THE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE DOES NOT FIT LAST DAYS PROPHECY ABOUT NOAH

abcdef · Aug 17, 2016

abcdef

With respect, I would like to suggest a few “revisions” in your response above, if I may.

First, WE ARE ALL CONFUSED AND MIXED UP in our understanding of the Scriptures in one way or another. You may well be correct in all that you posted, but to insult Ahwatukee because, in your opinion, you are correct in understanding one area of the Scriptures and, from your perspective, he is not, will generally not encourage a person to thoughtfully consider your position.

What’s more, there is a good chance, the nature of life being what it is, that there are things about the Bible he understands better than yourself. (Although I am firmly against Dispensationalism in general, I admit that I have benefited quite a bit from many who hold that position.)

“Don’t attack the messenger just because he believes every part of his message to be true.”

(FWIW, “lying” implies that he knows the truth and is intentionally attempting to deceive. I am confident that Ahwatukee is not “lying” but has simply [and innocently] been instructed into his position, as I once was. Charging him with lying is, in my opinion, “counterproductive” to say the least.)

It is simply human nature to resist and negatively react against such accusations.

But, respectfully, the more personal assaults one makes against those who disagree with him, the less Christian maturity one is demonstrating,in my opinion.

I often take this to mean that the less they understand and obey the Bible in the first place. I am merely indicating my emotional first reaction. After my first emotional reaction, I try to thoughtfully consider what they say anyway.

(See how I didn’t make any direct accusations against you?

Nor did I mean any.

)

The point is that even when one is unconditionally correct (as I am right now.

), I am “pretty sure” we are to demonstrate a gentle helpful instructive spirit towards towards our brethren who disagree with us.

If a given person is, HYPOTHETICALLY, “indoctrinated” into an incorrect theology, calling them names and insulting them will do little to help them break free of that indoctrination. (Sorry, but that is the nature of us silly humans.)

However, I trust that by treating a person respectfully, as a brother or sister, and trying to work with them through how they might be misunderstanding the truth of God’s Word, that is, His one and only human born Son, God can work in their heart and mind and life to bring them closer to Himself. I cannot argue anyone closer to God. I can only pray for them and try to present the correct information on God’s behalf.

I also trust that no matter how “wrong” I think they are, God might want me to learn something from them, at the very least, how I can better reflect Him to them as I help them work through their thinking process and maybe even support them as they break through their “indoctrination”.

You see, I have been, and still am, indoctrinated in any number of ways, and God has been very patient working with me as I tried to figure out what the truth is about life, the Bible, and Himself. I want Him to continue to be patient with me and help me understand where I am wrong, and more than anything else, help me be more like Him.

So, by trying to treat others as He has already treated me, I am learning a little bit more about what it means to be godly.

I make no claims about having accomplished anything like that, but I am hoping that I am at least smelling the general direction of what that might be.

I invite you to simply ask God for clarification in this.

Thank you.

Before I joined CC, I was very confused and unconfident in my thinking. Now I am very confident we are all confused in our thinking.

Brother EarnestQ,

Did you confuse brother DP's post with mine?

abcdef · Aug 17, 2016

abcdef said:

And by the way, I would never point my finger at a brother and call him/her a lair, that is the devil's spirit.

Yahweh_is_gracious · Aug 17, 2016

Kind of off topic comment:

I was doing pretty good following this thread up until a couple pages back, and then I lost where everyone was trying to go with it. I can, as someone who is really ignorant about doctrine, see how either side of this argument can be argued based on a person's interpretation of the Scriptures, but I don't think (and again this is from my limited understanding), that either side of the argument has a smoking gun to prove their position. As of yet, I am not willing to cast my lot in wither either side of the pre/post tribulation argument.

My apologies for the off topic comment. Please go back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Ahwatukee · Aug 17, 2016

Good day John,

I don't know why you would claim the above, when I have continued to proclaim how close we are to the Lord's appearing, which will be followed by God's wrath. In addition, I have spoken on many posts regarding end-time events and that we are in those last days. My posts will speak for themselves. So, what you are claiming above could not be further from the truth.

If by "the camp of the saints" you are referring to those who march across the breadth of the earth and surrounds the camp of God's people, the city that he loves, as described in Rev.20, you are only misapplying scripture. Scripture makes clear that this event does not take place until the very end of the thousand year reign of Christ. Also, the church is not Israel, as they are two separate entities with separate programs. Israel being the nation Israel proper who did not recognize her Messiah and the church being made up of both Jew and Gentile. Regarding this, the church will be removed prior to that seven year period of God's wrath. As for Israel, she will be here during that seven year period to fulfill the following:

"finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place." (Dan.9:24)

You are incorrect, for regarding Israel's safety, Scripture says the following:

"The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days."

"The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth.

The dragon, who is identified as Satan, is cast out of heaven in the middle of that seven year period and goes after the woman, who according to Gen.37:9-10 represents the nation Israel. The dragon/Satan sends a flood after the woman, which is symbolic for an army, and God opens up the earth and swallows up the flood/army. God has a place prepared for the woman/Israel where they will be cared for 1,260, which is that last 3 1/2 years before Christ returns to end the age.

One of the things that the seven heads represent are a succession of seven kings.

Five have fallen = five kings have ruled and gone

One is = At the time that John was receiving this information, king number six was ruling

The other has not come = From Johns perspective, king number seven was still future, but in the past to us

The eighth king = The beast who once was, no is not and yet will come up out of the Abyss. He is that angel of the Abyss who is the king of those demonic beings who torment men for five months when they are let out of the Abyss at the 5th trumpet. He is the one who will control the antichrist and through him will proclaim himself to be God.

This head, the eighth king, is that same head that suffers a fatal wound and survives. The antichrist will be an actual man who, along with the false prophet will be thrown alive into the lake of fire when the Lord returns to end the age. The beast is represented as being Satan who is orchestrating these things, as a kingdom and as a king. The seven heads of the beast represent seven kings and they also represent seven hills/mountains upon which the woman who rides the beast, sits on.

If these succession of kings are representing Roman emperors, then we would could easily find out who king six was, as he was the one ruling when John was receiving that information from the angel. Emperor/king number seven would then be the one who followed king number six. Personally, I'm not concerned about the seventh king, but about the eighth king, who is still to come, that antichrist.

PennEd · Aug 17, 2016

Sorry fellas, but I gotta put some on ignore simply because of the ridiculously long posts.
Can't you please just post a link to an interminibly loooong article? Scrolling through is no fun.

abcdef · Aug 17, 2016

Ahwatukee said:

Good day John,

I don't know why you would claim the above, when I have continued to proclaim how close we are to the Lord's appearing, which will be followed by God's wrath. In addition, I have spoken on many posts regarding end-time events and that we are in those last days. My posts will speak for themselves. So, what you are claiming above could not be further from the truth.

If by "the camp of the saints" you are referring to those who march across the breadth of the earth and surrounds the camp of God's people, the city that he loves, as described in Rev.20, you are only misapplying scripture. Scripture makes clear that this event does not take place until the very end of the thousand year reign of Christ. Also, the church is not Israel, as they are two separate entities with separate programs. Israel being the nation Israel proper who did not recognize her Messiah and the church being made up of both Jew and Gentile. Regarding this, the church will be removed prior to that seven year period of God's wrath. As for Israel, she will be here during that seven year period to fulfill the following:

"finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place." (Dan.9:24)

You are incorrect, for regarding Israel's safety, Scripture says the following:

"The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days."

"The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth.

The dragon, who is identified as Satan, is cast out of heaven in the middle of that seven year period and goes after the woman, who according to Gen.37:9-10 represents the nation Israel. The dragon/Satan sends a flood after the woman, which is symbolic for an army, and God opens up the earth and swallows up the flood/army. God has a place prepared for the woman/Israel where they will be cared for 1,260, which is that last 3 1/2 years before Christ returns to end the age.

One of the things that the seven heads represent are a succession of seven kings.

Five have fallen = five kings have ruled and gone

One is = At the time that John was receiving this information, king number six was ruling

The other has not come = From Johns perspective, king number seven was still future, but in the past to us

The eighth king = The beast who once was, no is not and yet will come up out of the Abyss. He is that angel of the Abyss who is the king of those demonic beings who torment men for five months when they are let out of the Abyss at the 5th trumpet. He is the one who will control the antichrist and through him will proclaim himself to be God.

This head, the eighth king, is that same head that suffers a fatal wound and survives. The antichrist will be an actual man who, along with the false prophet will be thrown alive into the lake of fire when the Lord returns to end the age. The beast is represented as being Satan who is orchestrating these things, as a kingdom and as a king. The seven heads of the beast represent seven kings and they also represent seven hills/mountains upon which the woman who rides the beast, sits on.

If these succession of kings are representing Roman emperors, then we would could easily find out who king six was, as he was the one ruling when John was receiving that information from the angel. Emperor/king number seven would then be the one who followed king number six. Personally, I'm not concerned about the seventh king, but about the eighth king, who is still to come, that antichrist.

Brother Ahwatukee,

If the seventh head is the Caesar who follows the one of John's time,

What about all the rest of the Caesars?

Which head do they belong to?

abcdef · Aug 17, 2016

Ahwatukee said:

Good day John,

I don't know why you would claim the above, when I have continued to proclaim how close we are to the Lord's appearing, which will be followed by God's wrath. In addition, I have spoken on many posts regarding end-time events and that we are in those last days. My posts will speak for themselves. So, what you are claiming above could not be further from the truth.

If by "the camp of the saints" you are referring to those who march across the breadth of the earth and surrounds the camp of God's people, the city that he loves, as described in Rev.20, you are only misapplying scripture. Scripture makes clear that this event does not take place until the very end of the thousand year reign of Christ. Also, the church is not Israel, as they are two separate entities with separate programs. Israel being the nation Israel proper who did not recognize her Messiah and the church being made up of both Jew and Gentile. Regarding this, the church will be removed prior to that seven year period of God's wrath. As for Israel, she will be here during that seven year period to fulfill the following:

"finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place." (Dan.9:24)

You are incorrect, for regarding Israel's safety, Scripture says the following:

"The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days."

"The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth.

The dragon, who is identified as Satan, is cast out of heaven in the middle of that seven year period and goes after the woman, who according to Gen.37:9-10 represents the nation Israel. The dragon/Satan sends a flood after the woman, which is symbolic for an army, and God opens up the earth and swallows up the flood/army. God has a place prepared for the woman/Israel where they will be cared for 1,260, which is that last 3 1/2 years before Christ returns to end the age.

One of the things that the seven heads represent are a succession of seven kings.

Five have fallen = five kings have ruled and gone

One is = At the time that John was receiving this information, king number six was ruling

The other has not come = From Johns perspective, king number seven was still future, but in the past to us

The eighth king = The beast who once was, no is not and yet will come up out of the Abyss. He is that angel of the Abyss who is the king of those demonic beings who torment men for five months when they are let out of the Abyss at the 5th trumpet. He is the one who will control the antichrist and through him will proclaim himself to be God.

This head, the eighth king, is that same head that suffers a fatal wound and survives. The antichrist will be an actual man who, along with the false prophet will be thrown alive into the lake of fire when the Lord returns to end the age. The beast is represented as being Satan who is orchestrating these things, as a kingdom and as a king. The seven heads of the beast represent seven kings and they also represent seven hills/mountains upon which the woman who rides the beast, sits on.

If these succession of kings are representing Roman emperors, then we would could easily find out who king six was, as he was the one ruling when John was receiving that information from the angel. Emperor/king number seven would then be the one who followed king number six. Personally, I'm not concerned about the seventh king, but about the eighth king, who is still to come, that antichrist.

R 20:8-9,

It is not the camp of the saints that march against Jerusalem.

It is Magog that surrounds Jerusalem and the camp of the saints.

Ahwatukee · Aug 17, 2016

abcdef said:

With all due respect John, you need to pay attention to what I post. The scripture says, "they surround the camp of God's people" not "the camp of the saints." I agree and have always proclaimed that it is Gog and Magog that surround the city that God loves, Israel. According to scripture, this takes place at the end of the thousand years.

Ahwatukee · Aug 17, 2016

abcdef said:

First of all John, I don't know if that seventh head is Caesar. What I do know is that, the six king was ruling at the time that John was receiving that information from the angel. The seventh king would be the one who followed him. The eighth king is the beast who comes up from the Abyss:

"The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction." (Rev.17:8,11)

"And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming." (2 Thes.2:8)

"Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire." (Dan.7:11)

"And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him"
(Dan.9:27)

"But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. (Rev.19:20)

All of the scriptures above are speaking about one and the same person, the antichrist/beast who will be that eighth king.

Ahwatukee · Aug 17, 2016

PennEd said:

Sorry PennEd, but in many cases there are a lot of scriptures that support the Biblical issue being discussed. Also, the information that I am posting is not coming from a link, but from personal studies, which is why I provide the scriptures to back up what I am expounding on. Information from Videos, youtube and the internet, are just other peoples beliefs, that may have come from false teachings that they adopted.

I say, stick primarily with the word of God. For then you are getting the truth right from its source.

William86 · Aug 17, 2016

I'd just like to thank all of you for this very detailed and for the most part very respectful thread, it's been a joy to read and has given me a lot to think about. It is people like you that make this site worth coming back to.

abcdef · Aug 17, 2016

Ahwatukee said:

Brother Ahwatukee,

Please take your best guess as to who the 7th head is.

One of the Caesars?

The Caesar after the one of John's time?

Who is the 7th head?

abcdef · Aug 17, 2016

popeye said:

Brother Popeye,

Matt ch 24, about the trib., comes before the parable of the ten virgins in Matt ch 25, where the coming of Jesus is shown..

This would put the trib before the marriage.
---------

Ahwatukee · Aug 17, 2016

abcdef said:

John, does it matter who the 7th head is? It could be one of the following if that succession of kings are Roman kings:

The other has not yet come, but when he does he must remain for a little while.

Galba (Servius Galba Imperator Caesar Augustus)

born near Tarracina on December 24 3 B.C.
died at Rome on January 15 69 A.D. at age 72 from assassination during a rebellion among his rivals
reigned 1 year, from 68 to 69 A.D.

7. Otho (Imperator Marcus Otho Caesar Augustus)

born at Ferentium on April 28 32 A.D.
died at Brixellum on April 16 69 A.D. at age 37 from suicide
reigned less than a year, during 69 A.D.

popeye · Aug 17, 2016

abcdef said:

The setting before the groom comes to gather the bride is a peaceful setting.

Same with Noah,and Lot.

So there are 3 in a row.

Not to mention that after the 5 wise leave,the 5 foolish are assigned weeping and gnashing of teeth,or pain and suffering.

abcdef · Aug 17, 2016

popeye said:

Brother Popeye,

The setting before the flood in the days of Noah is described as;

Gen 6:11, "The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence."

Gen 6:13, "And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth."

violence, not a peaceful setting
----------

Lot

Gen 18:20 "And the Lord said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;

v 21, "I will go down now, and see......"
----
Gen 19:4, "But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:

v 5, "And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came unto thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them."

violence, not a peaceful setting
---

Matt ch 24, shows a great deal of violence, it is just before the story of the ten virgins.

So if Matt ch 24 is about the trib.,

And there is a time of peace before the "call",

What time of peace would that be?
-----

abcdef · Aug 17, 2016

Ahwatukee said:

Brother Ahwatukee,

Great answer !!

Now, please continue using the same pattern of deduction, to apply to the 8th head.

Wouldn't it be the next Caesar, who is in the line of succession?

abcdef · Aug 17, 2016

popeye said:

Brother Popeye,

The 5 wise, the five foolish.

The sheep and the goats of Matt 25:32-33.
----
The weeping and gnashing of teeth, Matt 25:30,

Notice that the unprofitable servant is cast into "outer darkness," this refers to the eternal punishment.

Jude 6, "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgement of the great day."

abcdef · Aug 17, 2016

Ahwatukee said:

Yes, I see several opinions on this term,"camp of the saints".

Call it what ever you want.

DP · Aug 17, 2016

Looking at this again, my rebuttal in more detail...

abcdef said:

Per Rev.17:11, it does reveal that Satan is behind the operation of the 7 kings, and that he himself is the eighth king.

Rev 17:11
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
KJV

It does not say Satan is embodied within the 7 heads nor 10 kings, though he still has power over them. The 7 heads are mountains, areas of power on earth, geographically. The 10 kings are ten literal kings that come to power under Satan in the last hour of this world, i.e., the tribulation time.

Rev 17:12-14
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

That "one hour" represents the great tribulation time at the very end of this world. It is the eleventh hour of the laborers in the field of Matt.20. It is the "short time" those on earth are warned about that Satan has once he and his angels are booted out of Heaven down to this earth after the war with Michael per Rev.12:7 forward. It is the "hour of temptation" our Lord Jesus warned His elect about in Rev.3.

Another reason we know that "one hour" is about the great tribulation time at the end is because of this verse...

14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for He is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with Him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
KJV

These 10 kings, actually 11 kings when you count Satan himself as the 11th little horn king pattern of the Book of Daniel, which is where... these symbols originated, are to make war with our Lord Jesus ("the Lamb") at the end, for that is when our Lord Jesus' 2nd coming is to defeat that Wicked one and destroy him with the brightness of His mouth (2 Thess.2). That is the culminating event written of in our Lord's Book of Revelation for this present world.

The "dragon" of Revelation is NEVER portrayed as people, waters, or a city.

It is the "great whore" of Rev.17:1 that sits upon "many waters". And those waters Jesus firstly... showed back in the Rev.13 Chapter in the first verse:

Rev 13:1
13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
KJV

That first beast mentioned there is about a 'kingdom beast'. There's TWO different 'beasts' taught in Rev.13. So one must pay close attention to that difference so they'll know which one is being spoken about.

That first beast, a kingdom, rises up out of the sea of waters, which means it rises up over the peoples on the earth. This is why our Lord Jesus told us in Rev.17:15 that those waters represent "peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues."

The "great whore" of Rev.17:1 represents the controlling city that sits upon those waters; it is not the dragon, nor is it the first beast kingdom itself. It is a city, the "great city" of Rev.17:18 symbolic of a "woman". So it's really important to understand these symbols in their different aspects first, and then we can begin to make the correct comparisons between them to know exactly what our Lord Jesus is revealing.

That idea of pointing to Rome is irrelevant, because Rev.11:8 reveals the "great city", the Babylon harlot, the "great whore" of Rev.17, is actually Jerusalem in the last days fallen into the hands of the coming Antichrist, who according to Paul in 2 Thess.2:3-4 is to sit in a temple in Jerusalem proclaiming himself as God; and this understanding of a temple in Jerusalem to do that for the end of this world, the early 1st/2nd century A.D. Church fathers also had. It is revealing that Jerusalem will be the epicenter of world control over the symbolic "waters" of Rev.17:15.

No, here's the actual order and application of those symbols there in Rev.17...

Rev 17:7-18
7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

The last verse of this 17th Chapter says this "woman" is the "great city" which reigns over the kings of the earth. The first beast of Rev.13:1 is the kingdom made of ten horns, seven heads, and ten crowns, which is the "beast" here that carries her. Got to stay focused.

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

This "beast" here is a different one. It is not... the kingdom beast mentioned above. This beast is the "another beast" of Rev.13:11 forward. It is an entity, a person, the "dragon", Satan even. That's who is the king that is the angel of the bottomless pit (Rev.9).

Satan reigned in the time of old before he sinned in coveting God's Throne. That was before this world. That is when he "was"... so to speak, like in power from the first when God originally created him perfect in his ways (Ezekiel 28; Ezek.31).

Then Satan became... "is not" after that, meaning God judged him and sentenced him to perish in the lake of fire; that is who the lake of fire was first prepared for before this world (Matt.25:41; Isaiah 30:33). That's why the idea of perdition is assigned especially to Satan himself, for only he and his angels that rebelled with him have already been judged and sentenced to perish. No flesh man has been judged yet, which is a very, very important distinction.

Satan is coming to earth to play Christ, which is the same original sin he did when first rebelled against God in the time of old. That is the "and yet is" part. When he comes to sit in another temple in Jerusalem and exalt himself as God, and over all that is called God, or that is worshiped, that is when that "and yet is" phrase will apply.

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

Small change of subject here. The woman = city (Jerusalem); the woman sits upon the first beast that has ten horns, seven heads, and ten crowns. The seven heads are "mountains" which represent regions of power upon the earth. It's not about seven hills. It's about seven regions covering the whole earth, i.e., over the peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues.

This is understood by first understanding that the woman represents the controlling city upon the kingdom beast, which the kingdom beast comes up out of the waters (sea) and is over the waters of peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues, meaning the whole earth. Rev.13:7 happens to tell us the 'dragon' is given power over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

But now it's back to the 2nd beast, the "another beast" of Rev.13:11, the idea of a 'beast king' like those of the Book of Daniel.

There are 7 beast kings. Five are past history, and in Apostle John one was then being the 6th beast king. The other yet to come, being the 7th, had not yet come in his day. And that 7th one does come, he must reign only a short time ("short space").

Who is it we were told back in Rev.12 that is booted down to earth and knows he has but a "short time"? It's the dragon, which is another title for Satan. So it's very simple, the 7th beast king is... Satan himself.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

There's that same idea of verse 8 about the beast that 'was', and 'is not', and 'yet is', ascends from the bottomless pit, and goes into perdition. That's Satan, the dragon. Here in verse 11 it says that beast, which we know is about the 'beast king' idea, that he was, is not, and even he is the 8th beast king, and of the previous seven, and goes into perdition. We know that's Satan himself, because going into perdition is a dead giveaway, as only Satan and his have already been judged to perdition in the lake of fire.

But if the 7th beast king was yet to come in John's day, and would only continue a short time (great trib time marker), that covers all this present world to the time of Christ's 2nd coming and start of His 1,000 year reign. Satan as the 8th beast king is about after Jesus' 1,000 years reign. Satan will be loosed one final time at the end of the 1,000 years, to go tempt the nations one final time, and then he will perish in the lake of fire (Rev.20).

12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

The ten kings are the ten horns of the beast kingdom system mentioned first in Rev.13:1-2. Daniel 7 sets the pattern for them also. Satan represents the "little horn" of the Book of Daniel that comes up to power among these ten kings, and he subdues 3 of the kings. Thusly, these 10 kings don't show up until the final days of this world, for the tribulation time when the Antichrist (Satan in person) comes to this earth per Rev.12:7 forward.

THE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE DOES NOT FIT LAST DAYS PROPHECY ABOUT NOAH

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