We are not under the law
- Thread starter RickyZ
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The 10 commandments were only given to the Jews to keep, no one else, Deut 5
Christ took all the OT out of the way making in inactive, ineffective, Col 2:14; Eph 2:15 replacing it with His NT, Heb 10:9
If one could be made righteous by keeping the 10 commandments, then Christ died in vain, Gal 2:21
If one was to keep the 10 commandments, he would have an obligation to keep ALL the OT law, Gal 5:3; James 2:10
would it also ask the readers of the bible, are you saved by law or believing in jesus
.ie jewish life was this law and the requirements god ask them to do would only be valid with a the temple of stone in place.
again i asks in this time frame was jesus sent to a jewish nation, or a gentile nation.
how can a gentile church follow the full jewish law given via moses. ie 70ad. this would include 10 commands.
1)if the law is a school teacher, what kind of school teach is it, ie history teacher, or actions teacher. etc
2)i am asking were did the gentile get the 10 commands or when were they given them via scripture/ ie acts 15
when a new covenant was given after everything being done in the gospels. so again would jesus life, death etc also be a history teacher into how the new covenant was put in place.
how can a gentile church follow the full jewish law given via moses. ie 70ad. how can a gentile follow 10 commands
because jesus was the only one to do this fully.
21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.Galatians 2
.ie jewish life was this law and the requirements god ask them to do would only be valid with a the temple of stone in place.
again i asks in this time frame was jesus sent to a jewish nation, or a gentile nation.
how can a gentile church follow the full jewish law given via moses. ie 70ad. this would include 10 commands.
1)if the law is a school teacher, what kind of school teach is it, ie history teacher, or actions teacher. etc
2)i am asking were did the gentile get the 10 commands or when were they given them via scripture/ ie acts 15
when a new covenant was given after everything being done in the gospels. so again would jesus life, death etc also be a history teacher into how the new covenant was put in place.
how can a gentile church follow the full jewish law given via moses. ie 70ad. how can a gentile follow 10 commands
because jesus was the only one to do this fully.
21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.Galatians 2
B
For anyone (man or woman) to put themself (or themselves) under the law of the 10 commandments, what does it do for them and what does it do for God?
1. Does it make them righteous and does it glorify God for them to be under the law?
2. Does it honor God when they keep all the law? (Is God also honored when they fail any part of the law?)
3. Does it make them feel good about themselves because they are doing what God commanded?
4. Is it something God desires, that they should always try their best to be under the law at all times?
5. Do they become clean by keeping and being under the 10 commandments of the law?
6. Is there temporal and eternal rewards in keeping in step with the law of the 10 commandments?
7. Are they delivered from sin and the effects of sin when they keep themselves under the law?
8. If they are able to keep themselves under the law is their a need for grace in their life?
9. Is part of the activity of the Holy Spirit within them striving to help them keep the law and to remain under it?
10. Is this the righteous and holy way they get grace from God to help sustain them under the law?
11. Does the law of the 10 commandments represent the will of God to them and to violate any of the commandments would mean that they would be operating outside the will of God for their life?
*If God only took away the curse and condemnation of the law but left the law for us to be under and to keep, what did Jesus mean on the cross when He said in (John 19:30), 'It is finished'. What is finished? Did he mean that man was no longer under the condemnation and curse of the law but the law was still the premise for man to be under? If so, how was he able to separate these two things from the law without destroying the law? Without the law their is no transgression, therefore, no curse and no condemnation. The condemnation and curse of the law was just as much a part of the law as the law itself.
To violate and transgress the law was either by commission or by leaving off what should be done by omission. To commit adultery was a transgression by commission, but to not keep the Sabbath was a transgression of omission and both were condemned under the law to death. There was no way that Moses, Aaron, the priests and the elders of the people could separate the law from the condemnation of the law and Christ did not come to do that either. An appeal for mercy could be requested but God made the judgment on that. When God told Moses to erect a pole with the brazen serpent, all those who looked upon it that were bitten were preserved and did not die.
The law came by Moses but grace and truth came by Christ to set us free from the law, its deeds, its curse and its condemnation. We can not be forgiven, cleansed or set free from the sin and transgression of the law, and the sin of Adam, without grace and the truth of the finished work of the cross. Christ must be lifted up so that righteousness comes by the finished work of the cross and not by the deeds of the law. God draws men unto himself not by the deeds of the law but through His Son and the finished work of the cross. So if we receive righteousness by faith through the work of the cross of Christ and not through the deeds of the law, then all righteousness from God is also revealed from faith to faith (for the just shall live by faith) and not by keeping the law of the 10 commandments.
We obtain all righteousness through Christ and not through keeping any part of the law. Any righteousness we have through the deeds of the law is a righteousness not of faith and considered to be filthy rags which is unacceptable in God's sight. We can only love God with all our hearts, soul, mind and strength through the love that was shed through the cross and in our hearts by the Holy Spirit and not through even keeping the first commandment.
1. Does it make them righteous and does it glorify God for them to be under the law?
2. Does it honor God when they keep all the law? (Is God also honored when they fail any part of the law?)
3. Does it make them feel good about themselves because they are doing what God commanded?
4. Is it something God desires, that they should always try their best to be under the law at all times?
5. Do they become clean by keeping and being under the 10 commandments of the law?
6. Is there temporal and eternal rewards in keeping in step with the law of the 10 commandments?
7. Are they delivered from sin and the effects of sin when they keep themselves under the law?
8. If they are able to keep themselves under the law is their a need for grace in their life?
9. Is part of the activity of the Holy Spirit within them striving to help them keep the law and to remain under it?
10. Is this the righteous and holy way they get grace from God to help sustain them under the law?
11. Does the law of the 10 commandments represent the will of God to them and to violate any of the commandments would mean that they would be operating outside the will of God for their life?
*If God only took away the curse and condemnation of the law but left the law for us to be under and to keep, what did Jesus mean on the cross when He said in (John 19:30), 'It is finished'. What is finished? Did he mean that man was no longer under the condemnation and curse of the law but the law was still the premise for man to be under? If so, how was he able to separate these two things from the law without destroying the law? Without the law their is no transgression, therefore, no curse and no condemnation. The condemnation and curse of the law was just as much a part of the law as the law itself.
To violate and transgress the law was either by commission or by leaving off what should be done by omission. To commit adultery was a transgression by commission, but to not keep the Sabbath was a transgression of omission and both were condemned under the law to death. There was no way that Moses, Aaron, the priests and the elders of the people could separate the law from the condemnation of the law and Christ did not come to do that either. An appeal for mercy could be requested but God made the judgment on that. When God told Moses to erect a pole with the brazen serpent, all those who looked upon it that were bitten were preserved and did not die.
The law came by Moses but grace and truth came by Christ to set us free from the law, its deeds, its curse and its condemnation. We can not be forgiven, cleansed or set free from the sin and transgression of the law, and the sin of Adam, without grace and the truth of the finished work of the cross. Christ must be lifted up so that righteousness comes by the finished work of the cross and not by the deeds of the law. God draws men unto himself not by the deeds of the law but through His Son and the finished work of the cross. So if we receive righteousness by faith through the work of the cross of Christ and not through the deeds of the law, then all righteousness from God is also revealed from faith to faith (for the just shall live by faith) and not by keeping the law of the 10 commandments.
We obtain all righteousness through Christ and not through keeping any part of the law. Any righteousness we have through the deeds of the law is a righteousness not of faith and considered to be filthy rags which is unacceptable in God's sight. We can only love God with all our hearts, soul, mind and strength through the love that was shed through the cross and in our hearts by the Holy Spirit and not through even keeping the first commandment.
K
That is not a new commandment, God commanded Israel to do so repeatedly. It may have been a new concept to those He was addressing who obviously were not practicing it. Nor did Christ or any of his Apostles ever even hint that that this commandment in any way shape or form nullify any of the Ten Commandments. To the contrary they said just the opposite.
were all his apostles jewish. so was paul.
.7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised8 (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles),Galatians 2
is this clearly telling you there is two different gospels or two different class of people, ie jews , gentiles, one under law(circumcised) one( uncircumcised)
.7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised8 (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles),Galatians 2
is this clearly telling you there is two different gospels or two different class of people, ie jews , gentiles, one under law(circumcised) one( uncircumcised)
you can train a child in the way he should live,
and if a child is trained in the way he should live while he is young,
he will not depart from it when he is older (shrug - have you met anyone who was trained as they should live when they were young, or any age?!),
so, if a child is trained right when he is young,
will he dishonor his father and ignore his father's word later when he is grown ?
and if a child is trained in the way he should live while he is young,
he will not depart from it when he is older (shrug - have you met anyone who was trained as they should live when they were young, or any age?!),
so, if a child is trained right when he is young,
will he dishonor his father and ignore his father's word later when he is grown ?
Gentiles have been saved and adopted as children of Israel since the days of Moses.
Deuteronomy 10:18New International Version (NIV)[SUP]18 [/SUP]He defends the cause of the fatherless and the widow, and loves the foreigner residing among you, giving them food and clothing.
Leviticus 19:33-34New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]33 [/SUP]“‘When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. [SUP]34 [/SUP]The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.
Jeremiah 12:16New International Version (NIV)[SUP]16 [/SUP]And if they learn well the ways of my people and swear by my name, saying, ‘As surely as the Lord lives’—even as they once taught my people to swear by Baal—then they will be established among my people.
Exodus 12:48-49New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]48 [/SUP]“A foreigner residing among you who wants to celebrate the Lord’s Passover must have all the males in his household circumcised; then he may take part like one born in the land. No uncircumcised male may eat it. [SUP]49 [/SUP]The same law applies both to the native-born and to the foreigner residing among you.”
Deuteronomy 10:18New International Version (NIV)[SUP]18 [/SUP]He defends the cause of the fatherless and the widow, and loves the foreigner residing among you, giving them food and clothing.
Leviticus 19:33-34New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]33 [/SUP]“‘When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. [SUP]34 [/SUP]The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.
Jeremiah 12:16New International Version (NIV)[SUP]16 [/SUP]And if they learn well the ways of my people and swear by my name, saying, ‘As surely as the Lord lives’—even as they once taught my people to swear by Baal—then they will be established among my people.
Exodus 12:48-49New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]48 [/SUP]“A foreigner residing among you who wants to celebrate the Lord’s Passover must have all the males in his household circumcised; then he may take part like one born in the land. No uncircumcised male may eat it. [SUP]49 [/SUP]The same law applies both to the native-born and to the foreigner residing among you.”
K
[h=3]The 10 Commandments in the Old and New Testaments[/h]The following chart identifies references to the 10 Commandments in both the Old and New Testaments.
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TH] [/TH]
[TH]Old Testament[/TH]
[TH]New Testament[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]First
Commandment[/TD]
[TD]Exodus 20:3;
Deuteronomy 5:7[/TD]
[TD]Matthew 4:10; Luke 4:8; Revelation 14:7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Second
Commandment[/TD]
[TD]Exodus 20:4-6;
Deuteronomy 5:8-10[/TD]
[TD]Acts 15:20; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-20; Ephesians 5:5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Third
Commandment[/TD]
[TD]Exodus 20:7;
Deuteronomy 5:11[/TD]
[TD]Matthew 5:33-37; 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Fourth
Commandment[/TD]
[TD]Exodus 20:8-11;
Deuteronomy 5:12-15[/TD]
[TD]Luke 4:16; 23:55-56; Acts 17:1-2; 18:4; Hebrews 4:9; 1 John 2:6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Fifth
Commandment[/TD]
[TD]Exodus 20:12;
Deuteronomy 5:16[/TD]
[TD]Matthew 15:4-9; 19:19; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Romans 1:29-30; Ephesians 6:1-3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Sixth
Commandment[/TD]
[TD]Exodus 20:13;
Deuteronomy 5: 17[/TD]
[TD]Matthew 5:21-22; 19:18; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Romans 1:29-30; 13:9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Seventh
Commandment[/TD]
[TD]Exodus 20:14;
Deuteronomy 5:18[/TD]
[TD]Matthew 5:27-28; 19:18; Mark 10:11-12, 19; Luke 16:18; 18:20; Romans 7:2-3; 13:9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Eighth
Commandment[/TD]
[TD]Exodus 20:15;
Deuteronomy 5:19[/TD]
[TD]Matthew 19:18; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Romans 13:9; Ephesians 4:28; 1 Peter 4:15; Revelation 9:21[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ninth
Commandment[/TD]
[TD]Exodus 20:16;
Deuteronomy 5:20[/TD]
[TD]Matthew 19:18; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Acts 5:3-4; Romans 13:9; Ephesians 4:25[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10th
Commandment[/TD]
[TD]Exodus 20:17;
Deuteronomy 5:21[/TD]
[TD]Luke 12:15; Romans 1:29; 7:7; 13:9; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21; Ephesians 5:3, 5[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TH] [/TH]
[TH]Old Testament[/TH]
[TH]New Testament[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]First
Commandment[/TD]
[TD]Exodus 20:3;
Deuteronomy 5:7[/TD]
[TD]Matthew 4:10; Luke 4:8; Revelation 14:7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Second
Commandment[/TD]
[TD]Exodus 20:4-6;
Deuteronomy 5:8-10[/TD]
[TD]Acts 15:20; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-20; Ephesians 5:5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Third
Commandment[/TD]
[TD]Exodus 20:7;
Deuteronomy 5:11[/TD]
[TD]Matthew 5:33-37; 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Fourth
Commandment[/TD]
[TD]Exodus 20:8-11;
Deuteronomy 5:12-15[/TD]
[TD]Luke 4:16; 23:55-56; Acts 17:1-2; 18:4; Hebrews 4:9; 1 John 2:6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Fifth
Commandment[/TD]
[TD]Exodus 20:12;
Deuteronomy 5:16[/TD]
[TD]Matthew 15:4-9; 19:19; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Romans 1:29-30; Ephesians 6:1-3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Sixth
Commandment[/TD]
[TD]Exodus 20:13;
Deuteronomy 5: 17[/TD]
[TD]Matthew 5:21-22; 19:18; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Romans 1:29-30; 13:9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Seventh
Commandment[/TD]
[TD]Exodus 20:14;
Deuteronomy 5:18[/TD]
[TD]Matthew 5:27-28; 19:18; Mark 10:11-12, 19; Luke 16:18; 18:20; Romans 7:2-3; 13:9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Eighth
Commandment[/TD]
[TD]Exodus 20:15;
Deuteronomy 5:19[/TD]
[TD]Matthew 19:18; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Romans 13:9; Ephesians 4:28; 1 Peter 4:15; Revelation 9:21[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ninth
Commandment[/TD]
[TD]Exodus 20:16;
Deuteronomy 5:20[/TD]
[TD]Matthew 19:18; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Acts 5:3-4; Romans 13:9; Ephesians 4:25[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10th
Commandment[/TD]
[TD]Exodus 20:17;
Deuteronomy 5:21[/TD]
[TD]Luke 12:15; Romans 1:29; 7:7; 13:9; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21; Ephesians 5:3, 5[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[SUP]Mark 12:30 "[/SUP]And you must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind, and all your strength. [SUP]31 [/SUP]The second is equally important: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ No other commandment is greater than these.”
If you love God and your neighbor don't you think you would keep all the 10 commandments? They all point to the loving character of God.
Jesus said "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Matthew 5:18
Heaven and earth have NOT passed, all is NOT fulfilled until Revelations 21 prophecy takes place with a NEW heaven and a NEW earth. Till the Lord rids the world of sin forever. Was Jesus contradicting himself? Of course not.
The 10 commandments show us how bad we are and how desperately in need of a Savior we are. Ceremonial laws are different. Ceremonial laws included instructions on animal sacrifice (Exodus 20:24), circumcision (Genesis 17:10), ceremonial feasts (Deuteronomy 16:10) and so on. Such laws pointed forward in time to Christ’s atonement for sin on the cross. They gave the Israelites hope of a future Savior, who would pay for their sins. But we no longer look to the future for Christ to pay for our sins. That is now a part of history. Therefore, we do not practice the Old Testament rituals that point forward to Christ’s first coming. Paul explains in Galatians 3:24-25, “Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.”
In this context, what does Paul mean by “the law?” Does he mean that all Old Testament laws have been set aside? Are we now free to murder, kidnap, lie, steal, and so on? Clearly not (Romans 6:15). Paul is using synecdoche: “the law” in this context is referring to the ceremonial law. This is clear because it is the ceremonial law which was a “tutor to lead us to Christ.” Does God’s moral law lead us to Christ? No, rather, it shows us that we are sinners. But it does not tell us how to be redeemed. Rather, it is the ceremonial laws which showed the need for blood atonement (Leviticus 17:11). It was these ceremonial laws that foreshadowed the coming of Christ--the Lamb that would take away the sins of the world (John 1:29). Now that the object of our faith has come (Christ), we are no longer under a tutor (the Old Testament ceremonial laws).
Ever have trouble understanding Paul's writings? Paul uses "the law" as a synecdoche many times. Like if I say "San Francisco won the World Series." Did the whole city win the World Series? No. Just the baseball team. But we still say San Francisco won the World Series.
If you love God and your neighbor don't you think you would keep all the 10 commandments? They all point to the loving character of God.
Jesus said "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Matthew 5:18
Heaven and earth have NOT passed, all is NOT fulfilled until Revelations 21 prophecy takes place with a NEW heaven and a NEW earth. Till the Lord rids the world of sin forever. Was Jesus contradicting himself? Of course not.
The 10 commandments show us how bad we are and how desperately in need of a Savior we are. Ceremonial laws are different. Ceremonial laws included instructions on animal sacrifice (Exodus 20:24), circumcision (Genesis 17:10), ceremonial feasts (Deuteronomy 16:10) and so on. Such laws pointed forward in time to Christ’s atonement for sin on the cross. They gave the Israelites hope of a future Savior, who would pay for their sins. But we no longer look to the future for Christ to pay for our sins. That is now a part of history. Therefore, we do not practice the Old Testament rituals that point forward to Christ’s first coming. Paul explains in Galatians 3:24-25, “Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.”
In this context, what does Paul mean by “the law?” Does he mean that all Old Testament laws have been set aside? Are we now free to murder, kidnap, lie, steal, and so on? Clearly not (Romans 6:15). Paul is using synecdoche: “the law” in this context is referring to the ceremonial law. This is clear because it is the ceremonial law which was a “tutor to lead us to Christ.” Does God’s moral law lead us to Christ? No, rather, it shows us that we are sinners. But it does not tell us how to be redeemed. Rather, it is the ceremonial laws which showed the need for blood atonement (Leviticus 17:11). It was these ceremonial laws that foreshadowed the coming of Christ--the Lamb that would take away the sins of the world (John 1:29). Now that the object of our faith has come (Christ), we are no longer under a tutor (the Old Testament ceremonial laws).
Ever have trouble understanding Paul's writings? Paul uses "the law" as a synecdoche many times. Like if I say "San Francisco won the World Series." Did the whole city win the World Series? No. Just the baseball team. But we still say San Francisco won the World Series.
You are Blessed, because you recognize the Truth when you see it, and the Truth is Jesus.
The problem is however just like there were antichrists in the days of Jesus, who thought they were Christs, tried to teach people they must keep the Law, Which Jesus nor any Apostle ever taught.
Jesus NEVER instructed us Christians to continue to obey the LAW.
The Apostles, not one of them, instructed us Christians to continue to keep the law.
Leave it to the last days generation to try to instruct us Christian to continue to keep the law, to continue to obey the 10 commandments, all they while thinking they are doing God service by doing so. They are no different then those who were trying to add burdens to a a believers walk. Are they not teaching things that Jesus and His Apostles NEVER taught? Yes they are, but they are deceived, they believe full heartedly in a lie, and they believe it so much that the MANY Scriptures, if they were to merely just believe them, That are presented to them to show them error in their thinking, they for some reason can't believe, can't see, or can't understand them.
Oh if Everyone would just believe the Words that Jesus told me, they could come to the light and understand. He told me.
If what you believe contradicts even one verse in Scriptures then what you believe is Wrong.
If you believe a particular something, and people are showing you verses that contradict that belief, and if that verse is contrary to what you THINK is the Truth, then realize that you are WRONG.
This generation will change the Scriptures to fit their own belief
instead of
Changing their belief to fit with what Scriptures teach.
There will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth when the Tribulation Period starts.
^i^ Responding to post# 3
The problem is however just like there were antichrists in the days of Jesus, who thought they were Christs, tried to teach people they must keep the Law, Which Jesus nor any Apostle ever taught.
Jesus NEVER instructed us Christians to continue to obey the LAW.
The Apostles, not one of them, instructed us Christians to continue to keep the law.
Leave it to the last days generation to try to instruct us Christian to continue to keep the law, to continue to obey the 10 commandments, all they while thinking they are doing God service by doing so. They are no different then those who were trying to add burdens to a a believers walk. Are they not teaching things that Jesus and His Apostles NEVER taught? Yes they are, but they are deceived, they believe full heartedly in a lie, and they believe it so much that the MANY Scriptures, if they were to merely just believe them, That are presented to them to show them error in their thinking, they for some reason can't believe, can't see, or can't understand them.
Oh if Everyone would just believe the Words that Jesus told me, they could come to the light and understand. He told me.
If what you believe contradicts even one verse in Scriptures then what you believe is Wrong.
If you believe a particular something, and people are showing you verses that contradict that belief, and if that verse is contrary to what you THINK is the Truth, then realize that you are WRONG.
This generation will change the Scriptures to fit their own belief
instead of
Changing their belief to fit with what Scriptures teach.
There will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth when the Tribulation Period starts.
^i^ Responding to post# 3
there's a difference in keeping the law, as all children of yahweh do better than that, obeying(or coming to that point) yahweh always in every thought, word, act, deed, imagination, dream and hope,
and trusting the law for salvation, which no one can be saved by.
only the blind don't see this, and yahshua hamashiach(jesus christ messiah) the savior says after one or two warnings, to just be done with them - they are the ones who are divisive and unable to learn the truth, even if someone is raised from the dead to tell them.
and trusting the law for salvation, which no one can be saved by.
only the blind don't see this, and yahshua hamashiach(jesus christ messiah) the savior says after one or two warnings, to just be done with them - they are the ones who are divisive and unable to learn the truth, even if someone is raised from the dead to tell them.
But looking at it that way kinda cuts out self achievement, especially as love is a fruit of the spirit. Some might prefer to view it from a different angle 
i am commanded to LOVE ONE ANOTHER, my self achievements is irrelevant, moot. All that i do, is because Jesus is in me. it is not i that LOVES but He that is in me, LOVES through me. i do LOVE, but it is because of Jesus that i do. It is nothing about what i have done, nothing about self achievements, it is ALL about Him, and what He does. i think if you are tying to look at it in a way that shows, reveals, self achievement, that maybe that is not such a good thing to do.
Love is the fruit of the Spirit, But my ability to LOVE comes from the spirit, not from any self achievement that i have done, i am as a filthy rag, worthless, sinful, wretched. It is He in me that LOVES and produces the fruits. The only thing that i do do, is to desire that i please Him in all things.
^i^ Responding to post# 17
This double-standard between certain laws of the Old Testament is hilarious to us atheists. You ignore the rules about what to eat and what not to eat, how to treat women on their period, and what sins carry a death penalty (except murder and rape for some arbitrary reason), and yet still cling to certain rules like "the" 10 commandments (and even in this case you ignore what is said after the third commandment where God reveals that he holds grudges for generations).
Why is "the" in scare quotes? Because there is more than one set of 10 commandments. Christians ignore the "other" 10 commandments found later in Exodus, despite these ones being "the" 10 commandments found in the ark of the covenent (because Moses broke the first ones). So why are these ones discriminated against while the first ones are still widely held onto?
Why is "the" in scare quotes? Because there is more than one set of 10 commandments. Christians ignore the "other" 10 commandments found later in Exodus, despite these ones being "the" 10 commandments found in the ark of the covenent (because Moses broke the first ones). So why are these ones discriminated against while the first ones are still widely held onto?
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True, that is exactly what i teach as well, i would say i can keep the 10 commandments perfectly and still not enter into Heaven, because i failed to LOVE ONE ANOTHER or failed to forgive my brother. For it is written if you do not forgive men their trespassed neither will your Father in Heaven forgive you yours. Therefore i can keep the 10 commandments PERFECTLY and still not go to Heaven because i failed to love and forgive my brother. It's not about the 10 commandments at all, it is a heart thing.
A person who steals from another, under the old covenant(10 commandments), commits sin because they broke a law "Thou shalt not steal"
A person who steals from another, under the new covenant(LOVE ONE ANOTHER), commits sin because they failed to love the one they stole from - NOTHING to do with the ten commandments or any LAW, it has everything to do with LOVING ONE ANOTHER.
^i^ Responding to post# 23
A person who steals from another, under the old covenant(10 commandments), commits sin because they broke a law "Thou shalt not steal"
A person who steals from another, under the new covenant(LOVE ONE ANOTHER), commits sin because they failed to love the one they stole from - NOTHING to do with the ten commandments or any LAW, it has everything to do with LOVING ONE ANOTHER.
^i^ Responding to post# 23
Jesus said it is a NEW commandment, you say it is not a new commandment. Tell me should i choose to believe Jesus or you?
Sorry, Jesus wins, Jesus said it was a NEW commandment, i am sorry that you do not believe Jesus, maybe if you can go back in time, you could tell Jesus to rephrase that statement and not say it is a NEW commandment, you know try to get Jesus to understand what you think it means. lol God forbid.
Strange, you say it is a new CONCEPT, but Jesus said it was a NEW COMMANDMENT. choosing again, is it a consept like keeth teaches or is it a new commandment like Jesus is teaching? Sorry again i choose Jesus. it is a NEW COMMANDMENT.
They did? Please show any verse where Jesus instructs Christians to continue to keep the 10 commandments, just one, would be sufficient. Or show any verse where the Apostles instructs Christians to continue to keep the 10 commandments, just one would suffice. Do you know how i know you can't show one verse, Because Jesus nor any Apostle ever taught us Christians to do that, it is ONLY the last days generation that try to teach things that Jesus or His Apostles never taught.
You are right in saying that the NEW commandment to LOVE ONE ANOTHER does not nullify the 10 commandments, there are many other Scriptures which plainly nullifies them.
^i^ Responding to post# 26
Sorry, Jesus wins, Jesus said it was a NEW commandment, i am sorry that you do not believe Jesus, maybe if you can go back in time, you could tell Jesus to rephrase that statement and not say it is a NEW commandment, you know try to get Jesus to understand what you think it means. lol God forbid.
Strange, you say it is a new CONCEPT, but Jesus said it was a NEW COMMANDMENT. choosing again, is it a consept like keeth teaches or is it a new commandment like Jesus is teaching? Sorry again i choose Jesus. it is a NEW COMMANDMENT.
They did? Please show any verse where Jesus instructs Christians to continue to keep the 10 commandments, just one, would be sufficient. Or show any verse where the Apostles instructs Christians to continue to keep the 10 commandments, just one would suffice. Do you know how i know you can't show one verse, Because Jesus nor any Apostle ever taught us Christians to do that, it is ONLY the last days generation that try to teach things that Jesus or His Apostles never taught.
You are right in saying that the NEW commandment to LOVE ONE ANOTHER does not nullify the 10 commandments, there are many other Scriptures which plainly nullifies them.
^i^ Responding to post# 26
I don't think the question here is about whether keeping the law is necessary for salvation, but whether Christians are still "under the law". Over several chapters in Romans, the apostle Paul made it abundantly clear that Christians don't lose their salvation through sin, but still ought to "follow the law". Along these lines, I would disagree that "it is a heart thing", unless "heart" is a synonym for "belief" (because how you feel about sin doesn't have anything to do with salvation, either).
Secondly, you seem to believe that "sin" can be defined as acting against love. You would definitely have to cherry-pick to make this argument, because it's quite easy to find many things declared as sinful that have nothing to do with a lack of love. Remember that loving money is the "root of all evil" -- such evil certainly isn't from a lack of love. Nor does a sin such as drunkenness have anything to do with love.
Secondly, you seem to believe that "sin" can be defined as acting against love. You would definitely have to cherry-pick to make this argument, because it's quite easy to find many things declared as sinful that have nothing to do with a lack of love. Remember that loving money is the "root of all evil" -- such evil certainly isn't from a lack of love. Nor does a sin such as drunkenness have anything to do with love.