What happens when Believers don't obey the Gospel
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K
disciples of a ritual or disciples of Christ ?
Disciples of Jesus Christ, which we all are to be.
Which means we follow and obey His commands. We do not cast them away and say they are not needed.
If He commands something, then they are required. One can not say they are saved by their faith if they refuse to repent of their sins.
This is the dead faith that does not save that James speaks of when He says faith without works is dead.
There are many denominations or branches of these churches that are teaching repentance of sins, baptism, and confession are not needed. In other words they are teaching to defy our Lord Jesus teachings.
To many people want to put the cart before the horse. They say one is saved by their faith, and then repentance, baptism, and confession follow. Lord Jesus clearly makes a point that you are not saved before you do these things.
Repent or perish, confess Him or He will deny you, and baptized for a clean conscious.
Repentance and baptism is for cleaning your inner self, so that sin can no longer reign and control your thoughts, feelings, and actions. Confession is an out word expression of your faith in the Lord by your words and actions, and not hiding your faith.
Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate
Romans 10:10
For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
Romans 2:6-10
Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
anyway, on the topic of the OP, if you have believed and put your trust in Him, you have received the Holy Spirit by the measure God has chosen to give to you.
if you remain disobedient, you grieve the Spirit, and endanger yourself of attributing the work of the Spirit to the devil, for which you become in peril of becoming a branch broken off and cast into the fire.
if you remain disobedient, you grieve the Spirit, and endanger yourself of attributing the work of the Spirit to the devil, for which you become in peril of becoming a branch broken off and cast into the fire.
that does not say the spirit makes you obedient bro ...the spirit sanctify/set us apart to be obedient to Christ......same chapter ...[SUP]22 [/SUP]Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently
we obey through the Spirit.....the Spirit does not make us obey
we obey through the Spirit.....the Spirit does not make us obey
sometimes I assume people would have an idea of the scripture.....as in this case led by the spirit indicate a choice....[SUP]13 [/SUP]For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. this is the verse that comes before .......showing you are the one who makes the choice.....do you see the spirit making anyone obedient???
yeah i'm seeing a lot of my brothers and sisters teaching you and leading you but none of them seem to be making you understand. 'you can lead a horse to water' as they say.
we were all formerly disobedient.
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
(2 Corinthians 3:18)
whoah - says here we are changed "by the Spirit of the Lord" !!!
"new-birth" were you born anew or not?
did you crawl back up into your mothers womb all by yourself or did you receive a new life by the hand of God? was that the work of flesh or the work of Spirit?
how did you end up with an obedient spirit?
did you build that all by yourself? got no reason to thank God at all for the renewing of your mind and the regeneration of your heart? all by the hand of newbirth?
O
a very beautiful verse to post, Posthuman
after our amazing conversion, the Lord led us to go to the ocean and be baptized.
I must confess, it was second only to the first Holiness that He bestowed upon us,
we felt it was a precious gift of Love which we remain so thankful for, and yes,
our obedience was very necessary for us in that it taught us yet one more proof
of His great Love.
for us, it proved our great love for Him truly was, in leaving our 'old-man' behind us,
as an act of pure Love and our great willingness to be His brand new adoring servants.
the scriptures concerning this act of love that we felt compelled to observe had definitely
spoken to our Spirits and hearts mutually, thus yet one more proof of our unity for our
love of our Heavenly Father.
the memory of that day will forever bind us and remind us of the precious love that He has
bestowed upon us and continually bestows upon us moment by moment.
after our amazing conversion, the Lord led us to go to the ocean and be baptized.
I must confess, it was second only to the first Holiness that He bestowed upon us,
we felt it was a precious gift of Love which we remain so thankful for, and yes,
our obedience was very necessary for us in that it taught us yet one more proof
of His great Love.
for us, it proved our great love for Him truly was, in leaving our 'old-man' behind us,
as an act of pure Love and our great willingness to be His brand new adoring servants.
the scriptures concerning this act of love that we felt compelled to observe had definitely
spoken to our Spirits and hearts mutually, thus yet one more proof of our unity for our
love of our Heavenly Father.
the memory of that day will forever bind us and remind us of the precious love that He has
bestowed upon us and continually bestows upon us moment by moment.
K
How is my reasoning flawed.
I gave you the Greek word, and how it is translated to English and its meaning.
Baptizo- immersion in water
Plus if you look at Acts 11 it does not say that the gentiles that were listening were baptized with the Holy Spirit by the Apostles. It says that Peter when he began to speak noticed the Holy Spirit had came down to the gentiles also. The Lord our God had the Holy Spirit come down on the gentiles. This has nothing to do with the baptism commanded to the Apostles in Matthew 28 and Mark 16 by Jesus to make disciples of others in all the nations.
I gave you the Greek word, and how it is translated to English and its meaning.
Baptizo- immersion in water
Plus if you look at Acts 11 it does not say that the gentiles that were listening were baptized with the Holy Spirit by the Apostles. It says that Peter when he began to speak noticed the Holy Spirit had came down to the gentiles also. The Lord our God had the Holy Spirit come down on the gentiles. This has nothing to do with the baptism commanded to the Apostles in Matthew 28 and Mark 16 by Jesus to make disciples of others in all the nations.
E
It is simple.
Person A claimed he had faith. James asked a normal question, Can his "claimed" faith save him?
You seem to wish to ignore the word "claimed" Or "says he has" which is the context of James argument.
I do what Christ says also.
The difference between us is I do it by the power of the spirit. You do it to get saved. Without the power of the spirit. because you claim the spirit is not given until after you do it.
Your not serving God, your serving self. Your trying to benefit yourself by serving, Hoping God will give you his gift. The pharisees tried this, It will not get you any further than it got them.
You highlighted the wrong part of the passage.
The part of not having your own righteousness. But the righteousness which proceeds from the power of faith. And the power of God
E
1st off. There is no defenition of the word baptize into english, it is a transliteration not a translation.
2nd off. In no greek lexicon outside of biblical lexicons will you see the translation as immersed in water, the interpretation means to immerse or plunge, or to become overwhelmed with. You can be immersed in water, immersed in blood, immersed in a dyeing solution (which in most greek texts is the way it was used)
as for acts 11. They were baptized BY the HS. WHat part of that do you not get?
1. John the baptised said Jesus would baptise with the HS
2. Jesus said we will be baptized by the HS
3. Peter acknowledged that they were baptised with the HS as they were.
Your stuck on a faulty defenition of a greek word that was not even translated in your english bible. which most of not all ancient greek texts outside of the greek bible does not even use. If at all.
2nd off. In no greek lexicon outside of biblical lexicons will you see the translation as immersed in water, the interpretation means to immerse or plunge, or to become overwhelmed with. You can be immersed in water, immersed in blood, immersed in a dyeing solution (which in most greek texts is the way it was used)
as for acts 11. They were baptized BY the HS. WHat part of that do you not get?
1. John the baptised said Jesus would baptise with the HS
2. Jesus said we will be baptized by the HS
3. Peter acknowledged that they were baptised with the HS as they were.
Your stuck on a faulty defenition of a greek word that was not even translated in your english bible. which most of not all ancient greek texts outside of the greek bible does not even use. If at all.