The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !
- Thread starter svedbygrace
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J
So then why say yes the first time? You saw the question.
Yet, his choice is a requirement for salvation is it not?
The problem you have here is you have no use for regeneration. That and you equate the availability of choosing with the ability of choosing.
Elephants do what elephants do, not what ducks do.
Yet, his choice is a requirement for salvation is it not?
I never said we had a lot of choices. 
Elephants do what elephants do, not what ducks do.
Christ's work destroyed the power of sin, but he also gave man free will, and honors man's choices.
It's not really true that all are in terminal unbelief. Jesus said his sheep hear his voice, and those who are not his sheep don't. All that learn of the father come to Christ. This learning happens prior to salvational belief. Those who don't hear, don't learn, and don't come to Christ. Christ is only interested in those who love him enough to follow him.
It's not really true that all are in terminal unbelief. Jesus said his sheep hear his voice, and those who are not his sheep don't. All that learn of the father come to Christ. This learning happens prior to salvational belief. Those who don't hear, don't learn, and don't come to Christ. Christ is only interested in those who love him enough to follow him.
The same word "kosmos" is used in all the below verses. Now, what could the word world possibly mean? Every inhabitant on earth or a few chosen ones?
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[kosmos | kos'-mos |
probably from the base of 'komizo' (STRONG_G2865); orderly arrangement, i.e. decoration; by implication, the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively (morally)):--adorning, world.
Mt 4:8: Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;]
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Mt 5:14: Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Mt 13:35: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world
Mt 13:38: The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mt 16:26: For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
Mt 18:7: Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
Mt 24:21: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mt 25:34: Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mt 26:13: Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.
Sorry for the double post. I actually meant to reply to svedbygrace and not to jimmydiggs.
The same word "kosmos" is used in all the below verses. Now, what could the word world possibly mean? Every inhabitant on earth or a few chosen ones?
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[kosmos | kos'-mos |
probably from the base of 'komizo' (STRONG_G2865); orderly arrangement, i.e. decoration; by implication, the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively (morally)):--adorning, world.
Mt 4:8: Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;]
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Mt 5:14: Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Mt 13:35: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world
Mt 13:38: The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mt 16:26: For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
Mt 18:7: Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
Mt 24:21: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mt 25:34: Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mt 26:13: Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.
The same word "kosmos" is used in all the below verses. Now, what could the word world possibly mean? Every inhabitant on earth or a few chosen ones?
------------------------------------------------------------------
[kosmos | kos'-mos |
probably from the base of 'komizo' (STRONG_G2865); orderly arrangement, i.e. decoration; by implication, the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively (morally)):--adorning, world.
Mt 4:8: Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;]
------------------------------------------------------------------
Mt 5:14: Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Mt 13:35: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world
Mt 13:38: The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mt 16:26: For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
Mt 18:7: Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
Mt 24:21: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mt 25:34: Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mt 26:13: Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.
I would not have you ignorant,..
[h=3]2 Corinthians 5:14-15[/h]New American Standard Bible (NASB)
14 For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died; 15 and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.
[h=3]2 Corinthians 5:14-15[/h]New American Standard Bible (NASB)
14 For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died; 15 and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.
B
In all respect to your faith and your persona, I humbly disagree with your premise on "conditional" because salvation is not dependent on humans. Salvation is completely available to all humans regardless of human opinion, lack of response or human anemic choices.
As for what's the point for God to save humans when God knows all along the damning condition of humans, that's the whole point of saving grace. God has provided the solution regardless of how futile and stubbornly problematic humans are. In other words, just because somebody will never understand Calculus, that doesn't mean those who do master mathematics are idiots for attempting to explain calculus to others. LOL
Also, just because idiots exists, that doesn't mean calculus is faulty.
As for the rest of your statement, it's Calvinism
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Rom 5:19
19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
If we do not believe in the Jesus Christ, that by His obedience alone, many shalll be made righteous, then we do not believe in the Christ of Holy scripture. His obedience alone, as in the obedience of ONE, shal make many to be righteous.
If we include, our Faith, our repentance, anything we do, water baptism and etc, or any act of obedience of ours, to constitute us righteous, then we do not believe in the Christ of scripture and the accomplishment of His obedience unto death. 129
19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
If we do not believe in the Jesus Christ, that by His obedience alone, many shalll be made righteous, then we do not believe in the Christ of Holy scripture. His obedience alone, as in the obedience of ONE, shal make many to be righteous.
If we include, our Faith, our repentance, anything we do, water baptism and etc, or any act of obedience of ours, to constitute us righteous, then we do not believe in the Christ of scripture and the accomplishment of His obedience unto death. 129
H
How can two people use the same Bible and be so blind to the proof texts of the other person,and keep fighting for "their side" of God's truth! ? . LOL This is sooo serious, other wise, if would be sooo funny. ? OH,OH,oooH, please ,cry at this point ! Seriously, The word of GOD is so exacting ! sooo perfect ! let's stop, tearing it apart !! Part of our study is to "rightly divide" the Bible into topics; then we must put it back together as an intelligent whole according to the intent of all the parts. Use this analogy, an elephant, some hold the tail and say,this is an elephant; others hold the trunk and say, no, this is an elephant. NOW both of you stand back, walk around the elephant, holding hands as brothers of the same Creator, , and see what the elephant really is.!? GOT IT ! Walk, together ,thru the Bible and discover the wonderfully, full Word of our living GOD. The Bible presents two sides to the death of Christ. Mt. 20:28 "...to give His life a ransom for Many." But, NOW, look at 1Tim.2:6 "Who gave Himself a ransom for all,..." NOW, we have "divided" out two phrases from the Bible: NOW lets put them together, in an intelligent way. Please, how do they work together ? Love for all, Hoffco
Salvation is completely available to all humans regardless of human opinion, lack of response or human anemic choices.
As for what's the point for God to save humans when God knows all along the damning condition of humans, that's the whole point of saving grace.
You are saying that rapists...murderers...unbelievers can get the same salvation along with the believers. If that is the case then all will go to heaven including the sinners and no one will get punished of the bad things they have done.
It's "conditional" because it's only for the willing heart or the chosen few. ive never said "salvation is dependent on men". We are saved because the Lord revealed Himself to us and chose us. It's not really our repentance...our prayer...our own effort which can save us but because the Lord already chose us before the foundation of the world. He chose you because He knew you're gonna say " YES" to His Son Jesus.
Ok God bless
As for what's the point for God to save humans when God knows all along the damning condition of humans, that's the whole point of saving grace.
You are saying that rapists...murderers...unbelievers can get the same salvation along with the believers. If that is the case then all will go to heaven including the sinners and no one will get punished of the bad things they have done.
It's "conditional" because it's only for the willing heart or the chosen few. ive never said "salvation is dependent on men". We are saved because the Lord revealed Himself to us and chose us. It's not really our repentance...our prayer...our own effort which can save us but because the Lord already chose us before the foundation of the world. He chose you because He knew you're gonna say " YES" to His Son Jesus.
Ok God bless
H
May we, continue our study, hand in hand. God makes no mistakes in His word. Both "many" and "all" are in the Bible, Sooo, don't fight it, leave them both in the Bible.! Look for the verses that say"all", like 1Tim.2:6, Jh.3:16 "the world" the lost, sinful world of mankind. and Rom. 5:6,8,10,12,18 "death... to all men,...", "...the free gift came to all,..." v. 17 to "those who receive ...grace.." sooo, on the one hand, the gift is for only those who receive Jesus. Jesus death makes salvation possible for "all" but is only for those who receive Jesus. NOW, on the other hand, Jesus died for the "many" ,Look for verses that say"many". like, Mt.20:28, and Rom. 5:15,19, "The gift... abounded to many." "many will be MADE righteous." only, the "many" will be "born of God", Made righteous in heart and conduct. The "many" are the "elect"of God, the ones who "in love" were "predestined... to adoption" by "the Father" ,Eph.1:3-5. This is how to "rightly divide"(relate) the word of God; to make a systematic whole of all the parts of God's Word. Love to all. Hoffco