Was Paul "Mentally Ill"?

[Enow]

Mark 3

an abstract of the worlds view of someone who is mentally ill:

Positive Symptoms: The Psychotic Dimension

Religious delusions involve patients' belief that they have a special relationship with God normally reserved for bible or mythic figures, or with the spiritual world. Patients may state that they are the incarnation of the archangel Michael, for instance. They may complain of demon possession, of being able to speak to God directly and hear replies, or to be in communication with a spirit from another dimension. Patients may believe that they are God, or God's chosen messenger.

That would be taking my OP as if applying that all mentally ill patients are believers in Jesus Christ which some are not.

There are a wide range of afflictions for what society has deemed as mentally ill.

The question about Paul being "mentally ill" was in parenthesis "___" to refer to how society would lable Paul as such, but they would be wrong.

There is a spiritual warfare of which Paul would testify towards and thus fiery trials will come as we lean on Christ Jesus to get us through it.

Jesus spoke of tribulations that believers will go through.. even if it involves something continuous like a terminal illness that leads to death.

So that does not exempt Paul from being afflicted in a supernatural sense of hearing voices that accuses him as that would be befitting a messenger of Satan that buffets.

And buffetting Paul with accusations does not necessarily mean possession, but oppression.

Does not Satan whispers temptations in our ears? That does not mean he is in us.

So Paul being buffetted by a messenger of Satan and him asking God to remove this thorn in the flesh is just Paul's way of saying it was a personal affliction: not that he was possessed.

As for those that are "mentally ill" as per your quoted reference, Paul does not fall in that category of delusions of thinking himself God or highly special by having this thorn in the flesh when he acknowledges it as a humiliating affliction that would keep others from exlating him higher than they ought to think.

1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

Those mentally ill patients are working their delusions for others to exalt them higher than they ought to think: the opposite of what Paul says his thorn in the flesh was for.

 

[Enow]

Originally Posted by Enow

#1 Keep in mind that Paul had to ask for this thorn to be removed and it was not taken from him so in spite of this unremoved thorn, Christ will help him through it.

#2 I believe Paul went on to other afflictions to share that truth that just as Christ helps him through those trials of life, Christ will help him bear this thorn in the flesh.

As for your reference in Acts: just as Paul can be stoned to death and was presumed dead and Christ had raised him up to be unaffected by it, so can Christ enable Paul to walk this valley of death fearing no evil... not even with having this ever present thorn in the flesh. The shadow of the valley of death will always be over us in this life, but Christ will help us walk us through it as He would with anyone suffering such a thorn in the flesh in the service of Him to keep the foot of pride away and from others idolizing him for what God was doing through Christ in him.

I would say that would be presuming too much to say Paul was "unaffected" by it

Agreed. I would not presume to say that he walked out of there like a superman either, but I worded that wrong when regarding what the stoning was meant to do and that was to bring about death. It was being unaffected by the stoning in that way that I had meant to say, but yet well enough that he was able to walk away too.

I'm sure he was hurt by it.

Thanks for the correction. I did need to clarify.

 

[Enow]

(Holman Bible Dictionary) INFIRMITY Disease, suffering, or sorrow. The KJV often used infirmity where modern translations have another term (e.g., weakness, diseases, sickness, menstruation, grief). Matthew saw in Jesus healings the fulfillment of the servant of the Lord who took our diseases (Matt. 8:17; Isa. 53:4). Romans 15:1 calls upon the strong (in conscience) to bear with the weaknesses (KJV infirmity) of those without strength.

Galatians 6:17 17 From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.

It was something bigger than that....... WAY bigger than that.

Are you referring to a phenomenon called the stigmata?

I admit that verse would give me pause for consideration, but let's examine that infirmity to see if that was really Paul's thorn in the flesh mentioned in 2 Corinthians 12:7.

There has been reports of stigmata but if we examine the reactions to such a person having that, they would flock to that person.

So I fail to see how a stigmata would be Paul's thorn in the flesh that would keep people thinking of him higher than they ought to think.

As for the meaning of Galatians 6:17, I would have to lean on Jesus for discernment and wisdom in understanding of "bearing the marks of the Lord Jesus Christ", because why give Paul a stigmata that would exalt him in the eyes of the people after giving him a thorn in the flesh to prevent that from happening because of the abundance of revelations that Paul was having from the Lord for the edification of the churches?

I am discerning to think Paul was not referring to a stigmata then.

 

[Enow]

I think we ought to consider what's in the scriptures about him before speculating...... just sayin'.....

Granted, but "educated christian scholars & leaders" have been attributing Paul's failing eyesight to be that thorn in the flesh by pure speculation alone, and treating that speculation as a fact before I came along with this consideration to bring before that throne of grace for discernment from the Lord.

 

[Stephen63]

Are you referring to a phenomenon called the stigmata?

I admit that verse would give me pause for consideration, but let's examine that infirmity to see if that was really Paul's thorn in the flesh mentioned in 2 Corinthians 12:7.

There has been reports of stigmata but if we examine the reactions to such a person having that, they would flock to that person.

So I fail to see how a stigmata would be Paul's thorn in the flesh that would keep people thinking of him higher than they ought to think.

As for the meaning of Galatians 6:17, I would have to lean on Jesus for discernment and wisdom in understanding of "bearing the marks of the Lord Jesus Christ", because why give Paul a stigmata that would exalt him in the eyes of the people after giving him a thorn in the flesh to prevent that from happening because of the abundance of revelations that Paul was having from the Lord for the edification of the churches?

I am discerning to think Paul was not referring to a stigmata then.

No. I'm referring to all the personal persecution he went through.

Acts 9:13-16 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: 14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name. 15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: 16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

It was the tremendous suffering he endured on his missionary journeys. Remember this one?

Matthew 26:36-39 36 Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder. 37 And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy. 38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me. 39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

 

[Enow]

No. I'm referring to all the personal persecution he went through.

Acts 9:13-16 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: 14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name. 15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: 16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

It was the tremendous suffering he endured on his missionary journeys. Remember this one?

Matthew 26:36-39 36 Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder. 37 And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy. 38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me. 39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Okay. That makes more sense for your reference regarding the marks of the body of Jesus Christ. I agree with that.

Although I am certain that a messenger of Satan that buffets Paul as to be identified as his thorn in the flesh would be something that is not normally shared by other believers at that time in living that christian life so as not to think highly of Pau than they ought to think.

 

[Therapon]

But that is the problem. By your reference, Paul did not identify the thorn in the flesh as failing eyesight. and since failing eyesight hardly buffets him and it fails to meet as a messenger of Satan, then I am liable to believe he was hearing voices that accuses him continuously.

Over the years, I have worked with well over 100 demonized people, most were Christians. Some eventually gained their freedom in Jesus, but not all. As a result, I have a working familiarity with people "hearing voices." In my experience, when a person hears voices one of two conditions existed: 1) the person was actually demonized or 2) the person was a multiple, i.e., he/she has multiple personality disorder, MPD/DID.

I don't believe either condition was true of Paul, therefore I look to the only remaining possibility: demonic oppression (that God permitted) caused some kind of physical problem in Paul's flesh. Can't prove it, of course, but that appears to me to be the most likely.

 

[Enow]

Over the years, I have worked with well over 100 demonized people, most were Christians. Some eventually gained their freedom in Jesus, but not all. As a result, I have a working familiarity with people "hearing voices." In my experience, when a person hears voices one of two conditions existed: 1) the person was actually demonized or 2) the person was a multiple, i.e., he/she has multiple personality disorder, MPD/DID.

I don't believe either condition was true of Paul, therefore I look to the only remaining possibility: demonic oppression (that God permitted) caused some kind of physical problem in Paul's flesh. Can't prove it, of course, but that appears to me to be the most likely.

I agree, even though hearing voices would seem to be a physical affliction since he was hearing it, but again, as far as proving it, I cannot. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Laodicea]

Thank you for your contribution, however in respect to that consideration, how can poor eyesight be considered as a messenger of Satan that buffets Paul? I fail to see that as a connection to the references that you have provided here.

Don't get me wrong. I do acknowledge that poor eyesight was one of the infirmities that Paul was suffering from, but not the only one and hardky befitting the description of a messenger of Satan that buffets him that Paul would pray that it would be removed, but was not so that other believers would not think highly of him than they ought to think because of the abundance of revelations that Paul was having.

Today, no one would think less of a famous preacher for having poor eyesight, but they would not exalt him so highly if he was suffering from hearing voices that accuses him daily.

Just a thought for consideration and discernment with His help on how we should not think less of someone if God is using him to share the word of edification or reproof just because society lables him as "mentally ill" when in actuality, he may just be buffeted by a messenger of Satan to keep others from exalting him too highly that they forget Who is really ministering to them.

1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

To say that Paul was mentally ill or harassed by demons is just speculation with no Biblical proof, what we want are facts and certainty.
Galatians 4:13-15 KJV
(13) Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.
(14) And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.
(15) Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.

These texts are clear that Paul's infirmity was his eyesight. The fact that they would have given Paul there own eyes shows that it was causing him problems and possibly even embarrassment.

 

[crossnote]

Religious delusions involve patients' belief that they have a special relationship with God normally reserved for bible or mythic figures, or with the spiritual world. Patients may state that they are the incarnation of the archangel Michael, for instance. They may complain of demon possession, of being able to speak to God directly and hear replies, or to be in communication with a spirit from another dimension. Patients may believe that they are God, or God's chosen messenger.(end of quote).

Seems like the Psychologists have been playing the role of God themselves with this definition.

 

[Therapon]

I agree, even though hearing voices would seem to be a physical affliction since he was hearing it, but again, as far as proving it, I cannot. Thanks for sharing.

As additional info, these are the maladies I have seen in demonized people that disappeared after they were freed in Jesus of their evil spirits: 1) reduced tactile sense 2) loss of peripheral vision 3) asthma and 4) arthritis, 5) skin ailments. But that should come as no surprise. Even secular physicians today recognize that prayer and the spiritual condition of a patient has a tremendous effect on their health and rate of recovery, regardless of the nature of the trauma.

 

[Therapon]

Religious delusions involve patients' belief that they have a special relationship with God normally reserved for bible or mythic figures, or with the spiritual world. Patients may state that they are the incarnation of the archangel Michael, for instance. They may complain of demon possession, of being able to speak to God directly and hear replies, or to be in communication with a spirit from another dimension. Patients may believe that they are God, or God's chosen messenger.(end of quote).

Seems like the Psychologists have been playing the role of God themselves with this definition.

Now here is a radical thought. Unless there is a physical deformity, serious head trauma or major chemical imbalance, I am now of the opinion that all so-called psychological ills are actually spiritual in nature. Both Jung and Freud admitted in their letters that they got their psychotherapeutic ideas from the occult. In a survey done a few years ago, the surveyors found that 50% of mental patients who got psychiatric care got better. They also found that 50% of mental patients who didn't get psychiatric care also got better, LOL.

What do mental health professionals do but try to help people deal with their guilt without bringing them to Jesus, the only true guilt-solver God has provided, and since that's not a part of a mental health professional’s training, they medicate. I believe many of the "sick" reported in the Gospels were actually mental patients, but I can't imagine the Lord saying something like, "Oh, I see you are clinically depressed. Here let me give you a Zoloft, Lithium or a chlorpromazine," LOL

I’m 85 now and don’t counsel much anymore, but back when I was, after a so-called clinically depressed person wept on my shoulder a for bit, I’d ask, "OK, what sin are you in that you are unwilling to give up?" Amazing! After their sins were given to the Lord, the so called clinical depression usually disappeared.

BTW, if I'm bugging anyone with my experiences, just say so and I'll leave the discussion.

 

[know1]

Now here is a radical thought. Unless there is a physical deformity, serious head trauma or major chemical imbalance, I am now of the opinion that all so-called psychological ills are actually spiritual in nature. Both Jung and Freud admitted in their letters that they got their psychotherapeutic ideas from the occult. In a survey done a few years ago, the surveyors found that 50% of mental patients who got psychiatric care got better. They also found that 50% of mental patients who didn't get psychiatric care also got better, LOL.

What do mental health professionals do but try to help people deal with their guilt without bringing them to Jesus, the only true guilt-solver God has provided, and since that's not a part of a mental health professional’s training, they medicate. I believe many of the "sick" reported in the Gospels were actually mental patients, but I can't imagine the Lord saying something like, "Oh, I see you are clinically depressed. Here let me give you a Zoloft, Lithium or a chlorpromazine," LOL

I’m 85 now and don’t counsel much anymore, but back when I was, after a so-called clinically depressed person wept on my shoulder a for bit, I’d ask, "OK, what sin are you in that you are unwilling to give up?" Amazing! After their sins were given to the Lord, the so called clinical depression usually disappeared.

BTW, if I'm bugging anyone with my experiences, just say so and I'll leave the discussion.

You are fine sir. I also am of the persuasion that mental illness is spiritual. Thank you for bringing that out.
The so called mental illnesses are actually problems in the heart. Aside from God telling me, He also showed me that one of the purposes of repentance was for forgiveness, another is for deliverance, and another is for healing.

Joh 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

This scripture is not say that if an apostle forgives a person then they are forgiven, only God can forgive sin. No, this is talking about those who hold on to sins/offenses and those who let them go. Basically, what this scripture is saying is, who soever forgives or lets go of the sins or offenses of others, will themselves be forgiven and set free from that sin or offense, and who soever holds on to, keeps, refuse to forgive or let go of the sins or offenses of others , they themselves will keep or retain the sins or offenses of others and will not be forgiven of that sin or offense.

Mat_6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
Mat_6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Mat 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
Mat 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Jesus came to set men free, but if man refuses to forgive others, those tormentor stay, and they themselves are tormented. That would be the so called mentally ill.

 

[know1]

I agree, even though hearing voices would seem to be a physical affliction since he was hearing it, but again, as far as proving it, I cannot. Thanks for sharing.

What's the big deal with hearing voices? I have heard many voices many times. Some, I rebuke and some, I seek God on. Once, it was so loud I thought that someone in the physical world was yelling at me. Yet, I am as sane as anyone. My wife hears and sees much more than I. She too, is just as sane as I.

 

[Therapon]

I also am of the persuasion that mental illness is spiritual. Thank you for bringing that out.

The so called mental illnesses are actually problems in the heart. Aside from God telling me, He also showed me that one of the purposes of repentance was for forgiveness, another is for deliverance, and another is for healing.
Jesus came to set men free, but if man refuses to forgive others, those tormentor stay, and they themselves are tormented. That would be the so called mentally ill.

I believe we are on the same page, scripturally speaking. <smile>

 

[Disdame45]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around what is being discussed here. A few things came to mind, however, that might be or might not be relevant. Satan, by definition, means 'accuser of the Brethren'. Ok, so if Satan is an accuser of those who are in Christ, I guess I could see where his messengers would come and accuse those who are in Christ. I feel this happens to me quite a lot, when I struggle with issues in my mind of past sins (things I have given up, but still haunt me). Sometimes my husband tells me that I am my own worst enemy. I have thoughts of 'not being good enough' etc. I have enough discernment to know that these thoughts are from the accuser of the Brethren, but they are there, nonetheless. In tears, I have prayed that those feelings and thoughts would leave, but perhaps they are there as a reminder to never lean on our own understandings or the understandings of others, but in all things acknowledge Him, who gives us life. I think it is also to show that we are in constant spiritual warfare.

The other thing that came to mind, regarding Paul's eyesight is this. When Satan beguiled Eve in the garden, he told her that her eyes would be opened and she would become like God if she partook of that forbidden fruit. The opposite happened. Mankind was blinded from that day forward to the truth. We have had 'scales' over our eyes. Interestingly enough, when Saul/Paul was converted on the road to Damascus, (Acts 9) he was 'blinded by the Light'. After three days, Ananias laid hands on him so that he would receive his sight AND be filled with the Holy Spirit. Immediately, something like 'scales' fell from his eyes. We are blinded by Satan's cunning lies and deceptions. Only the power of the Holy Spirit can remove those scales from our eyes. I believe Paul received not only his physical sight back that day, but also a spiritual sight.

I don't know if I would call Paul mentally ill or could even assume that he heard voices in his head. His letters to the various churches would indicate that he had a sound mind. Perhaps (and this is mere speculation) the messages that were thorns in his 'flesh' were thoughts or ideas that he could be exalted or should be put on some pedestal by others. That could have, in and of itself, been a very strong temptation, considering his conversion and the revelations he had. But God's grace was sufficient for him, even to the point that he suffered trials, persecutions, beatings, chains and eventually death. The tendency for Paul to boast is evident in his letters, so I think this was something he had to always deal with.

 

[know1]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around what is being discussed here. A few things came to mind, however, that might be or might not be relevant. Satan, by definition, means 'accuser of the Brethren'. Ok, so if Satan is an accuser of those who are in Christ, I guess I could see where his messengers would come and accuse those who are in Christ. I feel this happens to me quite a lot, when I struggle with issues in my mind of past sins (things I have given up, but still haunt me). Sometimes my husband tells me that I am my own worst enemy. I have thoughts of 'not being good enough' etc. I have enough discernment to know that these thoughts are from the accuser of the Brethren, but they are there, nonetheless. In tears, I have prayed that those feelings and thoughts would leave, but perhaps they are there as a reminder to never lean on our own understandings or the understandings of others, but in all things acknowledge Him, who gives us life. I think it is also to show that we are in constant spiritual warfare.

I was in your position for many year with self condemnation. Even had thoughts of suicide at on point in my life. But, in many cases, what your husband said to you is the truth. We become our own worst enemy. Something most people don't know is that your heart will condemn you because of what you told it. It condemns and/or excuses both you and others. It is how we are made.

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.

I was delivered from this when I understood one of the purposes of the blood of Jesus. You can be set free also if you are interest in knowing how.
Don't have the time to write it out right now.

 

[Enow]

To say that Paul was mentally ill or harassed by demons is just speculation with no Biblical proof, what we want are facts and certainty.
Galatians 4:13-15 KJV
(13) Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.
(14) And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.
(15) Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.

These texts are clear that Paul's infirmity was his eyesight. The fact that they would have given Paul there own eyes shows that it was causing him problems and possibly even embarrassment.

#1) When I referred to the question >>Was Paul "Mentally Ill"?<< I was not trying to convey that Paul was mentally ill, but hearing voices that accuses him continuously.

I would say that society and believers today would call a person hearing voices as accusing him as mentally ill, but they woud be wrong.

#2) I disagree with you because I fail to see how failing eyesight would keep any believer from thinking highly of him than he ought to think. We don't towards anyone today, but would we give pause if that person we hold in high esteem hears voices in accusing him continuously? Would we fear what sciety would think of us if we did not hold it against him but yet not exalt him higher than we ought to think because it is God ministering through him and us as well?

So in spite of your sound rebuttal about speculation, just know that is how I see those that attributed Paul's thorn in the flesh as failing eyesight when obviously, there are other "infirmities" ( plural ) and not just his failing eyesight that can be referenced in scripture by.

But I agree with you that it is a speculation to attribute the messenger of Satan as buffetting Paul as hearing voices that accuses him, but I do not see anything else matching that description befitting an infirmity among other referenced infirmities that he was suffering from other than that.

And I still respect Paul as my fellow brother in Christ, but I do not exalt Paul because he had said plainly that it is God ministering through him for which he should not get any credit for.

1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase....21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's; 22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your's; 23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

One thing that should be considered as an important side note is not to deem a believer that is labled "mentally ill" as less than us which is what society tend to influence people to do, because whatever we do or not do to the least of the brethren, we are doing it to Jesus. Even I need the Lord's help to do right by Him.

 

[Enow]

Religious delusions involve patients' belief that they have a special relationship with God normally reserved for bible or mythic figures, or with the spiritual world. Patients may state that they are the incarnation of the archangel Michael, for instance. They may complain of demon possession, of being able to speak to God directly and hear replies, or to be in communication with a spirit from another dimension. Patients may believe that they are God, or God's chosen messenger.(end of quote).

Seems like the Psychologists have been playing the role of God themselves with this definition.

I see that now, especially when they could use that to persecute the saints during the great tribulation: not that they would ever claim to be God, but those that hear may not hear the apostrophe "s" when saying that they are God's or even knowing that is what they had meant, play the ignorance part on purpose to persecute & to defame.

1 Corinthians 3:23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

 

[Enow]

What's the big deal with hearing voices? I have heard many voices many times. Some, I rebuke and some, I seek God on. Once, it was so loud I thought that someone in the physical world was yelling at me. Yet, I am as sane as anyone. My wife hears and sees much more than I. She too, is just as sane as I.

I believe that is what I was trying to convey about Paul or any believer that goes through that, but my point was that the description of the messenger of Satan that buffets Paul as a thorn in the flesh seems to be befitting hearing voices that accuses him rather than what educated scholars of the day are saying as being his poor eyesight, even though it is listed as one of his infirmities.

And it is true that we are assaulted by dark forces as well as having divine intervention at times when we need His help. I am not a stranger to neither one, however, discerning what that messenger of Satan as a thorn in the flesh was that Paul would pray for it to be removed is what I am led to discern that Paul was hearing voices that accuses him.

This is to give hope to those that are afflicted not to believe society that they are mentally ill, but we are to put on the whole armour of God, and trust Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd, to help us through it as we walk this valley of the shaodow of death together since He is in us and is thus with us always.

Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

So it pretty much declares that Paul wasn't just whistling dixie or being overly dramatic about that whole thing either, but we have this hope in Christ that He will overcome it.

John 16:33These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.