The antichrist
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Thanks for explaining your beliefs. I now understand where you are coming from.
Daniel 11 also says: “So he shall return and show regard for those who forsake the holy covenant..."
Which holy covenant?
Who is forsaking the holy covenant?
I always viewed the holy covenant as the one where the Land was promised to Abraham here.
Genesis 15:18
On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying: “To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates—
If I am correct, the ones who disregard this covenant aren't the Jews/Israelis but rather the Palestinians and the Arab/Muslim world. If I am correct about the Man of Sin being Muslim, then naturally if he is forsaking the god of his fathers, he is forsaking Allah. He would be placing himself above Allah, Muhammad, our God, Jesus - everyone.
I don't see the Jews being deceived by any foreigner who attacks them and we know from Dan 11 that the King of the North is attacking Israel. Eze 38 confirms this as does Joel 1 and other passages. This wicked leader clearly is leading a Muslim army as those from the north who wish to destroy Israel are all Muslims.
I totally agree the Pope isn't involved and neither is the RCC or any church. "The gates of Hades shall not prevail against the church (any true church)." Rev 14 tells us that the followers of the "Beast" kingdom all go to Hell.
If you study the end of Galatians 4 you will see Paul giving a lesson about Jews and Muslims. This passage is very revealing and I believe relevant to much of what is happening in the Middle East. Therefore I believe the Muslims are the ones deceived and united by the Man of Sin/King of the North. They are the ones who have slaves, who thrown dust in their heads to mourn, who behead, who torment and attack Jews and Christians, who have a false prophet and false god. Incidentally they are the ones causing much of the problems in the world today. They are the ones who will take peace from the earth, etc. etc.
Daniel 11 also says: “So he shall return and show regard for those who forsake the holy covenant..."
Which holy covenant?
Who is forsaking the holy covenant?
I always viewed the holy covenant as the one where the Land was promised to Abraham here.
Genesis 15:18
On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying: “To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates—
If I am correct, the ones who disregard this covenant aren't the Jews/Israelis but rather the Palestinians and the Arab/Muslim world. If I am correct about the Man of Sin being Muslim, then naturally if he is forsaking the god of his fathers, he is forsaking Allah. He would be placing himself above Allah, Muhammad, our God, Jesus - everyone.
I don't see the Jews being deceived by any foreigner who attacks them and we know from Dan 11 that the King of the North is attacking Israel. Eze 38 confirms this as does Joel 1 and other passages. This wicked leader clearly is leading a Muslim army as those from the north who wish to destroy Israel are all Muslims.
I totally agree the Pope isn't involved and neither is the RCC or any church. "The gates of Hades shall not prevail against the church (any true church)." Rev 14 tells us that the followers of the "Beast" kingdom all go to Hell.
If you study the end of Galatians 4 you will see Paul giving a lesson about Jews and Muslims. This passage is very revealing and I believe relevant to much of what is happening in the Middle East. Therefore I believe the Muslims are the ones deceived and united by the Man of Sin/King of the North. They are the ones who have slaves, who thrown dust in their heads to mourn, who behead, who torment and attack Jews and Christians, who have a false prophet and false god. Incidentally they are the ones causing much of the problems in the world today. They are the ones who will take peace from the earth, etc. etc.
Not to butt in but please look at this passage. The timing is after 1948 when Israel has been brought back from the nations. The "YOU" being discussed is Gog, from the land of Magog, to the north of Israel.
Eze 38: [SUP]8 [/SUP]After many days you will be visited. In the latter years you will come into the land of those brought back from the sword and gathered from many people on the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate; they were brought out of the nations, and now all of them dwell safely...
...[SUP]14 [/SUP]“Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say to Gog, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “On that day when My people Israel dwell safely, will you not know it? [SUP]15 [/SUP]Then you will come from your place out of the far north, you and many peoples with you, all of them riding on horses, a great company and a mighty army. [SUP]16 [/SUP]You will come up against My people Israel like a cloud, to cover the land. It will be in the latter days that I will bring you against My land...
The above is the Great Tribulation spoken of by Jesus in the Olivet. Now comes the Wrath of God in response.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]“And it will come to pass at the same time, when Gog comes against the land of Israel,” says the Lord God, “that My fury will show in My face. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For in My jealousy and in the fire of My wrath I have spoken...
We know from Zech 13 that 2/3 will be cut off.
Zec 13: [SUP]8 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass in all the land,” Says the Lord, “That two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die, But one–third shall be left in it...
Does it make him worse than Hitler? IDK but I would say certainly on par.
Eze 38: [SUP]8 [/SUP]After many days you will be visited. In the latter years you will come into the land of those brought back from the sword and gathered from many people on the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate; they were brought out of the nations, and now all of them dwell safely...
...[SUP]14 [/SUP]“Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say to Gog, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “On that day when My people Israel dwell safely, will you not know it? [SUP]15 [/SUP]Then you will come from your place out of the far north, you and many peoples with you, all of them riding on horses, a great company and a mighty army. [SUP]16 [/SUP]You will come up against My people Israel like a cloud, to cover the land. It will be in the latter days that I will bring you against My land...
The above is the Great Tribulation spoken of by Jesus in the Olivet. Now comes the Wrath of God in response.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]“And it will come to pass at the same time, when Gog comes against the land of Israel,” says the Lord God, “that My fury will show in My face. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For in My jealousy and in the fire of My wrath I have spoken...
We know from Zech 13 that 2/3 will be cut off.
Zec 13: [SUP]8 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass in all the land,” Says the Lord, “That two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die, But one–third shall be left in it...
Does it make him worse than Hitler? IDK but I would say certainly on par.
Turkey is most likely part of the Gog invasion but the invasion spoken of in Eze 38 was certainly not WWI or any historical event. The key is to understand that Gog attacks, AFTER ISRAEL HAS BEEN BROUGHT BACK FROM THE NATIONS WHERE SHE WAS SCATTERED. This didn't happen until 1948. I provided the passage and the passage provides the timing.
Eze 38: [SUP]8 [/SUP]After many days you will be visited. In the latter years you will come into the land of those brought back from the sword and gathered from many people on the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate; they were brought out of the nations, and now all of them dwell safely...
...[SUP]14 [/SUP]“Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say to Gog, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “On that day when My people Israel dwell safely, will you not know it? [SUP]15 [/SUP]Then you will come from your place out of the far north, you and many peoples with you, all of them riding on horses, a great company and a mighty army. [SUP]16 [/SUP]You will come up against My people Israel like a cloud, to cover the land. It will be in the latter days that I will bring you against My land...
This Gog attack is the Great Tribulation.
Eze 38: [SUP]8 [/SUP]After many days you will be visited. In the latter years you will come into the land of those brought back from the sword and gathered from many people on the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate; they were brought out of the nations, and now all of them dwell safely...
...[SUP]14 [/SUP]“Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say to Gog, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “On that day when My people Israel dwell safely, will you not know it? [SUP]15 [/SUP]Then you will come from your place out of the far north, you and many peoples with you, all of them riding on horses, a great company and a mighty army. [SUP]16 [/SUP]You will come up against My people Israel like a cloud, to cover the land. It will be in the latter days that I will bring you against My land...
This Gog attack is the Great Tribulation.
From another perspective. My two cents.
Satan, the antichrist (singular) who has no form , is worse than Hitler...... one of the many antichrists who had form and therefore was seduced by the father of lies, the god of this world, who has no DNA..
The faith principle must be looked into . Looking to make Hitler or any man as one of the many antichrsits, as that seen the Antichrist who is not seen is turning things upside down. The wile of the devil.
The clearest picture that shows the work of the antichrist, Satan (singular) who must use a body (antichrists) , it is shown in Mathew 16 .
It’s not popular, I believe because of some sort of living hope people put in the flesh of the apostles, as if they were in the place of God as an authority . They stand on the same fallow ground as any believer.
Note..... (Purple in parentheses) my addition to help look at the point I am trying to make as the key to understanding
Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan:( the key to understanding the antichrist who needs an outward body, antichrists) thou art an “offence” unto me: for thou savourest not the “things that be of God”(not seen), but “those that be of men”.(that which is seen). Mat 16:22
The antichrists(plural) were already present in the first century, it marked the beginning of the last days we are in, when there was no outward representation, because of the first century reformation, the shadows and types became sight in respect to the Son of man, Jesus. It brought confusion as a terrible tribulation to some seeing some but their faith in that which is seen.
1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
It would seem that the father of lies would like to deceive us that the antichrist has not yet arrived according to some. We, I believe would have to work from the stand point he has been here for the last two thousand years actively, as the accuser of the brethren trying to make the faith of God without effect.
The apostles like us because Judaism had become completely apostate needed to be re -indoctrinated as a work Christ begun in them like us , that he will finish till the last day.
We can see Peter being used as antichrist .We simply must distinguish the things of men seen from the invisible eternal things of God not seen . It is clear that they do offend God. Just as in the garden when Satan, who has no form took the form of a creature causing the fall. God who walked with them by faith the unseen gave them over to the father of lies who then became the god of this world, after the avenues he works in described below, as with natural man .
1Jo 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Satan, the antichrist (singular) who has no form , is worse than Hitler...... one of the many antichrists who had form and therefore was seduced by the father of lies, the god of this world, who has no DNA..
The faith principle must be looked into . Looking to make Hitler or any man as one of the many antichrsits, as that seen the Antichrist who is not seen is turning things upside down. The wile of the devil.
The clearest picture that shows the work of the antichrist, Satan (singular) who must use a body (antichrists) , it is shown in Mathew 16 .
It’s not popular, I believe because of some sort of living hope people put in the flesh of the apostles, as if they were in the place of God as an authority . They stand on the same fallow ground as any believer.
Note..... (Purple in parentheses) my addition to help look at the point I am trying to make as the key to understanding
Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan:( the key to understanding the antichrist who needs an outward body, antichrists) thou art an “offence” unto me: for thou savourest not the “things that be of God”(not seen), but “those that be of men”.(that which is seen). Mat 16:22
The antichrists(plural) were already present in the first century, it marked the beginning of the last days we are in, when there was no outward representation, because of the first century reformation, the shadows and types became sight in respect to the Son of man, Jesus. It brought confusion as a terrible tribulation to some seeing some but their faith in that which is seen.
1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
It would seem that the father of lies would like to deceive us that the antichrist has not yet arrived according to some. We, I believe would have to work from the stand point he has been here for the last two thousand years actively, as the accuser of the brethren trying to make the faith of God without effect.
The apostles like us because Judaism had become completely apostate needed to be re -indoctrinated as a work Christ begun in them like us , that he will finish till the last day.
We can see Peter being used as antichrist .We simply must distinguish the things of men seen from the invisible eternal things of God not seen . It is clear that they do offend God. Just as in the garden when Satan, who has no form took the form of a creature causing the fall. God who walked with them by faith the unseen gave them over to the father of lies who then became the god of this world, after the avenues he works in described below, as with natural man .
1Jo 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
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In the old days, city states were surrounded by walls. This applied also to Jerusalem. Today virtually no city is surrounded by walls to protect them. Today the old city is still surrounded by walls but most of Jerusalem is not.
Are they all dwelling safely? I guess depends on your prospective. There are sporadic terror attacks for sure. But there are currently no nations threatening Israel. Israel is without doubt the most powerful country in the region. Israel's military rebirth is foretold in Eze 37, the Dry Bones coming back to life. This condition did not exist in WW1.
Nothing I said implies that I think any prophesy applies to me. Not sure where that remark is coming from?
Are they all dwelling safely? I guess depends on your prospective. There are sporadic terror attacks for sure. But there are currently no nations threatening Israel. Israel is without doubt the most powerful country in the region. Israel's military rebirth is foretold in Eze 37, the Dry Bones coming back to life. This condition did not exist in WW1.
Nothing I said implies that I think any prophesy applies to me. Not sure where that remark is coming from?
Little Children. It is the last time: and as we have heard that Antichrist shall come even now are there many Antichrists we know that it is the last time.
1 John 2:18
Who is the liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is Antichrist that denieth the father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the the Son the same hath not the Father. He that acknowledgeth the Son hath the father also.
1 John 2 22
Whatever other errors the Catholic Church teaches denying Christ and the Father isn't one of them. Which Pope has ever denied them? Which body of people who existed when John penned his letter and exist now are there that deny that Jesus is the
Christ? look no further than unbelieving Israel
1 John 2:18
Who is the liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is Antichrist that denieth the father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the the Son the same hath not the Father. He that acknowledgeth the Son hath the father also.
1 John 2 22
Whatever other errors the Catholic Church teaches denying Christ and the Father isn't one of them. Which Pope has ever denied them? Which body of people who existed when John penned his letter and exist now are there that deny that Jesus is the
Christ? look no further than unbelieving Israel
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Brother tanakh,
I always enjoy your posts,
Israel, yes, in the context,
but also Caesar, who destroyed the temple in 70 ad. yes?
"many" Antichrists.
=================================
The RCC,
If the Bishop of Rome is the "Holy Father", where does that place Jesus?
If the BoR says that he has more authority than the Bible (words of Jesus), who has more authority?
If the BoR forgives the sins of men against God, then Jesus must obey him, and forgive the sin.
Doesn't it seem like that he is saying that he is greater than Jesus?
The Bor claims to be the ONLY, ONLY TRUE ISRAEL, CHURCH!
Who speaks and has two horns like a lamb, (is not a lamb, goat)? Matt 25
I always enjoy your posts,
Israel, yes, in the context,
but also Caesar, who destroyed the temple in 70 ad. yes?
"many" Antichrists.
=================================
The RCC,
If the Bishop of Rome is the "Holy Father", where does that place Jesus?
If the BoR says that he has more authority than the Bible (words of Jesus), who has more authority?
If the BoR forgives the sins of men against God, then Jesus must obey him, and forgive the sin.
Doesn't it seem like that he is saying that he is greater than Jesus?
The Bor claims to be the ONLY, ONLY TRUE ISRAEL, CHURCH!
Who speaks and has two horns like a lamb, (is not a lamb, goat)? Matt 25
Who else? How about Muslims? They flat out say that Allah is the God of the Universe and that he (Allah) has no Son.
Those in Israel believe in the Messiah, they just didn't believe Christ Jesus was the Messiah. They made this mistake largely because they only saw the passages that dealt with Christ coming with power and great glory to defeat their enemies. This missed that two appearances were actually taught. The one where the Messiah comes as a sheep to the slaughter was overlooked. If they had just understood Isa 53, they might have recognized Him.
Also to note, many Jews in fact did recognize Jesus as their Messiah, it just wasn't the corrupt ruling class. Jesus had multitudes of Jewish followers in His day. His early churches were in fact Jewish.
Again, think ISLAM. That's the real false religion, not Judaism. Just look one chapter more in Isaiah and you have your answer.
Isa 54:1: “Sing, O barren, You who have not borne! Break forth into singing, and cry aloud, You who have not labored with child! For more are the children of the desolate Than the children of the married woman,” says the Lord.
The Jews have a husband. He is our God. See?
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For your Maker is your husband, The Lord of hosts is His name; And your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel; He is called the God of the whole earth.
Muslims are children of Hagar who had no husband. Paul repeats this passage in Gal 4 and provides more context. The "Desolate" in this passage are Muslims.
Those in Israel believe in the Messiah, they just didn't believe Christ Jesus was the Messiah. They made this mistake largely because they only saw the passages that dealt with Christ coming with power and great glory to defeat their enemies. This missed that two appearances were actually taught. The one where the Messiah comes as a sheep to the slaughter was overlooked. If they had just understood Isa 53, they might have recognized Him.
Also to note, many Jews in fact did recognize Jesus as their Messiah, it just wasn't the corrupt ruling class. Jesus had multitudes of Jewish followers in His day. His early churches were in fact Jewish.
Again, think ISLAM. That's the real false religion, not Judaism. Just look one chapter more in Isaiah and you have your answer.
Isa 54:1: “Sing, O barren, You who have not borne! Break forth into singing, and cry aloud, You who have not labored with child! For more are the children of the desolate Than the children of the married woman,” says the Lord.
The Jews have a husband. He is our God. See?
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For your Maker is your husband, The Lord of hosts is His name; And your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel; He is called the God of the whole earth.
Muslims are children of Hagar who had no husband. Paul repeats this passage in Gal 4 and provides more context. The "Desolate" in this passage are Muslims.
John said that the Antichrist is someone who does not believe that Jesus is the Christ. Christ is an English translation of the Greek word for Messiah. The Jews did not and do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah. There were no Muslims in Johns time ao the people who received his letter would not have thought of anyone else in connection with a Messiah apart from the Jews of their day. References to Hagar and Ishmael in the Bible are in connection with the Law not with a religion that appeared some 600 years after the New Testament was written.
Of course there were believing Jews in the early church. Every leader of the Jerusalem Church was Jewish up until 70 AD
Jewish believers were still active in the Church as a whole in the time of Constantine and beyond. There were and still are many others who do not believe or are Judaisers. Paul spent a great deal of time opposing these people. Modern Judaism
is the direct descendent of the Pharisees. When they speak of the Law,(Torah) they do not have the five books of Moses in mind but the Talmud which they believe to be Oral Torah that was put in writing centuries ago. Judaism revolves around the Talmud which includes traditions condemned by Jesus and Blasphemous statements regarding him.
Of course there were believing Jews in the early church. Every leader of the Jerusalem Church was Jewish up until 70 AD
Jewish believers were still active in the Church as a whole in the time of Constantine and beyond. There were and still are many others who do not believe or are Judaisers. Paul spent a great deal of time opposing these people. Modern Judaism
is the direct descendent of the Pharisees. When they speak of the Law,(Torah) they do not have the five books of Moses in mind but the Talmud which they believe to be Oral Torah that was put in writing centuries ago. Judaism revolves around the Talmud which includes traditions condemned by Jesus and Blasphemous statements regarding him.
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