We are not under the law
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If Salvation is entirely without human effort ‘not of works’, Why must Repentance be proven by deeds? Acts26:18-21 and why does Js2:24 speak of Abraham being saved by what he did and Not by Faith alone? The free gift is Remission of past sins, Rom3:25, (that have been repented of) not covering of all future sins. The ‘Works’ spoken of by Paul are the works of the law, (circumcision, rituals, days, etc.) Not the Deeds of Faith. (Repentance, obedience, crucifying the flesh, heart purity) Jesus said eternal life would be given to those who by Patience Continuance in doing good, Romans 2:4-11, obey God from their heart. (Made pure by faith (obedience to the truth), 1 Peter 1-21-22, Rom2:7, 6:16, and faith ‘works’ by love Gal5:6. If man doesn’t have to make any effort whatsoever in the process of Salvation why does the Bible constantly tell us to “work together” and “strive”, with God so as to not receive His Grace in Vain? 2Cor6:1. ‘Synergy’ (working together) is effort and requires free will and Ability (Ecc 7-29) and that’s why we will finally be judged by our DEEDS done in Faith! Rev22:11-14, 1Pet1:17, Jh5:28-29.
it looks like and i believe you love the truth ! many in the world and here do not.
it is simple - did the red sea part before or after moses' hands were raised and he obeyed yahweh ?
did the evidence of the Spirit of Yahweh, His very Breath, occur after laying on of hands ? ever ? or by
sitting
on couch (potatoes) just waiting - supposedly NOT EVEN TWIDDLING THUMBS IS ALLOWED BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE "WORKSSSSS" !?!?!?.....
but when the mind is clouded by demons, there is nothing man can do to remove the veil, ever.
so we walk on in truth, loving truth, and doing everything all the time that ABBA YAHWEH ELOHIM says,
and those who stubbornly don't....? we (ekklesia) just shrug our shoulders and go on... Yahweh has everything under control, we don't control others, but we do rejoice with everlasting to everlasting joy and life and truth and righteousness as we walk in UNION WITH HIM IN YAHSHUA as it is written.
it is simple - did the red sea part before or after moses' hands were raised and he obeyed yahweh ?
did the evidence of the Spirit of Yahweh, His very Breath, occur after laying on of hands ? ever ? or by
sitting
on couch (potatoes) just waiting - supposedly NOT EVEN TWIDDLING THUMBS IS ALLOWED BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE "WORKSSSSS" !?!?!?.....
but when the mind is clouded by demons, there is nothing man can do to remove the veil, ever.
so we walk on in truth, loving truth, and doing everything all the time that ABBA YAHWEH ELOHIM says,
and those who stubbornly don't....? we (ekklesia) just shrug our shoulders and go on... Yahweh has everything under control, we don't control others, but we do rejoice with everlasting to everlasting joy and life and truth and righteousness as we walk in UNION WITH HIM IN YAHSHUA as it is written.
B
The rich young man in (Mark 10:17-24) observed the commandments from his youth up but lacked because he trusted in riches...
17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.
23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!
Jesus did not tell him to give to the poor, he told him to sell all he had and give it to the poor, come, take up his cross and follow Him and he would have reward and riches in heaven. Did the commandments cause this young rich man to enter into life? Not in this story, for this man needed to give up that very thing that he put his trust, though he observed all the commandments. This man did not trust in the promise that Christ gave to him, to come and follow Him and to have the riches of life in the kingdom of God.
1 John 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.
23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!
Jesus did not tell him to give to the poor, he told him to sell all he had and give it to the poor, come, take up his cross and follow Him and he would have reward and riches in heaven. Did the commandments cause this young rich man to enter into life? Not in this story, for this man needed to give up that very thing that he put his trust, though he observed all the commandments. This man did not trust in the promise that Christ gave to him, to come and follow Him and to have the riches of life in the kingdom of God.
1 John 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
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The rich young ruler had another God beside God, that is the reason Christ did not mention the first four, He was setting the young man up to teach him a lesson about the importance of putting God first...
Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
Mat 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
Mat 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
The lesson was not to set your hopes or your trust in wealth...
Mat 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
Mat 6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
But the rich young ruler could not let go. He violated the first four (Love God) and at least the tenth of the last six Commandments.
Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
Mat 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
Mat 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
The lesson was not to set your hopes or your trust in wealth...
Mat 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
Mat 6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
But the rich young ruler could not let go. He violated the first four (Love God) and at least the tenth of the last six Commandments.
oy,,,, silver and gold have i none...
but such as i have have no others, but few,
in the name of jesus christ of nazareth, be continually blessed with yahweh's dwelling presence abiding in union with yahshua, with all ekklesia everywhere, with righteousness, peace and joy to your entire household (as yahweh permits and accomplishes, as he is pleased to do),
and let the enemy be tossed into the sea !
but such as i have have no others, but few,
in the name of jesus christ of nazareth, be continually blessed with yahweh's dwelling presence abiding in union with yahshua, with all ekklesia everywhere, with righteousness, peace and joy to your entire household (as yahweh permits and accomplishes, as he is pleased to do),
and let the enemy be tossed into the sea !
B
John 832 - How many of those commandments have you honored from your youth to keep your salvation intact and your inheritance of eternal life secured? It just reveals how ludicrous it is to depend on keeping the commandments as a measure and means for life eternal. Our hearts are so deceitful and desperately wicked that we could fail just in our motivation without violating outwardly any of the commandments. I would wager that the number one commandment we have all failed the most is loving God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength.
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god plan, would be to save the rest of the world, and this would include jewish people also.
6 he says:
"It is too light a thing that you should be my servant
to raise up the tribes of Jacob
and to bring back the preserved of Israel;
I will make you as a light for the nations,
that my salvation may reach to the end of the earth."Isaiah 49
looks like god has his plan in place.
good old 70 ad would ask how can a non christian jewish person follow the full law. (although you would know this )
they were given the christian jews a new covenant too. (about 32ad pentecoste.acts 2)
9 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,30 since God is one---who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.Romans 3
so what your point
6 he says:
"It is too light a thing that you should be my servant
to raise up the tribes of Jacob
and to bring back the preserved of Israel;
I will make you as a light for the nations,
that my salvation may reach to the end of the earth."Isaiah 49
looks like god has his plan in place.
good old 70 ad would ask how can a non christian jewish person follow the full law. (although you would know this )
they were given the christian jews a new covenant too. (about 32ad pentecoste.acts 2)
9 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,30 since God is one---who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.Romans 3
so what your point
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Since you are unable to answer this, I will...
There is one Law for all...
Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
The real understanding of Acts 15 comes not from pulling a couple of verses out of context but rather from reading the chapter...
Act 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
The question is about circumcision, physical circumcision. Circumcision of the heart is required...
Deu 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
Bet you thought that was a New Testament concept. That has been God's intention all along. Notice this is at a future time?
Act 15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
Notice how many and what questions? "This question", the question of physical circumcision. Now on down we read...
Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
So, the Pharisees were saying the Gentiles needed to keep the Law of circumcision (of the flesh) and the other physical, ceremonial Laws. The point being that the Holy Spirit was leading the church into this...
Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
The Holy Spirit was guiding the church into the understanding of how to apply physical Laws like circumcision. Now let's see if this applies to the Ten Commandments...
Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Now what particular Commandment is Paul saying that is still in effect? The seventh Commandment.
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
And here he shows that the tenth Commandment is still in effect. He is showing that the Commandments are in effect but in Acts 15 he also brings the point out that there are certain of the Laws that do not apply in a physical way today...
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Who was it trying to put this yoke on them?
Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Now what yoke is this?
Mar 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mar 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
Mar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
There is one Law for all...
Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
The real understanding of Acts 15 comes not from pulling a couple of verses out of context but rather from reading the chapter...
Act 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
The question is about circumcision, physical circumcision. Circumcision of the heart is required...
Deu 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
Bet you thought that was a New Testament concept. That has been God's intention all along. Notice this is at a future time?
Act 15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
Notice how many and what questions? "This question", the question of physical circumcision. Now on down we read...
Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
So, the Pharisees were saying the Gentiles needed to keep the Law of circumcision (of the flesh) and the other physical, ceremonial Laws. The point being that the Holy Spirit was leading the church into this...
Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
The Holy Spirit was guiding the church into the understanding of how to apply physical Laws like circumcision. Now let's see if this applies to the Ten Commandments...
Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Now what particular Commandment is Paul saying that is still in effect? The seventh Commandment.
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
And here he shows that the tenth Commandment is still in effect. He is showing that the Commandments are in effect but in Acts 15 he also brings the point out that there are certain of the Laws that do not apply in a physical way today...
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Who was it trying to put this yoke on them?
Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Now what yoke is this?
Mar 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mar 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
Mar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Now, for those of you who believe that Acts 15 relieves the Gentiles of the responsibility of keeping the Ten Commandments...
Act 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
If this is all that is required of a Gentile, explain how they can have other gods before God, take His holy name in vain, break the Sabbath, dishonor their parents, murder, steal, lie and lust and be guiltless.
Please explain that for us.
Act 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
If this is all that is required of a Gentile, explain how they can have other gods before God, take His holy name in vain, break the Sabbath, dishonor their parents, murder, steal, lie and lust and be guiltless.
Please explain that for us.
Well I read it until you tried to reason the tenth commandment was still in existence BECAUSE OF WHAT Paul wrote in rom7:7. HE WROTE THAT TO GIVE AN EXAMPLE OF WHY HE HAD TO DIE TO A LAW OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.
As for rom 7:3 that was an illustration of dying to the law.
The reason they only stipulated four laws in Acts 15 for gentiles to follow(three of which were to appease Jewish legalists) is because under the new covenant the law you are required to keep is written on your mind and placed on your heart.
As for rom 7:3 that was an illustration of dying to the law.
The reason they only stipulated four laws in Acts 15 for gentiles to follow(three of which were to appease Jewish legalists) is because under the new covenant the law you are required to keep is written on your mind and placed on your heart.