The faith is dead without the works according to the faith.
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K
The problem with that is that people are falsely taught salvation is physically ours right now, but the truth is the bible only shows it as a mental assurance of receiving it by keeping our faith firm in the Lord Jesus.
I will show you just one verse of many from Paul that shows actually physical possession of salvation comes at the end of our faith, not toward or at the beginning;
Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
I personally can tell you, that before I have not do at any works according to the faith what I believe I had, and now when I look back in that time, I have to think that my faith was not true, in back there, because I do not really know our Lord, and God, in the early time in my turning.
Today people's likes to idea that the man do not need the works according to the faith, but just faith is in enough, and I believe that they do not follow the Lord in honest heart.
Do not deceive your selves.
Today people's likes to idea that the man do not need the works according to the faith, but just faith is in enough, and I believe that they do not follow the Lord in honest heart.
Do not deceive your selves.
R
Yes hence why there is an ongoing thread on this subject. You can still preach the same as you are on here on that very thread. Its good that you are concerned about this subject and want this subject to be heard more and understood more. but why start a thread on teh same subject as someone else? Just saying! But Thank God for repeated threads.
The problem is not whether you need work/good work or not. Good work is not requirement of salvation. It is product of salvation if the situation permitted. If you die a second after you accept/have a faith in Jesus you will go to haven. In this case the situation not permitted for you to show your fruit before man.
Salvation is by faith not work, work is evident, not requirement.
Ironically, Catholic, teach salvation by work in reality they do inquisition which bad work not good work.
Salvation is by faith not work, work is evident, not requirement.
Ironically, Catholic, teach salvation by work in reality they do inquisition which bad work not good work.
If you teach, that not by the work according to the faith, but just faith, you only feed the big delusion where the christianity is today, when people's have reject the living faith, and do nothing more than claim to be a true christian's, and saved, by that false faith what they have.
So what is the purposes of that doctrine what you give?
So what is the purposes of that doctrine what you give?
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What you are teaching, is not from the Spirit of truth. You give the man a possibility to avoid the good work's of the living faith, and you teach just like the people's in the lie want to hear, and this kind of false doctrines are the some of the big reasons for situation what we face in today's christianity.
The christianity has lost the way of the Lord, and today's people's want to hear that they do have that hope, even though they do not are a true follower of the Lord Jesus Christ.
The christianity has lost the way of the Lord, and today's people's want to hear that they do have that hope, even though they do not are a true follower of the Lord Jesus Christ.
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I see a difference here. I don't see any claim that works are necessary for Salvation. I see here an appeal to Eph 2:10 and James Chapter 1.
Mikko, correct me if I am wrong; but you seem to be saying that 'Salvation that doesn't produce works is missing a vital part'.
If that is what Mikko is saying, then a separate thread is quite proper IMO.
Mikko, correct me if I am wrong; but you seem to be saying that 'Salvation that doesn't produce works is missing a vital part'.
If that is what Mikko is saying, then a separate thread is quite proper IMO.
let me repeat my question: If a person accept the Lord and die in the next second will he go to hell?
I am not saying that killer, rapist go to heaven unless he repent.
I am saying good work is product of salvation not all the way around.
Good work is evident of salvation in the eyes of human. You see tree by it fruit.
That is way I am don't believe catholic is christian, his fruit is inquisition/killing and killing.
Oh ya I am not teaching anything. I am only repeat from the bible.
I am not saying that killer, rapist go to heaven unless he repent.
I am saying good work is product of salvation not all the way around.
Good work is evident of salvation in the eyes of human. You see tree by it fruit.
That is way I am don't believe catholic is christian, his fruit is inquisition/killing and killing.
Oh ya I am not teaching anything. I am only repeat from the bible.
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There are 3 tenses to salvation. 1. Believers "have been" saved from the penalty of sin (Justification); 2. Believers are "being saved" from the power of sin (ongoing/progressive Sanctification) 3. Believers "will be saved" from the presence of sin (Glorification). Which tense do you believe is being discussed in Romans 13:11?
In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works. This is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith. James gives us the test for genuine faith: like the faith of Abraham, it results in producing works. James DOES NOT teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine.
In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. No! The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save his soul, but it proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works.
In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.
Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not on the merits of our works. It is through faith "IN CHRIST" alone (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine saving faith in Christ (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.*
In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. No! The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save his soul, but it proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works.
In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.
Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not on the merits of our works. It is through faith "IN CHRIST" alone (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine saving faith in Christ (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.*
You do not repeat the message of the Bible, but instead you bend the message to the other.
Our dear brother Paul was a apostle, as we know, and he was a good apostle, but still he was not count him self to those who was saved, in his letter for Philippians.
11. if by any means I may attain unto the resurrection from the dead. 12. Not that I have already obtained, or am already made perfect: but I press on, if so be that I may lay hold on that for which also I was laid hold on by Christ Jesus. 13. Brethren, I could not myself yet to have laid hold: but one thing I do, forgetting the things which are behind, and stretching forward to the things which are before, (Philippians 3:11-13)
And to answer for you question. I can't promises for the place on the life, or the death for anyone, but I can exhort to people's to do they best, like the Bible also exhort us to do. But the situation what you describe to me, do not sound so good for me, and I do not see the point to teach that kind of doctrines, but I see that easily people's may use this kind of lesson, what you bring to avoid the good work's of the faith, like they do today.
Our dear brother Paul was a apostle, as we know, and he was a good apostle, but still he was not count him self to those who was saved, in his letter for Philippians.
11. if by any means I may attain unto the resurrection from the dead. 12. Not that I have already obtained, or am already made perfect: but I press on, if so be that I may lay hold on that for which also I was laid hold on by Christ Jesus. 13. Brethren, I could not myself yet to have laid hold: but one thing I do, forgetting the things which are behind, and stretching forward to the things which are before, (Philippians 3:11-13)
And to answer for you question. I can't promises for the place on the life, or the death for anyone, but I can exhort to people's to do they best, like the Bible also exhort us to do. But the situation what you describe to me, do not sound so good for me, and I do not see the point to teach that kind of doctrines, but I see that easily people's may use this kind of lesson, what you bring to avoid the good work's of the faith, like they do today.
B
Yes, God wants us to have a living faith and not a passive or dead one. We all agree to that, but we also know that our justification concerning sin before a holy God is only through the work of the cross. We are justified in that manner by faith because there is no work we could do to justify ourselves unto righteousness for that only comes through the Son of God who was judged for us, who crucified all sin and who is our righteousness.
A living faith and not a dead one is based upon the work of the cross accomplished by Christ through his death, burial and resurrection. The good works that we do are motivated by the love of God we have in our hearts through the indwelling Spirit of God. These are simple works that are not done through the energy of the flesh but by faith through the Spirit. The Spirit teaches us how to intercede and that is a good work that we make ourselves available by faith. Loving others and ministering grace to people who need it is a good work. Being kind, courteous, tenderhearted, forgiving and bearing the burdens of others are all good works that we can be steadfast to maintain as we grow in grace and knowledge of Christ.
There are many more good works that we can provoke one another with in the love of God but non of these are necessary proof that we are saved or have been justified by the grace of God. If we are able and available to do these works then we should do them by faith according to the measure of grace we are given and when we do we have a living faith that makes an invisible God visible in this present evil world in which we live.
A living faith and not a dead one is based upon the work of the cross accomplished by Christ through his death, burial and resurrection. The good works that we do are motivated by the love of God we have in our hearts through the indwelling Spirit of God. These are simple works that are not done through the energy of the flesh but by faith through the Spirit. The Spirit teaches us how to intercede and that is a good work that we make ourselves available by faith. Loving others and ministering grace to people who need it is a good work. Being kind, courteous, tenderhearted, forgiving and bearing the burdens of others are all good works that we can be steadfast to maintain as we grow in grace and knowledge of Christ.
There are many more good works that we can provoke one another with in the love of God but non of these are necessary proof that we are saved or have been justified by the grace of God. If we are able and available to do these works then we should do them by faith according to the measure of grace we are given and when we do we have a living faith that makes an invisible God visible in this present evil world in which we live.
When a Jew asked Jesus what he needed to do to be saved, Jesus told him he needed to obey the 10 commandments and love his neighbor, and deny the world and follow Him. The man was very rich and refused to deny the world and follow Jesus.
Denying the the world and following Jesus alone is not all that Jesus said was required.
Just a thought.
Denying the the world and following Jesus alone is not all that Jesus said was required.
Just a thought.