We are not under the law

[DiscipleDave]

You make several self-contradictory claims.

They only appear that way to you, because you did not understand what i was saying.

"Sin under the new covenent has nothing to do with the law", yet "has everything to do with the Teachings of Jesus Christ and His Apostles". Did Jesus not teach the law?

Jesus taught the law to those who were still under the law, that is the old covenant. The Law is the old covenant. The old covenant is the 10 commandments.

Exodus 34:27 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. 28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

Christians are NOT under that covenant, That covenant was to Israel. The New Covenant began the moment it was witnessed that Jesus rose from the dead.

You claim that "all other commandments became OLD", and yet that would include commandments given by Jesus before that one.

Refresh my memory, what Commandments did Jesus give other than to LOVE ONE ANOTHER, He taught what we should do and how we should treat others and the such, but i can't recall Jesus COMMANDING anything prior to the New Commandment to LOVE ONE ANOTHER.

If that was the only important rule, why did he waste his breath on other teachings?

you do not understand what i said, i did NOT say that because all other commandments are OLD, that they are obsolete. i only said they became OLD. which makes the New Commandment from Jesus, Well NEW. And as i said before if a person would LOVE ONE ANOTHER they would fulfill the whole law. The other teachings that Jesus taught are not less important, they are just that teachings, NOT COMMANDMENTS.
Consider John

I John 3: 22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

This is the same John who, in his teachings said quoted Jesus saying over and over again "If you keep My commandments, you shall abide in My love" and "If you love Jesus you will keep His commandments"
Now this same John is about to tell us what His commandments are, pay attention, let us see if the he mentions the 10 commandments given to Israel under the old covenant.

I John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of Him, because we keep His commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment, That we should 1) believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and 2) love one another, as He gave us commandment.

There you have it, an Apostle of Jesus Christ plainly teaches us what His commandments are, That do, and do not hearken to others who teach that there are more commandments that a Christian is to do as well, above and beyond what the Apostle John teaches us.
My point is you do those two things, you fulfill the whole law, all of it. Those who teach you must do the 10 commandments are in error and do not know the Truth, But they whoever is reading this post, do now, know the Truth, for i have told you the Truth.

The bible didn't have an "Old Testament" and "New Testament" in Jesus' day... it was all just "scripture". And Jesus said not to do away with any of it. So why are you trying to "abolish the law"?

Have i said do away with it? Have i said to abolish it? i have not said any of these things. The Law will not be abolished until all the prophesies in the LAW are fulfilled. It is only when all the prophesies are fulfilled and Jesus takes the Church with Him, that not only the Old Testament will be abolished but the New Testament as well, will no longer be needed. For those who are accepted with Him, and are in their NEW bodies will KNOW all things, and will not have a need for a book, which they KNOW by heart.

^i^ Responding to post# 53

 

[Starcrash]

Most modern day Christians will agree that the 10 commandments are good and we should obey them... But as soon as you mention the Sabbath they say, "now wait a minute! The commandments were nailed to the cross!"

There are a very few practices that seem to be logical to replace with a "new covenant"... for example, it doesn't make sense for anyone to sacrifice animals for sin offerings (even though this practice seems to have phased out long before the "new covenant"). But... what about burnt offerings? Did the odor of such offerings please the Lord for centuries and then suddenly He thought they stunk? Why wouldn't He want them anymore?

As you implied, there are clearly many others that don't make sense to change. Observance of the Sabbath as a day of rest would be one that isn't kept anymore but doesn't make sense to change upon Jesus' death.

 

[DiscipleDave]

DiscipleDave said When Jesus said "A New Commandment i give unto you, to LOVE ONE ANOTHER....." All other commandments became OLD. Jesus Himself specifically told us Christians what He wanted us Christians to do, and that is to LOVE ONE ANOTHER. When a person fails to do that which Jesus Christ commanded them to do, they indeed commit sin under the new covenant which all Christians today are under. We are to do all that Jesus and His Apostles teach us to do. If they tell us to do something and we fail to do that something that is sin. Sin under the new covenant has nothing to do with the law, nothing to do with commandments, laws, statutes, and the such, it has everything to do with the Teachings of Jesus Christ and His Apostles.

Scroll up.. Are you calling Jesus a liar?

Are you serious, you ask me to scroll up, yet do not tell me what post to scroll too, or even what to look for when i am scrolling up. lol, please be more specific, i know it takes a little effort, but please try, a little bit of effort to try to help a brother is a good thing. You ask if i am calling Jesus a liar. Heaven's no, where did you think i did that? What are you referring to?
It is written in Rev 21:8 That ALL LIARS shall burn in the lake of fire and brimstone, wow, there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth from this generation won't there? For in this generation who does not lie? i will tell you though who are the biggest liars of all, are those who claim with their mouth that Jesus Christ is their Savior and Lord, and yet the knowingly and willingly do those things which they know is against God and do them any ways. Is it not written your master is to whom you obey? Many say Jesus is their Master yet they knowingly and willingly obey satan and commit sin, how is that not a liar?

^i^ Responding to post# 54

 

[RyBread]

Going by the comments in here most of you have broken at least one commandment..*laughs*

What is your intent with this?

 

[RyBread]

Are you serious, you ask me to scroll up, yet do not tell me what post to scroll too, or even what to look for when i am scrolling up. lol, please be more specific, i know it takes a little effort, but please try, a little bit of effort to try to help a brother is a good thing. You ask if i am calling Jesus a liar. Heaven's no, where did you think i did that? What are you referring to?
It is written in Rev 21:8 That ALL LIARS shall burn in the lake of fire and brimstone, wow, there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth from this generation won't there? For in this generation who does not lie? i will tell you though who are the biggest liars of all, are those who claim with their mouth that Jesus Christ is their Savior and Lord, and yet the knowingly and willingly do those things which they know is against God and do them any ways. Is it not written your master is to whom you obey? Many say Jesus is their Master yet they knowingly and willingly obey satan and commit sin, how is that not a liar?

^i^ Responding to post# 54

I mean scroll up to post #47.

 

[Starcrash]

They only appear that way to you, because you did not understand what i was saying.



Jesus taught the law to those who were still under the law, that is the old covenant. The Law is the old covenant. The old covenant is the 10 commandments.

Exodus 34:27 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. 28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

Christians are NOT under that covenant, That covenant was to Israel. The New Covenant began the moment it was witnessed that Jesus rose from the dead.



Refresh my memory, what Commandments did Jesus give other than to LOVE ONE ANOTHER, He taught what we should do and how we should treat others and the such, but i can't recall Jesus COMMANDING anything prior to the New Commandment to LOVE ONE ANOTHER.

you do not understand what i said, i did NOT say that because all other commandments are OLD, that they are obsolete. i only said they became OLD. which makes the New Commandment from Jesus, Well NEW. And as i said before if a person would LOVE ONE ANOTHER they would fulfill the whole law. The other teachings that Jesus taught are not less important, they are just that teachings, NOT COMMANDMENTS.
Consider John

I John 3: 22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

This is the same John who, in his teachings said quoted Jesus saying over and over again "If you keep My commandments, you shall abide in My love" and "If you love Jesus you will keep His commandments"
Now this same John is about to tell us what His commandments are, pay attention, let us see if the he mentions the 10 commandments given to Israel under the old covenant.

I John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of Him, because we keep His commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment, That we should 1) believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and 2) love one another, as He gave us commandment.

There you have it, an Apostle of Jesus Christ plainly teaches us what His commandments are, That do, and do not hearken to others who teach that there are more commandments that a Christian is to do as well, above and beyond what the Apostle John teaches us.
My point is you do those two things, you fulfill the whole law, all of it. Those who teach you must do the 10 commandments are in error and do not know the Truth, But they whoever is reading this post, do now, know the Truth, for i have told you the Truth.



Have i said do away with it? Have i said to abolish it? i have not said any of these things. The Law will not be abolished until all the prophesies in the LAW are fulfilled. It is only when all the prophesies are fulfilled and Jesus takes the Church with Him, that not only the Old Testament will be abolished but the New Testament as well, will no longer be needed. For those who are accepted with Him, and are in their NEW bodies will KNOW all things, and will not have a need for a book, which they KNOW by heart.

^i^ Responding to post# 53

I guess I did misunderstand you, but it ought to be clear why. You claim that the law was "old" but not "obsolete"... if you weren't implying that they were obsolete, then why even mention that they were old? What is the significance of them being old?

If every command before "the new covenant" became irrelevant after Jesus' death, wouldn't that include Jesus' commandment to love? He may have taught "the law" to the rich young ruler (as I cited) before the start of "the new covenant", but he also did that with all of his commandments. Those commandments (to refresh your memory) were things like "turn the other cheek", "pray privately", and "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's". Do you seriously think that Jesus said nothing except "love one another"? It leads me to believe that you haven't read the bible.

So... what do you mean when you call "the law" OLD? What is your point? If you're not suggesting that this means to ignore it, then you seem to be making an argument with no purpose. Who cares what's "new" and what's "old" if there is no difference in how each is to be treated?

 

[RyBread]

Jesus taught the law to those who were still under the law, that is the old covenant. The Law is the old covenant. The old covenant is the 10 commandments.

THAT is where you are incorrect sir. You are taking two separate covenants and calling them one covenant. God's Law and The Law of Moses. If you fail to understand this than all of Jesus' teachings and Paul's writings contradict themselves.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Once again you contradict yourself. Are you being stubborn or are you just not understanding? The Ten Commandments are the heart of the New Covenant just as they were the Old Covenant.

it is apparent you do not know what the old covenant was. The old covenant is the 10 commandments.

Exodus 34:27 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. 28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

So are you suggesting we are under a new covenant AND this covenant as well? yep that is what you are saying, if you teach we should keep the old covenant as well as the new covenant.

And please let's hear how you feel about Matthew 5:18-19

Matt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (Complete, as in fulfilling a contract, done, it is finished) 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. (key word here is fulfilled, Nothing in the Old Testament shall pass away, not one word of it not one single letter of it, laws, statutes, ordinances, all of it, till all the prophesies contained in it are FULFILLED, completed.) 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Now follow me here, Jesus was teaching a multitude who were currently under the old covenant, the 10 commandments, He Himself was still abiding in the old covenant all the time He was alive on Earth, Jesus taught people to live by the 10 commandments, He taught them to live by all the ordinances, all the statutes in the Torah. The New Covenant did not start until Jesus was risen from the dead. Jesus also told a man who asked Him "What must i do to be Saved" notice Jesus did NOT say believe in my resurrection, believe i am the Son of God, what did He say to the man when He asked Jesus "What must i do to be Saved" Jesus said keep the commandments, and the young man said which, and Jesus did not say Keep All 10 commandments, which would have been a perfect opportunity for Him to do so, no He specifically tells the man which ones to keep in order to be Saved, then the man said i do all those you just mentioned, what else, then Jesus if thou wilt be perfect go and sell all that you have and give it to the poor. All this, like verse 19 above, He was saying to people who were currently living under the old covenant, the laws of Moses. The New covenant starts when it was witnessed that Jesus had risen. Jesus could not have told the man to believe in His resurrection when it has not yet happened, therefore like verse 19 He is teaching the Truths concerning the old covenant, because that is what all the people, including Himself was living under at the time He was alive as a man on Earth.

^i^ Responding to post# 56

 

[RyBread]

The Decalogue (10 commandments, moral law) was spoken by God Himself Ex. 20:1, 22, written by God Himself in stone to signify it's permanence Ex. 31:18; 32:16, handed to Moses by God Himself Ex. 31:18, placed IN the ark Deut. 10:5.


Ceremonial Law was spoken by Moses Ex. 24:3, written by Moses in a book Ex. 24: 4; Deut. 31:9, handed to the Levites by Moses Deut. 31:25, 26, placed by the side of the ark Deut. 31:26.


God's law (the 10 commandments written in stone by God Himself) is a reflection of His character. That being said and Him being eternal - His law is also eternal. He is Righteous (Ezra 9:15), Perfect (Matt. 5:48), Holy (Lev. 19:2), Good (Ps. 34:8), Truth (Deut. 32:4). His law is Righteous (Ps 119:172), Perfect (Ps. 19:7), Holy (Rom. 7:12), Good (Rom. 7:12), Truth (Ps. 119:142). But while this is true of the eternal law of God as expressed in the Decalogue, it would not be true of the ceremonial law that God gave to Israel. This ceremonial law embraced the types and shadows that entered into the sacrificial system of Israel. All the sacrificial offerings, the feast days, and even the priesthood (all that was typical of the sacrifice and ministry of Christ) met its end on Calvary's cross. This is what is meant by the apostle Paul when he wrote that Christ "abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances" (Eph. 2:15).


His moral law that reflects His holy nature can never be changed. Jesus made that very very clear when he said "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heave and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till ALL be fulfilled. (Mat. 5:17, 18) Heaven and earth have NOT passed have they? ALL has NOT been fulfilled has it? This is plain to see and undeniable TRUTH. Let's continue to read what Jesus says. "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (Mat. 5:19) Why would Jesus say that? I mean seriously.. Think about that. That alone should be enough by itself. Read it again! It's simple! Was Jesus contradicting himself? Of course not. It's clear that He came to fulfill the law and not do away with it to replace it with the Roman Catholic version of the new covenant.

The 10 commandments show us how bad we are and how desperately in need of a Savior we are. Ceremonial laws are different. Ceremonial laws included instructions on animal sacrifice (Exodus 20:24), circumcision (Genesis 17:10), ceremonial feasts (Deuteronomy 16:10) and so on. Such laws pointed forward in time to Christ’s atonement for sin on the cross. They gave the Israelites hope of a future Savior, who would pay for their sins. But we no longer look to the future for Christ to pay for our sins. That is now a part of history. Therefore, we do not practice the Old Testament rituals that point forward to Christ’s first coming. Paul explains in Galatians 3:24-25, “Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.”


In this context, what does Paul mean by “the law?” Does he mean that all Old Testament laws have been set aside? Are we now free to murder, kidnap, lie, steal, and so on? Clearly not (Romans 6:15). Paul is using synecdoche: “the law” in this context is referring to the ceremonial law. This is clear because it is the ceremonial law which was a “tutor to lead us to Christ.” Does God’s moral law lead us to Christ? No, rather, it shows us that we are sinners. But it does not tell us how to be redeemed. Rather, it is the ceremonial laws which showed the need for blood atonement (Leviticus 17:11). It was these ceremonial laws that foreshadowed the coming of Christ--the Lamb that would take away the sins of the world (John 1:29). Now that the object of our faith has come (Christ), we are no longer under a tutor (the Old Testament ceremonial laws).

 

[DiscipleDave]

There are a very few practices that seem to be logical to replace with a "new covenant"... for example, it doesn't make sense for anyone to sacrifice animals for sin offerings (even though this practice seems to have phased out long before the "new covenant"). But... what about burnt offerings? Did the odor of such offerings please the Lord for centuries and then suddenly He thought they stunk? Why wouldn't He want them anymore?

As you implied, there are clearly many others that don't make sense to change. Observance of the Sabbath as a day of rest would be one that isn't kept anymore but doesn't make sense to change upon Jesus' death.

i have kept the Sabbath now for over 13 years, i will not work on the Sabbath, even when i was offered triple pay, i would not work on a Sabbath. But even though i keep the Sabbath, i don't keep it because it is a commandment, or that i MUST keep it, i keep it because i think it pleases Jesus that i do so, not that it is one of the ten commandments, not that i Have to do it, not that i am commanded to do, i do it because i try to do all things to please Him, and i think keeping a day of rest in His Honor pleases Him, and therefore that s why i do it. NOT BECAUSE IT IS THE LAW.

^i^ Responding to post# 62

 

[DiscipleDave]

I mean scroll up to post #47.

Post 47 is responding to royalscot's message, are you asking me to read what you wrote to him?

^i^ Responding to post# 65

 

[RyBread]

it is apparent you do not know what the old covenant was. The old covenant is the 10 commandments.





Matt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (Complete, as in fulfilling a contract, done, it is finished) 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. (key word here is fulfilled, Nothing in the Old Testament shall pass away, not one word of it not one single letter of it, laws, statutes, ordinances, all of it, till all the prophesies contained in it are FULFILLED, completed.) 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Now follow me here, Jesus was teaching a multitude who were currently under the old covenant, the 10 commandments, He Himself was still abiding in the old covenant all the time He was alive on Earth, Jesus taught people to live by the 10 commandments, He taught them to live by all the ordinances, all the statutes in the Torah. The New Covenant did not start until Jesus was risen from the dead. Jesus also told a man who asked Him "What must i do to be Saved" notice Jesus did NOT say believe in my resurrection, believe i am the Son of God, what did He say to the man when He asked Jesus "What must i do to be Saved" Jesus said keep the commandments, and the young man said which, and Jesus did not say Keep All 10 commandments, which would have been a perfect opportunity for Him to do so, no He specifically tells the man which ones to keep in order to be Saved, then the man said i do all those you just mentioned, what else, then Jesus if thou wilt be perfect go and sell all that you have and give it to the poor. All this, like verse 19 above, He was saying to people who were currently living under the old covenant, the laws of Moses. The New covenant starts when it was witnessed that Jesus had risen. Jesus could not have told the man to believe in His resurrection when it has not yet happened, therefore like verse 19 He is teaching the Truths concerning the old covenant, because that is what all the people, including Himself was living under at the time He was alive as a man on Earth.

^i^ Responding to post# 56

You cannot dance around 1 word and dismiss the rest of the scripture. That is called taking out of context. Heaven and earth pass and ALL is fulfilled In Revelations 21 because there will be no more sin then!

Revelations 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Revelations 21:6-8 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.[SUP]7 [/SUP]He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[RyBread]

Just beware sir. It's not me you need to answer to.. Matthew5:19 "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

RyBread out,

 

[DiscipleDave]

I guess I did misunderstand you, but it ought to be clear why. You claim that the law was "old" but not "obsolete"... if you weren't implying that they were obsolete, then why even mention that they were old? What is the significance of them being old?

i understand what you are saying, but this is one of those situations that is the glass half full or half empty kind of thing. I was never focusing on the old, i was focusing on the new. When i said Jesus said "A New Commandment i give unto you, to LOVE ONE ANOTHER, i only said that made all other commands OLD, Trying to make the New more significant , being that it is a NEW Commandment that Jesus Christ gives Himself, is what i am trying to get the focus on, not saying the old is obsolute, just saying they are not nearly as important and the NEW commandment that we just got from Christ. However i realize that by trying to make the NEW significant, it could be seen as trying to make the OLD insignificant. That was not my intention nor my desire. And i commend you for your statement "I guess I did misunderstand you" This reveals that you have a teachable spirit, and wisdom, both of which the people in this generation seriously lacks. But even though i commend you on this, its to bad you are not of the faith. i only wander what happened, because you use to be. God could use you in great ways, but something happened, But God is still trying to draw you back to Him, else you would not be reading this post right now.

^i^ Responding to post# 66

If every command before "the new covenant" became irrelevant after Jesus' death, wouldn't that include Jesus' commandment to love? He may have taught "the law" to the rich young ruler (as I cited) before the start of "the new covenant", but he also did that with all of his commandments. Those commandments (to refresh your memory) were things like "turn the other cheek", "pray privately", and "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's". Do you seriously think that Jesus said nothing except "love one another"? It leads me to believe that you haven't read the bible.

So... what do you mean when you call "the law" OLD? What is your point? If you're not suggesting that this means to ignore it, then you seem to be making an argument with no purpose. Who cares what's "new" and what's "old" if there is no difference in how each is to be treated?[/QUOTE]

 

[DiscipleDave]

THAT is where you are incorrect sir. You are taking two separate covenants and calling them one covenant. God's Law and The Law of Moses. If you fail to understand this than all of Jesus' teachings and Paul's writings contradict themselves.

There are two different covenants, the old and the new, and i have NEVER said they are one, another poster was saying they are one. The old covenant was about LAWS ,ordinances, statutes, Do's and Don'ts, it was about obedience to the Law of Moses, to the Law of God, that was the old covenant. The new covenant is all about the heart, LOVING ONE ANOTHER, Doing unto others as you have them do unto you, the new covenant is about believing is Jesus, being under GRACE, being under the LAW of Liberty, NOT Do's and Don'ts, NOT laws, NOT ordinances, NOT statutes. The problem is people try to ADD parts of the old covenant to that which we are now under which is the new covenant. The old covenant is the 10 commandments that Israel agreed they would follow and obey. When people in this generation who are under the new covenant, try to teach that we should live under parts of the old covenant, are tying to mix the two, are trying to make them ONE covenant, this i have not done.

^i^ Responding to post# 67

 

[DiscipleDave]

The Decalogue (10 commandments, moral law) was spoken by God Himself Ex. 20:1, 22, written by God Himself in stone to signify it's permanence Ex. 31:18; 32:16, handed to Moses by God Himself Ex. 31:18, placed IN the ark Deut. 10:5.


Ceremonial Law was spoken by Moses Ex. 24:3, written by Moses in a book Ex. 24: 4; Deut. 31:9, handed to the Levites by Moses Deut. 31:25, 26, placed by the side of the ark Deut. 31:26.


God's law (the 10 commandments written in stone by God Himself) is a reflection of His character. That being said and Him being eternal - His law is also eternal. He is Righteous (Ezra 9:15), Perfect (Matt. 5:48), Holy (Lev. 19:2), Good (Ps. 34:8), Truth (Deut. 32:4). His law is Righteous (Ps 119:172), Perfect (Ps. 19:7), Holy (Rom. 7:12), Good (Rom. 7:12), Truth (Ps. 119:142). But while this is true of the eternal law of God as expressed in the Decalogue, it would not be true of the ceremonial law that God gave to Israel. This ceremonial law embraced the types and shadows that entered into the sacrificial system of Israel. All the sacrificial offerings, the feast days, and even the priesthood (all that was typical of the sacrifice and ministry of Christ) met its end on Calvary's cross. This is what is meant by the apostle Paul when he wrote that Christ "abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances" (Eph. 2:15).


His moral law that reflects His holy nature can never be changed. Jesus made that very very clear when he said "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heave and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till ALL be fulfilled. (Mat. 5:17, 18) Heaven and earth have NOT passed have they? ALL has NOT been fulfilled has it? This is plain to see and undeniable TRUTH. Let's continue to read what Jesus says. "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (Mat. 5:19) Why would Jesus say that? I mean seriously.. Think about that. That alone should be enough by itself. Read it again! It's simple! Was Jesus contradicting himself? Of course not. It's clear that He came to fulfill the law and not do away with it to replace it with the Roman Catholic version of the new covenant.

The 10 commandments show us how bad we are and how desperately in need of a Savior we are. Ceremonial laws are different. Ceremonial laws included instructions on animal sacrifice (Exodus 20:24), circumcision (Genesis 17:10), ceremonial feasts (Deuteronomy 16:10) and so on. Such laws pointed forward in time to Christ’s atonement for sin on the cross. They gave the Israelites hope of a future Savior, who would pay for their sins. But we no longer look to the future for Christ to pay for our sins. That is now a part of history. Therefore, we do not practice the Old Testament rituals that point forward to Christ’s first coming. Paul explains in Galatians 3:24-25, “Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.”


In this context, what does Paul mean by “the law?” Does he mean that all Old Testament laws have been set aside? Are we now free to murder, kidnap, lie, steal, and so on? Clearly not (Romans 6:15). Paul is using synecdoche: “the law” in this context is referring to the ceremonial law. This is clear because it is the ceremonial law which was a “tutor to lead us to Christ.” Does God’s moral law lead us to Christ? No, rather, it shows us that we are sinners. But it does not tell us how to be redeemed. Rather, it is the ceremonial laws which showed the need for blood atonement (Leviticus 17:11). It was these ceremonial laws that foreshadowed the coming of Christ--the Lamb that would take away the sins of the world (John 1:29). Now that the object of our faith has come (Christ), we are no longer under a tutor (the Old Testament ceremonial laws).

God's law (10 commandments) and Moses law (Statutes and Ordinances), were both part of the old covenant that was given to the Israelites to follow and obey. The 10 commandments was a covenant to Israel. The laws of Moses was also given to the Israel. Both of them were part of the old covenant. Do research on convenants, you will find there were many covenants that were a part of the old covenant.
Old covenant = An agreement that was made between God and Israel
New covenant = An Agreement that is made between God and a believer.

That is the Truth.
Even God and Lucifer have a covenant. Read Job and see this covenant at work. satan can do nothing physically to a person without permission from God. If satan had his way, he would kill everyone BEFORE they had a chance to accept Christ as their Savior and Lord, but he can't because of the covenant.

^i^ Responding to post# 69

 

[DiscipleDave]

You cannot dance around 1 word and dismiss the rest of the scripture. That is called taking out of context. Heaven and earth pass and ALL is fulfilled In Revelations 21 because there will be no more sin then!

i see, so what you are saying it is OK to dismiss one word, to make the verse fit with your belief. That one word is inspired by God. Tell me, why is it you are dismissing the one word? i have not dismiss the verse, i believe the verse just find, and even believe the one word, which you are dismissing because it does not fit into what you THINK is the Truth.

Revelations 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Revelations 21:6-8 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.[SUP]7 [/SUP]He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

i do apologize for my ignorance, but i have no ideal why you are quoting these verses, i believe every one of them, is that why you quoted them? are you asking me if i believe them, or do you want me to tell you what each verse is teaching? As i said i do not know why you quoted these verses.

^i^ Responding to post# 72

 

[DiscipleDave]

Just beware sir. It's not me you need to answer to.. Matthew5:19 "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

RyBread out,

believe and hold on to one verse, all the while ignoring and making void or interpreting away many other verses, is that Godly?

OK, Love you, see you on another post or another day.

^i^ Responding to post#73

 

[Starcrash]

i understand what you are saying, but this is one of those situations that is the glass half full or half empty kind of thing. I was never focusing on the old, i was focusing on the new. When i said Jesus said "A New Commandment i give unto you, to LOVE ONE ANOTHER, i only said that made all other commands OLD, Trying to make the New more significant , being that it is a NEW Commandment that Jesus Christ gives Himself, is what i am trying to get the focus on, not saying the old is obsolute, just saying they are not nearly as important and the NEW commandment that we just got from Christ. However i realize that by trying to make the NEW significant, it could be seen as trying to make the OLD insignificant. That was not my intention nor my desire. And i commend you for your statement "I guess I did misunderstand you" This reveals that you have a teachable spirit, and wisdom, both of which the people in this generation seriously lacks. But even though i commend you on this, its to bad you are not of the faith. i only wander what happened, because you use to be. God could use you in great ways, but something happened, But God is still trying to draw you back to Him, else you would not be reading this post right now.

^i^ Responding to post# 66

See... it still sounds like you're trying to hint that "old" laws in the bible are obsolete. You claim that the new law of "love one another" is "more important", but I guess the question is still the same: what is the significance of this claim? If all of the commands still have to be followed, it doesn't matter which ones are "important" and which ones aren't. Whether or not you think Do Not Covet is an "important" commandment (and I certainly agree that it isn't), you'd still be sinning by coveting. So why are you so insistent on this point if not trying to hint something like "it's so unimportant that it doesn't count as sin if you break it"? Why else would it matter at all?

Personally, I don't think it's "bad that I'm not of the faith". My life is certainly much freer without the guilt that comes with commands that can't be kept ("pray without ceasing"? give me a break). Do you know how it sounds when someone says things like "God could use you"? Try this: Allah could use you. It's so unfortunate that you don't have faith in Allah. You may not believe in Allah, but he sure believes in you! When you hear these statements, does any of it make you want to be Muslim? No? Yeah, I didn't think so. It's a pointless argument.

 

[phil112]

[h=2]We are not under the law, So we can ignore the 10 commandments, right?

[/h]Right. Only sinners are under the law. The law is for the lawless, those that disobey. Glad to see some of you finally catching on.