What do you need for salvation again?

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psalm6819

Guest
#61
@Pureinheart God sacrificed the most precious and valuable and perfect One out of love for us, In Revelation it says " He who washed us in His own blood" do you truly think that we can improve or add to that?

Focus more on what Jesus did than on what you do and the changes are His changes of our heart..not behavior modification on ours.

He loves us dearly knowing beforehand every decision right or wrong that we would make.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#62

Ephesians 2:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.


So what is the gift of God that saved you?

After all it is written in James 2:18
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
 
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D

Depleted

Guest
#63
LOL, surely you jest, right?

My tongue has been firmly in my cheek throughout this, (long way to say, I'm kidding throughout most of this), but I really was thinking maybe you're considering all of God's gifts as compared to the one I'm talking about -- salvation.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
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#64
So what is the gift of God that saved you?

After all it is written in James 2:18
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
The gift of God is eternal life, the Holy Spirit, the gift of righteousness, the gift of God is Christ Jesus in us!

There are threads that talk about what James was talking about in regard to works and what Paul was talking about regarding grace. I encourage you to check them out. I have no interest in rehashing it all again.
 
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Depleted

Guest
#65
All sin and fall short of the glory of God, however there IS the righteous (obedient) and the unrighteous (disobedient). Our obedience does not earn the gift of grace, but God only gives the gift of grace to those who obey Him. Our obedience does not earn it- that's why it's still a gift. But God does not give it to those who disobey Him. IF we confess our sins and have fellowship with Him, He will forgive us. "IF" is a condition that must be met. "With flames of fire God will take vengeance on those who know not God, and OBEY NOT the gospel of His Son."

I'm not saying we have to do everything perfectly all the time, I'm saying we have to put forth effort into trying, and ask for forgiveness when we fail. There are many scriptures with the words "must", "if", these are conditional statements, conditions must be met.

By feeding I meant feeding off the word of God (studying).

And what do you mean by saying you'd be a goner? Do you mean that if that was the case (and it is) that you would no long try to live as a Christian?

By remaining faithful until death I mean remain obedient to God until you die, remain in the category of the righteous who also fall short, but are forgiven because they uphold their part of the covenant (agreement) and God upholds His.

It is not enough for a baby to be born. They MUST continue blood circulation, they must feed, they must grow. If they do not they will die. In the same way, when you are born again, you must stay in the body of Christ (church- Christ's body) in order to keep the blood flowing (Lords Supper) because the bible says the life is in the blood. And Jesus says, "l tell you the truth, unless you eat of the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you." (Lords Supper).

Those who think that once they are saved they can just kick their feet up and wait for heaven, are in for a rude awakening. We MUST take up our cross DAILY and follow Him.
Not everyone who says to Him Lord Lord, but only those who do (not did, but ongoing) the will of His Father.
I didn't really finish reading your post, because you seem to think this is about grace. I think we have more than enough posts on grace lately. Not touching that one again. No, again, the subject is salvation. I'm just not interested in your study of grace, because it's about as related to my question as glorification.
 
May 20, 2016
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#66
I'm reading another thread on salvation, (and, no, Miri, I'm not going to mention your poll at all :rolleyes:), and this salvation issues is getting complexed again. So what do we need to be saved?

So far, I'm hearing -- believing a whole lot, faith a whole lot, going back to..., understanding, and what else is there?

Feel free to add to the list. It really is getting quite complicated for me and I have the memory of a sieve.

All this time I thought it was Jesus. And Jesus alone. He is the author and the finisher, but apparently I'm wrong, so how many ways to God are there again? And how much did I just become responsible for my own salvation?
If you mean by salvation going to the kingdom of God with Jesus Christ, then Jesus told us what one needs.

(John 12:47-48) “If anyone hears my words and does not keep them faithfully, it is not I who shall condemn him, since I have come not to condemn the world, but to save the world: he who rejects me and refuses my words has his judge already; the word itself that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.”

(Matthew 7:21) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”
 
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Depleted

Guest
#67
We only obey Christ by believing? Even demons believe, they will not be saved. Paul's belief, prayer, fasting, etc did not save him. It wasn't until as Ananias said, "What are you waiting for, arise, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on the name of the Lord." There is only one thing that saves- and that is Christ's blood- which we come in contact with through baptism. Romans 6:3- "Or don't you know that all of us who baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death." In His death is where He shed His blood.

Belief baptizes us into Christ? The only way we get IN Christ is we are baptized INTO Christ as Romans 6:3 says. Yes water baptism. 1 Peter 3:21 says this baptism saves us. If baptism does not save us, then God is made out to be a liar, cause He says it does.

Partaking of of the Lords Supper is religious nonsense? It is our covenant in His blood. He says, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat of the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you."

Remain faithful. No, if you miss taking the Lords Supper one Sunday you will not die, but if you did indefinitely you would. It's like when you cut of circulation to your foot and it falls asleep, and when it returns it hurts, but the tissue is not dead, because the absence of blood flow was temporary. But if you tied a rubber-band tightly around your finger and cut off blood flow so long that it turns gangrene and falls off, the tissue has died and can never be part of the body again. In the same way, spiritually speaking, life is in Christ's blood and we must stay in contact with it, faithfully until you die.

Repenting is an ongoing thing. We must put forth effort to turn away from our sins, otherwise we'd be living in sin like the world does, and to love the ways of the world is to hate God.

Why is it so hard for you to grasp the concept that our obedience does not earn grace, but God only gives grace to those who actively try to obey Him? God will not save one just because he believes. They would not call Jesus Lord Lord if they didn't believe, nor would they do things in His name. But he will say to them, depart from Me you who practice lawlessness (they did not OBEY His laws!) Don't you see that you must obey? Nothing we could possibly obey could earn us salvation, but it is only given to those who obey His commands. No, one has ever done so perfectly- and that's where grace comes in, but we only get that gift if we are trying. Effort is the evidence of love. "If you love Me you WILL obey what I command."
Why is it hard for you to accept I asked about salvation, not grace? They're not synonyms.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#68

I'm sorry to inform you but most of this stuff is not the gospel..I know it is what some religious places teach. Water baptism no more saves a person then Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation.

We are baptized into the body of Christ by the Holy Spirit when we believe in Christ. Acts 10:43-47 is the example of this. Ephesians 1:13 shows it as well.

I said that communion is something that we get to do to remember what Christ has done for us.......what is religious nonsense is this false teaching that "
partake of the Lord's Supper on the first day of the week in the assembly of the saints" - if we don't do this , then we are cast away from the Lord. This is what is complete religious nonsense - not the taking of communion.

I believe you mean well but these teachings are a mixed up works-based religion taught by man using scripture out of context.

Everything in the kingdom of God comes by believing in the finished work of Christ for us.

As far as the Lord, Lord scripture goes..

Notice that in Matt 7:19-23..Jesus said "I never knew you "...these people were not believers.....

Jesus did not say " I knew you once " but that He "never knew " them at all. These are unbelievers.

Everyone when they see Jesus will call Him Lord.....because He is Lord to believers and unbelievers alike.

John 10:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.


Jesus did the "will of God"...and delivered us from this present evil world

Galatians 1:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

It is God in us that gives us the will and the ability to do His will.

Philippians 2:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

The Will of the Father is to believe on Jesus.

1 John 3:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

The good works we do are from "being in Christ"..being lead by the Holy Spirit. Notice God has prepared them for us. We walk them out as we life our lives dependent on Him.

Ephesians 2:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

[SUP]10 [/SUP] For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
THERE ARE PLENTY OF GRACE TOPICS ON THIS SITE. THIS IS NOT ONE OF THEM!!!
 

vic1980

Senior Member
Apr 25, 2013
1,653
199
63
44
#69
Topic [h=2]What do you need for salvation again?[/h]
The dying transgressor cannot purchase one hour's respite to seek mercy for his perishing soul. Let us then learn rightly to value our souls, and Christ as the only Saviour of them. - Matthew Henry

Shalom




 
D

Depleted

Guest
#71
Okay, so, so far, all we need to do to work out our own salvation is --
- believe
- declare (also known as confess)
- faith
- understanding
- going back to God
- holding on
- obey
- baptism (the born again kind, which, just for the record, I agree with, but that's 'cuz God does that)
- the Lord's supper which is now to be taken on the first day of the week
- word feeding (still not getting what that is)
- growing
- remaining
- hearing
- agreeing
- confessing (some finer points on confessing is being argued, so maybe more to add later)
- get wet (baptized by H2O this time) when you change your mind
- worketh not (which is a bit bizarre to add to a list full of works that we have to do)
- repent (Might be wrong on that one, because I'm not sure I'm understanding that post)
- drink
- seeing the Lord in the daily chant (also not sure if I'm getting that one right, 'cuz I don't understand)
- grab
- obtain
- possibly a second and third salvation might be required
- looking-beholding-seeing
- (on the good news side, mutes don't have to speak, and men about to die don't have to get wet)

Whew! That's a lot of work. Anyone tired with all the work YOU do to save YOURself? Did God have anything at all to do with it?

I thought we were the saved, and Jesus is the Savior? Did he get something wrong, so your covering for him? Was he inefficient, so you need to add even more? There's a lot of adding to God's work.

Once saved, something happens. Strange thing is that list has a lot of words that fit into after saved. After saved, we're sanctified. If you check out sanctified in the Bible -- all of it, since it is about the same thing in both Testament, except that problem we keep getting gets resolved, so when we screw up God intervenes, you'll discover that happens to us after we get saved.

I've been having fun with this most of the day, because so many really do think we have something to do with our salvation. We don't. God did all that. Free gift. And then? Then sanctification -- side by side with God working out that salvation he never ever made us do something to get!

So, this has all been about defining terms. Saved is once only. Sanctified is a journey together.

Easier? A lot less complexed on salvation. If you want to argue over what we're supposed to do, then argue sanctified. I suspect that would be a cool argument. Just stop calling it salvation, because we were merely the recipients of salvation, not the earners.

Capicci?
 
P

PurerInHeart

Guest
#73

I'm sorry to inform you but most of this stuff is not the gospel..I know it is what some religious places teach. Water baptism no more saves a person then Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation.

We are baptized into the body of Christ by the Holy Spirit when we believe in Christ. Acts 10:43-47 is the example of this. Ephesians 1:13 shows it as well.

I said that communion is something that we get to do to remember what Christ has done for us.......what is religious nonsense is this false teaching that "
partake of the Lord's Supper on the first day of the week in the assembly of the saints" - if we don't do this , then we are cast away from the Lord. This is what is complete religious nonsense - not the taking of communion.

I believe you mean well but these teachings are a mixed up works-based religion taught by man using scripture out of context.

Everything in the kingdom of God comes by believing in the finished work of Christ for us.

As far as the Lord, Lord scripture goes..

Notice that in Matt 7:19-23..Jesus said "I never knew you "...these people were not believers.....

Jesus did not say " I knew you once " but that He "never knew " them at all. These are unbelievers.

Everyone when they see Jesus will call Him Lord.....because He is Lord to believers and unbelievers alike.

John 10:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.


Jesus did the "will of God"...and delivered us from this present evil world

Galatians 1:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

It is God in us that gives us the will and the ability to do His will.

Philippians 2:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

The Will of the Father is to believe on Jesus.

1 John 3:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

The good works we do are from "being in Christ"..being lead by the Holy Spirit. Notice God has prepared them for us. We walk them out as we life our lives dependent on Him.

Ephesians 2:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

[SUP]10 [/SUP] For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
The gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. With flames of fire God will take vengeance on those who do not obey the gospel of His Son. How do YOU obey the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ? I do what the bible says- I join Him in His death so that I can also join Him in His resurrection. (Water baptism) "Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ were baptized into His death? In order that just as He was raised by the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life."
 

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Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
#74
Yay! More effort on my part! "Declaring" added to the list of stuff I have to do.

So Jesus really is just a minor player in my own salvation?
Depleted,
Declaring just means that you're willing to admit that you believe in Jesus and that would include witnessing too.
So, there you go, also add witnessing.

Jesus did say:
Mark 8:38
"If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his Father's glory with the holy angels." NIV

And again:
Romans 1:16
"I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, first to the Jew, then to the Greek." NIV

We should be happy to proclaim, it should not be considered work.

And to confirm, yes, Jesus is who saves us, it is an action totally of God.

But let's not throw out what follows...

Fran
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
#75
THERE ARE PLENTY OF GRACE TOPICS ON THIS SITE. THIS IS NOT ONE OF THEM!!!
Wow, Depleted!

Are we not allowed to say what comes into mind?

You're a harsh taskmaster!!

Capisci??

Fran
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
#76
OOPS.
Too late to edit.

I did NOT mean by my post no. 74 that it is NECESSARY to witness in order to be saved.
One witnesses AFTER he is saved.
I did mean to say that it should be considered a joy. As is everything we do, or "work" for God.

Fran
 
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Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#77
My tongue has been firmly in my cheek throughout this, (long way to say, I'm kidding throughout most of this), but I really was thinking maybe you're considering all of God's gifts as compared to the one I'm talking about -- salvation.
Not to say you haven't been entirely sincere when talking of the gift of salvation 1 Tim 2:4, so yeah I see what your getting at now, you already faith seeing 1 Cor 12:8-9 indicates faith is a gift of the Spirit of God, I think James 2:19 says something to that effect. Yet maybe I am just seeking clarification on when those would receive the gift of faith are saved, by believing they are saved or when they receive the gift of faith since people are saved by their faith, and not by works, for it is a gift of God.
 
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Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#78
The gift of God is eternal life, the Holy Spirit, the gift of righteousness, the gift of God is Christ Jesus in us!

There are threads that talk about what James was talking about in regard to works and what Paul was talking about regarding grace. I encourage you to check them out. I have no interest in rehashing it all again.
Then if someone didn't consider 'faith' a gift then they could obtain their own salvation doing what the Word says is required for salvation, that be the work of 'faith'. For grace you are saved through faith, which isn't a gift of God apparently if one is saved by their own beliefs which they call faith.
 
G

ggs7

Guest
#79
Jesus said

John 11:26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#80
Jesus said

John 11:26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?
She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

John 11:27

Question is, do you believe her?