The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !
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Reading more of the Word, that is, reading more of our Lord, we know that the Most High God is answered by a people He did not call. We also know of the other flock spoken of by Yeshua, the one He is joining with the original flock. We also know that the Almighty God will rule over all nations. There is much more. He shines a light for those who have sat in darkness, and much more. When a person does not believe he has been created, that would be following the enemy, Satan. It is a choice. God gives all people time to repent, and if a person has not had that time, God is good and just, and He knows what action is to be taken. Trust Him, not the flesh.
But that's only half of the story. The other half is receiving the spirit of life. Without holiness, no man will see or abide with GOD. Debt's forgiven, but they reject the gift. GOD doesn't condemn them; they condemn themselves.
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. John 3:19-20
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. John 3:19-20
Hi HRFTD,
I understand what you are saying.
But what I am asking...rejecting Jesus' work on the cross, and rejecting Grace, is that not a sin that has already been paid for. For Christs work on the cross to be effectual then all sins of all time would have to have been forgiven.. that would include man rejecting God's Grace or free gift, whatever way you want to put it.
So it makes more sense to me that limited atonement is actually biblical.. if it is what you say then Christ's work may only provide salvation it all depends on man.
This is very true:
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. John 3:19-20
I understand what you are saying.
But what I am asking...rejecting Jesus' work on the cross, and rejecting Grace, is that not a sin that has already been paid for. For Christs work on the cross to be effectual then all sins of all time would have to have been forgiven.. that would include man rejecting God's Grace or free gift, whatever way you want to put it.
So it makes more sense to me that limited atonement is actually biblical.. if it is what you say then Christ's work may only provide salvation it all depends on man.
This is very true:
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. John 3:19-20
All are sinners, until belief then God sees us as Holy, thanks to Son Christ
Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead
Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
1 John 2:2 and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name’s sake.
Romans 4:7 saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Colossians 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead
Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
1 John 2:2 and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name’s sake.
Romans 4:7 saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Colossians 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:15 and that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
Ephesians 2:16 and that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Colossians 1:20 and, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Colossians 2:14 blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Romans 1:5 by whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Romans 3:22 even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Romans 3:23 for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Romans 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Romans 16:26 but now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Galatians 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
It all boils down to this one thing, and that is whether one believes God or not? period
Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
Ephesians 2:16 and that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Colossians 1:20 and, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Colossians 2:14 blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Romans 1:5 by whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Romans 3:22 even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Romans 3:23 for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Romans 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Romans 16:26 but now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Galatians 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
It all boils down to this one thing, and that is whether one believes God or not? period
So show us where God only died for an elect few. the only elect that I know of are the first chosen, and this has nothing to do with the gentile. For the Jews are the elect. And God's Mercy goes out to all, so if all believe then all will be saved
Acts 13:39 and by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Acts 13:41 Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.
Romans 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
So again either one believes God loves them and died for them then rose again for them or they don't. It is really this simple
Acts 13:39 and by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Acts 13:41 Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.
Romans 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
So again either one believes God loves them and died for them then rose again for them or they don't. It is really this simple
Love these verses and thanks for it is showing us all the depth, the breadth of God's Love though Christ at the cross for us all if we will belief. Do you agree?
[h=3]1 John 4:18-20[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. [SUP]19 [/SUP]We love him, because he first loved us.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
[h=3]Ephesians 3:17-19[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, [SUP]18 [/SUP]may be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; [SUP]19 [/SUP]and to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fullness of God.
It is God's Mercy to all that will believe will see and receive.
[h=3]1 John 4:18-20[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. [SUP]19 [/SUP]We love him, because he first loved us.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
[h=3]Ephesians 3:17-19[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, [SUP]18 [/SUP]may be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; [SUP]19 [/SUP]and to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fullness of God.
It is God's Mercy to all that will believe will see and receive.
1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
Hi homeward bound,
Does the 'all' in each verse above mean the same thing? don't think it does.
I'll give you an example:
1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
Who are the 'all' Paul is talking to here? and more to the point most of the above. and actually, grammatically how is that all placed.
Are you sure? I rejected grace almost all my life.. I did not even seek God. The unforgivable sin is that against the Holy Spirit.
Yes, I am saved bt grace now and forgiven.
What you are saying is that Christ did not pay for the sin of rejecting him.. He most certainly did. I can personally testify to that.
Chrsits perfect work is not effectual based on mans decision, so how can Jesus have paid the price for ALL mens sins including rejection and yet man still goes to hell.. so what sins didn't Jesus pay for?
Christs perfect work on the cross covers all the sins..thats all sins (notice I say all here and it doesn't mean everyone..but talks of sins?), but it is only effectual and applied to his children, those whom he elected. and yet I can agree with scripture that all men are required to repent.
Yes, I am saved bt grace now and forgiven.
What you are saying is that Christ did not pay for the sin of rejecting him.. He most certainly did. I can personally testify to that.
Chrsits perfect work is not effectual based on mans decision, so how can Jesus have paid the price for ALL mens sins including rejection and yet man still goes to hell.. so what sins didn't Jesus pay for?
Christs perfect work on the cross covers all the sins..thats all sins (notice I say all here and it doesn't mean everyone..but talks of sins?), but it is only effectual and applied to his children, those whom he elected. and yet I can agree with scripture that all men are required to repent.
So the power of salvation lies within my hands? I do something, then Jesus saves me.
Only way to go:
Only way to go:
Romans 12:3 (NASB) [SUP]3 [/SUP]For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.
John 6:44 (NASB) [SUP]44 [/SUP]"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
And man has free will to make a free choice, too.
