What does it mean to say salvation is not of yourself?

[notuptome]

I agree. So you don't believe that God withholds the ability to repent from anyone...right?

God did not withhold His only begotten Son for you why would God withhold repentance and salvation? That does not mean that everyone will be saved but all have opportunity to be saved. The choice is with each man thanks to the fall and the reception of the knowledge of good and evil.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[jdbear]

God did not withhold His only begotten Son for you why would God withhold repentance and salvation? That does not mean that everyone will be saved but all have opportunity to be saved. The choice is with each man thanks to the fall and the reception of the knowledge of good and evil.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Better change your screen name to itsuptome.

 

[cfultz3]

Your methodology reveals your religious persuasion.

Sorry, but DAHHHHHH

Are you unaware that, although Scripture is always true,

one's use of it may not be true, which is much too often your case?

Yes, as the one who denied 6 verses to uphold a theological believe.

There is nothing to harmonize here, for what you present does not disagree with what I have stated.

You do know that we are talking about those 6 verses from Scripture which you compared to a doctrine from Hell? 6 verses that you did not agree to because they did not fit what you wanted to hear. Yes, we do play a part in our salvation. Yes, we can lose salvation. Yes, we, and we alone, are help accountable for our own actions.

So, maybe you did not mean that those 6 verses are from hell, but that the Scriptures are inspired from the Holy Spirit?


Here is the whole post which you have concluded to be from hell:

"Save yourselves from this untoward generation." Acts 2:40; "in doing this thou shalt both save thyself" 1 Tim 4:16; "work out your own salvation" Phil 2:12; "Seeing ye have purified your souls" 1 Pet 1:22; "let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit" 2 Cor 7:1; "Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts" James 4:8


Man obviously has a role in his own salvation therefore can save himself by fulfilling the role God has given him.

If those verses say that we are to do such, then we are to do such. And when we find a verse which seems to contradict another, we are to harmonize so that ALL of Scripture is acceptable in one's belief.

 

[roaringkitten]

[h=2]What does it mean to say salvation is not of yourself?[/h]
It is the Work of God. That is salvation in a nutshell. To believe, is a work of God!

"Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." John 6:28-29

 

[tribesman]

Better change your screen name to itsuptome.

Sadly, I must agree.

 

[tribesman]

if man has no role in his own salvation then how does God determine who He will or will not save?

We cannot here on earth get an exact answer to the question "why some before others"...but we can rely on the fact that God is perfectly just and good and does everything according to His righteous purposes.

 

[jdbear]

Sadly, I must agree.

It's only sad if you put the cart before the horse.

If a man love me...we will make our abode with him. Jn.14:23

 

[jdbear]

We cannot here on earth get an exact answer to the question "why some before others"...but we can rely on the fact that God is perfectly just and good and does everything according to His righteous purposes.

Arbitrary salvation for no apparent reason? Pure evil and a slander of God.

 

[SeaBass]

So God owes you an explanation of how he makes his determination?

Well, your question is answered: the same way he determined to choose Jacob and not Esau;
i.e., by his sovereign choice, for his own purposes.

God owes me nothing but that does not mean God has not explained in His revealed word who will or will not be saved.

Jer 18:8,10 shows me the basis as to why God has mercy upon some and not others. Just because Calvinism/man made theologies leaves you in the dark on this issue does not leave me in the dark on this issue.

It's impossible for God to lie, Heb 6:18 so God's promise to save the obedient (Heb 5:9) and condemn those that obey not (2 Thess 1:8) are two promises we KNOW with CERTAINTY..

God's revealed word explains those that obey God are the ones that will be saved, Rom 6:16, the one's that work righteousness are the one's accepted with God, Act 10:35. People's man made faith only theology may blind them but does not blind me to this simple bible truth. Certain theologies as Calvinism has God playing the part of the blind man in the dark basement trying to separate black marbles from the white ones. Calvinism is left with a gaping black hole in its theology not being able to explain why some are saved and others are not, even though the bible clearly tells us why.


God's choice between Jacob and Esau had nothing to do with their personal salvation, but Paul was using Israel (Jacob) and Edom (Esau) to demonstrate to the Jews that God does not have to base His choices/promises upon physical descent. God had cast of the fleshly Jews (Rom 11) but the Jews thought God had to choose them simply based upon the fact of their being physical descendants of Abraham. Paul shows how Edom were just as much the true descendants of Abraham as were Israel but Edom was not chosen, therefore there was no reason for the Jews think God must choose them for simply being descendants of Abraham.

 

[SeaBass]

How did "Calvinism" get into Eph 2:8-9?

I was posting about Eph 1:4,5 and how it is twisted by some into saying God foreknew and predetermined certain select individuals to be saved unconditionally. When the context actually shows God foreknew certain traits that would belong to a foreknown group, Christian. So ANY man can choose to obey the gospel becoming a Christian thereby taking on these foreknown traits and being added to that foreknow, elect GROUP.

 

[dcontroversal]

You cannot save yourself, no matter what.

You have absolutely nothing to do with it, any more than you had anything to do with your natural birth.

His problem is the following...

He trusts in his own abilities and works and his COC unscriptural immersion...I.E. a watered down pseudo salvation based upon works of righteousness which he has done while failing to understand the perfect faith of Christ, the completed work of Christ and the complete salvation of the SPIRIT which does not sin, cannot sin and is eternally sealed in Christ by the prepayment of our salvation I.E. the Holy Spirit and the sealing which comes from genuine faith and not some pseudo faith which has no power to save whatsoever at all!

 

[SeaBass]

Yes, anyone who is living a life of disobedience, is not being saved (salvation present),
which means they were not saved (salvation past),
and will not be saved (salvation future).

Those who are saved obey.
Those who do not obey are not saved.

Because on is disobedient now (present tense) does not mean they were always disobedient no more than those that are obedient now (present tense) does not mean they were always obedient.

Many, many verses have the order of putting obedience BEFORE salvation. You have it just backwards by trying to get those that are in (present tense) state of disobedient, unrighteousness saved......"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?" 1 Cor 6:9


See my sign line below, 1 Jn 3:10 "...whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God.."

"doeth not" and "is" are both present tense. So as long as one presently does no righteousness/no obedience, then he presently is not of God. And one presently remains NOT OF GOD as long as he presently continues in unrighteousness/disobedience.

 

[SeaBass]

What name did I call you? I said it's stupid on MY part...and still is.

Umm...'us' is made up of individuals. If captain schmo picked me and eight others for his baseball starting line up, I would say 'he chose us', meaning each of us 9 individuals. He didn't pick the nameless nine member team and each one of us decided we would be on the team.

crossnote posted: "If you are going to be a heretical troll at least make some biblical sense...."

 

[SeaBass]

Which does not keep it from being a gift.


Random or not makes it no less a gift (Php 1:29; 2Pe 1:1; Acv 18:27; Ro 12:3).

You've actually said nothing.

And so it remains, faith is a gift.

Faith would be gift only in the sense that God has allowed men, that so choose, to have faith.

But faith is not a gift in the sense God alone determines who does or does not have faith.

It would be pointless, senseless for God to command men to have faith/believe if God alone determines who will or will not believe/have faith. The simple fact God has commanded it, that command implies that man has both the ability and responsibility to have faith/believe.

 

[SeaBass]

For as the body is one, and hath many members and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
For the body is not one member but many.
If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling. But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body as it has pleased him.

It seems Christ looks at the members of his body as individuals . . . .

Of course the group is made up of individuals but it was not the individuals God foreknew and pre-elected but the group. God did not predetermined what individuals would or would not be in the group.

 

[mailmandan]

What does it mean to say salvation is not of yourself, but is of God?

Amplified Bible: Ephesians 2:8 - For it is by free grace (God’s unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God; 9 Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law’s demands], lest any man should boast. [It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself.]

That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works is not hard to understand, it's just hard for many people to ACCEPT. It is tragic that human pride will not allow these many people to come to Christ. Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to take hold of Christ through faith.

 

[JesusIsAll]

That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works is not hard to understand, it's just hard for many people to ACCEPT. It is tragic that human pride will not allow these many people to come to Christ. Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to take hold of Christ through faith.

And it's just inexplicable, at least to me. What pride can one have who realizes the Creator of the universe? It really is a question, just to consider the love of our Lord Jesus,

Hebrews 2:6 But one in a certain place [Psalms 8, 111] testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?

What fool creature, hanging around a few decades, can believe they have anything to impress holy, holy, holy God from eternity? Can so denigrate the work and blood of Jesus Christ that they feel they must add to His work, that the Creator of the universe needs their help? That anybody else needs their help? They have something to offer the One who can divide asunder the soul and spirit of man, when some can't get through the day, without slandering people of faith who actually understand New Testament Christianity?

It's utter folly. And I have no idea where these people are coming from, as, and have mentioned this before, I've never been through the doors of a Protestant, Bible believing church in my entire life where this Hebrew roots, Jew-lite garbage is taught. Everybody knows this was resolved in the first century, but this cult stuff seems to be what half of the CC people are about.

 

[royalscot]

The whosoever wills. John 3:16

God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

most of the thing you say and quote, i agree with you brother'
repentence, means there must be a law that was broken or there in the first place.

jesus was sent to those under law, the old covenant.

pentecost the start of a new covenent, all were jewish at pentecost. (jesus being back in heaven, the start of new covenant)



28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,30 since God is one---who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.

acts 10, cornelious believed in jesus to get the holy spirit.(not repent)
The Holy Spirit Falls on the Gentiles
44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles
act 15 asks what law.


16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. etc

29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
grace a gift.

believing in jesus christ , ie the stone the builder rejected ,turn out to be the most important one of all.

 

[SeaBass]

Doctrine from hell.

"Save yourselves from this untoward generation." Acts 2:40; "in doing this thou shalt both save thyself" 1 Tim 4:16; "work out your own salvation" Phil 2:12; "Seeing ye have purified your souls" 1 Pet 1:22; "let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit" 2 Cor 7:1; "Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts" James 4:8

Straight from the bible.

 

[SeaBass]

Except for it contradicting Ro 8:7-8.

Jn 6:45 does not contradict Rom 8. It is the Calvinists that contradict themselves all over the place.