yes. The Woman is Israel. Satan goes after her but the Woman is protected "flown to her place" so Satan then makes war with Christians.

When Christ was resurrected and ascended back into heaven, I believe that's when the war in heaven broke out. Satan thought he defeated God by killing His Son so when Jesus returned to heaven and Jesus instead won, I think that's when Satan was finally cast down for good. Satan tried to wipe Israel off the map in AD 70 with Titus but the "wilderness" AKA nations of the world took the Israelis/Jews in for a time, times and a half time. Because Israel was scattered for her own protection, Satan went after the Church as he has been doing ever since. The Ottomans alone killed 50 million Christians. At the end of this period Satan used Hitler to try to finish Israel off and nearly succeeded but as we saw, this event was the catalyst for Israel regaining her land.

So I think we agree here.

I see him coming from Turkey. The man I am watching right now who fits is Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, the 12th President of Turkey, which of course is the HQ of the former Ottoman Empire. I am watching this dude like a hawk. So far he is acting very much like a "lawless leader" who is into wealth and corruption. He also uses "miracles" to impress his people. He hates the USA and Israel and is actively trying to restore the Ottoman Empire back to its glory days of global power and influence. I do not see any evidence of the European Union being involved.

He uses their belief in Allah and their hatred of Israel and the USA to first get them to attack. Notice in Dan 11 that Israel is under severe attack (and I think defeated) BEFORE the Man of Sin claims to be above all called God. It is precisely the fact that he accomplished what no other Arab/Muslim leader was able to do that gives him standing to be the Mahdi, the savior and one who unites the Muslim world, which is what they are waiting for.

I will post my Anti-Christ post later on sometime, got to go eat a salad...LOL. God Bless.

Mine didn't work out right so I went back and placed all my words in Bold.

PlainWord · May 25, 2016

vic1980 said:

You are absolutely correct!!! Awesome post. The RCC believes in Christ. They do not have pleasure in unrighteousness as a body. The RCC has faults as does every denomination. The whole pope and Mary thing are absurd and not scriptural. But they are a far cry in what they believe verses what Islam teaches.

Islam breaks virtually all 10 of the commandments (Exo 20).

1. They worship a God other than our true God of Israel (Allah) and they refuse to acknowledge his Son, Jesus as the Christ.
2. They bow down and face Mecca, the Temple of Allah, and worship it's black stone, the Kaaba Stone, a meteor which is a likeness of things above from Heaven.
3. They swear by Allah all the time as they are killing people, blowing up planes, etc.
4. They do not honor the Sabbath or keep it Holy
5. I guess they honor their parents as far as I know
6. Many of them murder in the name of Allah (extreme Jihadist)
7. Many commit adultery (not sure if they are worse than others though). Muhammad married a 9 year old and had many wives.
8. Do they steal?
9. Do they bear false witness? All the time concerning Israel, the USA, their faith, etc.
10. Do they covet their neighbor's wives? In Islam they were not allowed to marry the wives of adopted children. Muhammad adopted a son then later walked in on his wife and saw her naked. He wanted her and the wife told the adopted son who offered his wife up to Muhammad. But since he wasn't allowed to marry her, he changed the law making adoption illegal among Muslims which it still is today in most Muslim countries. Then he took his adopted son's wife as his own.

Saudi Arabia is the world's largest enslaver of both labor and sex slaves, keeping well over a million people in bondage. ISIS kidnaps and rapes women all the time. The Gulf states aren't much better.

Rev 6:15 and 19:18 mentions slaves. There are no slaves in the RCC these days and aren't likely to be any in the future while Muslim nations are loaded with slaves who apparently are forced to fight Christ with the Kings and military of these nations.

abcdef · May 25, 2016

Ahwatukee said:

Hello garee,

The symbolism of the Woman of Revelation 12:

" a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head."

The symbolism of the Woman revealed:

"Then he had another dream, and he told it to his brothers. “Listen,” he said, “I had another dream, and this time the sun and moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me.” When he told his father as well as his brothers, his father rebuked him and said, “What is this dream you had? Will your mother and I and your brothers actually come and bow down to the ground before you?” (Gen.37:9-10)

Sun = Jacob

Moon = Wife(s)

Stars = Eleven tribes of Israel/Jacob and Joseph makes twelve (twelve tribes of Israel)

The woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and wearing a crown of twelves stars.

The woman = The nation Israel

Brother Ahwatukee,

So if the woman is Israel,

Who is the man child who is to rule the nations with a rod of iron?

It can ONLY be Jesus. Yes?

PlainWord · May 25, 2016

You are taking a very broad view, IMO dear friend. However, you make a lot of valid points and I agree with a lot of what you said. However, I believe the Harlot was a mystery to John because it did not yet exist, not until 632 AD with Muhammad. I believe ISLAM is the Mother of all False Religions today. In past beast heads other religions where the Harlots or even Mother harlots. You mention Ba'al etc.

Each of these past beast heads had false religions with things in common. They had a male and female dominant god. They had a god for things like the sun, moon, ocean etc. ISLAM is kinda an all-in-one. It is monotheistic but it does fit the Babylon comparison in the manner of worship, that is, when worship music is played, you must bow down facing Mecca (the Temple of Allah where once there was 360 idols and today is a meteor, an image from the sky) and pray. This practice is very similar to this in Babylon:

Dan 3: “To you it is commanded, O peoples, nations, and languages, [SUP]5 [/SUP]that at the time you hear the sound of the horn, flute, harp, lyre, and psaltery, in symphony with all kinds of music, you shall fall down and worship the gold image that King Nebuchadnezzar has set up; [SUP]6 [/SUP]and whoever does not fall down and worship shall be cast immediately into the midst of a burning fiery furnace.” [SUP]7 [/SUP]So at that time, when all the people heard the sound of the horn, flute, harp, and lyre, in symphony with all kinds of music, all the people, nations, and languages fell down and worshiped the gold image which King Nebuchadnezzar had set up.

The above is EXACTLY how Muslim worship even down to the music. Consider the "wine of the wrath of her fornication" which appears several times in Revelation. What does this phrase mean to you? God does this in response: He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

How are we to judge people? By their fruit, right? The fruit of Islam is death, both physical and spiritual, especially spiritual death. Many are angry. It's a tough religion to follow. It's very demanding and legalistic. Its especially rough on women. So the fruits (wine) of their false worship (fornication) is rage. You have to be pretty angry at an innocent person to just murder them in cold blood just because they don't believe as you do.

Got to run, wife called. More later. I am enjoying our debate.

Rondonmon · May 26, 2016

PlainWord said:

But we agree, in all reality, Islam is the Largest part of the Great Harlot, 2 billion people(s). And since she is Judged in chapter (Rev. 17), doesn't she have to die ? A paradigm shift, lol, you should see it, it is your idea too, that Islam is the Great Harlot. She is Burned and Destroyed by the Kings and his Beast.

Our only difference is I think this Beast will come after every religion true and that all false religions are this Harlot, but if the Great Harlot was only Islam, doesn't that mean the Beast and his Kings destroys her ? Rev. 17:16.... More tomorrow, or the next day, my Aunt died today, I have a funeral to attend Fri. or Sat. I would Imagine.

God bless... Oh yea, I ill post my Anti-Christ Blog below, for your eyes only LOL.

Rondonmon · May 26, 2016

PlainWord said:

The Birthplace of the Anti-Christ

Isaiah says the Anti-Christ is an Assyrian.The Anti-Christ is said to come to power via the fourth beast in the last days per Daniel Chapter Seven. The Anti-Christ is also said to arise out of the Grecian empire in the last days, so how do we reconcile these different understandings ?

This is established fairly easily, Daniel did say the understandings would be bound up until the end. The Anti-Christ in Daniel chapters seven and eight is shown, if read properly, to arise out of two kingdoms at once, but how can this be ?

Daniel chapter seven is fairly straightforward, we understand this to be about the four beast systems, the fourth beast is where the little horn (Anti-Christ) will arise out of, most everyone understands the fourth beast to have been Rome, but in the last days/end times this has to be the European Union.

Now Daniel chapter eight is explained in detail by Gabriel the angel, was the he goat (Alexander the Great) conquering Persia ( the Ram ) and Gabriel interpreted this dream for Daniel.

Daniel 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

We should note, this is speaking of the end time, it is not speaking of Antiochus who came before Jesus was even born. The word Indignation means: (Greek Word za'am meaning Gods Fury at Sin) so at the Last End of Indignation means right before Gods Judgment of Sin/Vials or Bowls of Gods Wrath (Revelation).

20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. 21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. 22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power. ( The Four Generals that stood up in Alexanders stead were Ptolemy , Seleucus , Cassander and Lysimachus. )

23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

This is clearly speaking about the end times/last days when the sins have come full/ bowls of Gods wrath, a fierce king shall arise out of one of the four kingdoms that stood up in Alexander the Greats Stead, speaking dark sentences (understanding Riddles and conundrums) and he comes to power.

24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: (Satan Possesses him) and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. 25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, (he claims to Be God) and by peace shall destroy many Through a Peace Treaty he deceives many) he shall also stand up against the Prince (Jesus) of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

Jesus destroys the Anti-Christ his kings and their armies without hand ( with the Sword of the Spirit/Holy Spirit) by the countenance of his coming, Amen. This guy magnifies himself and says in the temple of God, I am God !!

Now, so many people say this is about Antiochus, so I always feel the need to prove that this is about the end times, when Gods wrath is come full. This is about the little horn/Anti-Christ. And he arises out of their kingdom in the last days, so in essence he arises out of one of the Four Generals kingdoms in the last days, but which one ? Well, since the Anti-Christ arises out of the fourth beast also, then this other Kingdom has to lie within the borders of the European Union. Only Cassander's kingdom of Greece is in the European Union !! The "Assyrian" arising from Greece would be very, very possible since Greece shares a border with Turkey, and many, many Turks live in Greece, so the Assyrian Anti-Christ is born in Greece, and comes to power in Greece, then in the European Union. But what does John say in Revelation about the Beast that arises out of the Sea ? By the way, he was on Patmos, a small Greek Island when he saw this vision.

Rev. 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

The Main body is described by John as like a leopard !!

Put it all together, the "Assyrian" Anti-Christ is born in Greece, of Turkish parents or grandparents , he comes to power in the European Union.

This is where the Anti-Christ is from.

Ahwatukee · May 26, 2016

Hello Rondonmon,

If I may, God has given us many clues in the book of Revelation. Below are the characteristics of the woman and the beast:

"There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns."

"One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits by many waters."

"Then the angel said to me, “The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages."

"The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls."

"The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits."

"They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

"The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”

"The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast."

=================================
The woman is referred to as a prostitute and because we know that she is a city, then the scripture is speaking of her of being prostitute in the spiritual sense, meaning that she is committing spiritual unfaithfulness against God. As an example, when Israel would worship the god's of the nations around her, it was said that she was being idolatrous, committing spiritual adultery against God. Therefore, that this woman of Rev.17 being referred to as a prostitute would infer that she is committing spiritual immorality against God. In fact, the word "Porneuo" translated "sexual immorality" figuratively refers to her being unfaithful to Christ, while posing as His true follower. That said, Islam does not fit that description of the woman and that because Islam is not claiming to belong to Christ, Islam is not a city, and it does not sit on seven hills. Therefore, the woman would have to be someone who is claiming to belong to Christ while at the same time being unfaithful Him in order to play the prostitute.

"The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”

At the time that John was receiving this information from the angel, Rome was that great city that ruled over the kings of the earth. That the city is Rome is meant to direct the reader to her idolatrous religious system, that being Roman Catholicism. For her pagan system is a counterfeit of the true church of Christ, from the worship of Mary as queen of heaven, co-mediator, without sin, assumed up to heaven, to the ritual of the Eucharist, purgatory, sacraments, etc., etc.

"The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits."

As we have seen, the woman is an idolatrous city that ruled over the kings of the earth which sits on seven hills. That said, Rome was literally built on and is famous for her seven hills and where her headquarters is, the Vatican:

"The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet"

She was glittering with Gold

"Then the angel said to me, “The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages."

Since we know that the woman is a prostitute, which means that she is committing spiritual unfaithfulness against Christ and since "the waters" where she sits represent peoples, multitudes, nations and languages, this would refer to the woman's idolatrous practices influencing and affecting all peoples world-wide.

"The kings of the world have committed adultery with her, and the people who belong to this world have been made drunk by the wine of her immorality."

Meaning: The rulers and inhabitants of the earth will partake in her idolatrous practices.

PlainWord · May 26, 2016

What specific passages are you citing?

Dan 8 is discussing Antiochus. Chapter 7 contains a very important statement that most miss which I underline for you.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]“Thus he said:‘The fourth beast shall be A fourth kingdom on earth (ROME, we all agree), Which shall be different from all other kingdoms, And shall devour the whole earth,Trample it and break it in pieces.[SUP] 24 [/SUP]The ten horns are ten kings Who shall arise from this kingdom. And another shall rise after them; He shall be different from the first ones, And shall subdue three kings.

The Ottoman Empire arose from Rome out of its eastern empires. Remember from Dan 2 statue that the Roman Empire (IRON) had two legs, those were the eastern and western empire? Well out of the eastern empire or leg came the Ottoman Empire which emerged literally from within the Roman Empire unlike the other beasts which conquered from outside. Now the Ottoman Empire itself received a mortal wound and appeared to have died back in 1922 but as Rev 13 tells us it comes back to life in the area of the lion, leopard, bear which is the territory north of Israel that we know as Syria, Iraq and Iran and yes Turkey could be considered part of ancient Assyria.

Again, Chapter 8 is all about Greece, not the end times but rather latter time of the indignation, the desecration of the Temple. Gabriel goes on to explain that Greece is broken up into 4 pieces, which were Alexander's four generals. Alexander is the large horn. He defeats Medo-Persia. The 2,300 days was the period of time from the desecration until the Temple was cleaned by the Maccabees and their Revolt. It was actually 1,150 days as the 2,300 actually refers to the number of mornings and evening worships.

Sorry, got to run. I know I haven't fully addressed things.

The antichrist

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