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I did not read others posts on this, so someone may have already covered this. Yes, Israel is the elect of YHVH as Torah and Tanak both say, BUT Yeshua also says in John 10:16 " And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring and they will hear My voice; and there will be ONE flock and ONE Shepherd."
This tells us that Yeshua is reminding us of the first statement of elect, but also those who He will save and add into the flock of the elect. But don't misunderstand that those who are of the first election still have to receive Yeshua as Messiah or they face the same eternal fate as anyone else who denies Yeshua. Shalom
This tells us that Yeshua is reminding us of the first statement of elect, but also those who He will save and add into the flock of the elect. But don't misunderstand that those who are of the first election still have to receive Yeshua as Messiah or they face the same eternal fate as anyone else who denies Yeshua. Shalom
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Yea I agree we must accept Christ as the promised Messiah, and in accepting Him means we obey Him in all things, otherwise we are still rejecting Him.
1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
1Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
1Th 1:4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
Our election is sure when we believe and obey God.
1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
1Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
1Th 1:4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
Our election is sure when we believe and obey God.
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Have you obeyed Christs commands since birth? If you have, your saved by your own merit and do not need Christ.
If not. You have a death penalty out for every sin you have ever committed. Now can you explain how we could ever be good enough fo have all these "death penalty's" which are against us, be forgiven?
Why do you place yourself under law? If we could get saved by the law. we do not need Christ now do we?
I think it is prety prideful to think even after one comes to Christ, they would ever be good enough to earn salvation. and not the just condemnation they (and we all) deserve)
If not. You have a death penalty out for every sin you have ever committed. Now can you explain how we could ever be good enough fo have all these "death penalty's" which are against us, be forgiven?
Why do you place yourself under law? If we could get saved by the law. we do not need Christ now do we?
I think it is prety prideful to think even after one comes to Christ, they would ever be good enough to earn salvation. and not the just condemnation they (and we all) deserve)
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So if they were trying to work their way to heaven and were rejected, there faith did not save them.
This means there WORKS prevented them from entering heaven?
If there salvation was taken away due to their pride and works, how is salvation not based on works??
Please explain, because this seems inconsistent with "faith only" because they had faith, otherwise they would not have done any kinds of works.[/quote]
lol. Nice try.
Do you not understand what the words "I NEVER KNEW YOU" Means?
How could God say he never knew someone if they were at one time saved, then lost their salvation? He would be a liar. Can God lie?
The pharisees did many works of the law. Did their faith save them? Or was their faith in their works to save them.
People who try to work to gain salvation place their faith in their works. Not in Christ. Thus they never had true "faith in Christ" thus were never saved. Thus the reason God NEVER KNEW THEM.
This means there WORKS prevented them from entering heaven?
If there salvation was taken away due to their pride and works, how is salvation not based on works??
Please explain, because this seems inconsistent with "faith only" because they had faith, otherwise they would not have done any kinds of works.[/quote]
lol. Nice try.
Do you not understand what the words "I NEVER KNEW YOU" Means?
How could God say he never knew someone if they were at one time saved, then lost their salvation? He would be a liar. Can God lie?
The pharisees did many works of the law. Did their faith save them? Or was their faith in their works to save them.
People who try to work to gain salvation place their faith in their works. Not in Christ. Thus they never had true "faith in Christ" thus were never saved. Thus the reason God NEVER KNEW THEM.
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Forget what?
That paul said repent (3rd person PLURAL) to everyone. And only told a few to be "baptized (2nd person singular) and people like you twist it by saying Peter is telling everyone both repent and be baptized to be saved?
You should try to forget your view. But then again it is obvious you think you are working to earn grace. So I can se why you would rather take a flawed englsih interpretation over an actual greek interpretation.
That paul said repent (3rd person PLURAL) to everyone. And only told a few to be "baptized (2nd person singular) and people like you twist it by saying Peter is telling everyone both repent and be baptized to be saved?
You should try to forget your view. But then again it is obvious you think you are working to earn grace. So I can se why you would rather take a flawed englsih interpretation over an actual greek interpretation.
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nope Rom 3:23 "all have sinned" that means everyone except Christ of course.
No I can not, because this is what you call a straw man argument, in which people usally employ when they cant answer the real questions at hand.
I cant explain that because I never said "we must be good enough to have all these death penalty which are against us to be forgiven"
We can be a very "good person", but if we do not obey the commands of God we are not saved.
Now it is God that is good enough to us, that he sent His son to die on the cross to shed His blood so that we can be forgiven.
Only if we carry out what we must do in order to receive this FREE Gift.
If I told you I was giving you a gift, a car, all you had to do is come get it, would you saty, "no, if I have to come get that would be work, and you said it was a gift, so you do the hard part and bring it to me" that's exactly what your saying about grace.
No your wrong, if we place ourselves "under THE law" (the Law of Moses) we cannot be saved, we are under a Law - James 1:25 "the perfect law of liberty"
Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
Again you need to study, meritorious works, works under the Law of Moses, and works of obedience, until you can distinguish the meaning between these, you will remain inconsistent in your beliefs and teachings.
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Ok so then we should continue in sin that grace may abound????
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lol are you serious? I proved to you your interpretation of Acts 2:38 is dead wrong and you know it. Thats why you ran away from the conversation. "each of you" collective noun - remember?
Oh that's right, you dont believe scholars, lexicons, or translations when it is not fitting for you.
I dont believe anyone can earn salvation, but I do believe that we MUST obey God in order to obtain it, that is what the Bible says, of course that's NOT fitting for you either.
Oh that's right, you dont believe scholars, lexicons, or translations when it is not fitting for you.
I dont believe anyone can earn salvation, but I do believe that we MUST obey God in order to obtain it, that is what the Bible says, of course that's NOT fitting for you either.
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Eternally Grateful, I have some questions concerning this portion of scripture:
Luk 12:43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Luk 12:44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
Luk 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes
1. Why did this servants faith not save him? He believed he has a Lord "my Lord delayeth His coming"
2. vs 45 - Why did this believing servant's evil works render his Lord's punishment?
3. Why was his portion with he unbelievers????? (Matthews account says "with the hypocrites" you might want to think about that one for a while)
4. What does "according to HIs will" mean?
5. What makes you different from this servant in which you can still be forgiven with belief alone?
I answer all your questions, Can you answer these or not?
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there is only one standard which would make us "good enough" and that is the law. Thus we can be good in other peoples eyes. But we will never be good enough in Gods eyes. Unless of course you are perfect according to the law.
It was not a strawman. The penalty of sin is death. not anything else. your trying to twist it.
I don't have to go get the car. God came to me to give it to me, based on his son. Jesus said it is the work of God we believe in him. It also says we are saved by faith. if we are trying to be sqved by faith, and perfect our salvation by works. then we are rejecting grace, and as paul said, we are fools.
No, You need to study the word grace. Or unmerited favor. If grace could ever be eaqrned by any work whatever, it stops being grace.
Paul makes it clear Abraham was not saved by works (obedience) he was saved because he had faith. Abraham did the work, because he had faith. His faith was proven by his works.
Paul said we are saved by faith not works (eph 2: 8-9. He did nt mention works of the law here. He meant any work. And he made it clear. Those saved by faith will do the work God crerated him to do. Paul did not teach a licentious gospel. Niether am I
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If the servant had TRUE faith. and not just mere belief (even the demons believe yet trempble) he never would have done what he did. But continued to look for his masters return. It takes true faith to save. Mere belief will not save you.
Because, He did not have faith. Thus he suffered punishment for his evil deads. As will all people who do not have faith. even if they believe in Jesus Many believe, but they tru to work to earn Gods grace, or on the flip side. Say I can live my life however I want, and continue to live in sin. Both will be lost at the last day.
Because he never had faith. Thus he was just like them. He was a fake. there are many fake christians who come in and claim to be a servant. but when things get tough, as scripture says, a dog returns to his vomit. A dog is always a dog. Proving he was never made a child of God.
means it is Gods way, not our way
[/quote]5. What makes you different from this servant in which you can still be forgiven with belief alone?[/quote]
I don;t have a licentious belief. I have true faith. Which is why I strive to do all the work God asks me to do. Including having a changed life.
Again, As james said. Even demons believe yet tremble.
The problem with you is you think I am licentious. Yet you are legalistic. I am neither. My faith is in Christ. A Licentious person has no faith. And your faiht is in your good deeds or works, including baptism.
That is what separates us.
Oh ye of little faith!
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Actually I left chat for a week or more because I was gone and had no access to a computor. I guess people gave up arguing or putting up with you because the thread was long gone by the time I returned.
If you would like to start another thread, feel free.
ps. you did not prove anything. All you did was state your belief.
Again, try studying greek. You might learn something
no matter what. Your trying to replace the work of God with the work of men. This is dangerous. Jesus called it blasphemy. Think on this!
If you would like to start another thread, feel free.
ps. you did not prove anything. All you did was state your belief.
Again, try studying greek. You might learn something
no matter what. Your trying to replace the work of God with the work of men. This is dangerous. Jesus called it blasphemy. Think on this!
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I don;t have a licentious belief. I have true faith. Which is why I strive to do all the work God asks me to do. Including having a changed life.
Again, As james said. Even demons believe yet tremble.
That is what separates us.[/quote]How can my faith be in good deeds if without God they are nothing?
If it is works that render our faith true or fake, then it is by works we are saved. if I am a child of God and strive to do good works then I am in good standing with God, but if Choose not to do any works, or evil works then my faith is fake? Sounds to me like the major key to salvation is what kind of works you do according to what your saying?
How was Abraham's faith seen? In him doing nothing?
If Abrham decided to stay in his land, distrust God that he could have a son, and not offer Isaac, would he still have had faith?
Again, As james said. Even demons believe yet tremble.
That is what separates us.[/quote]How can my faith be in good deeds if without God they are nothing?
If it is works that render our faith true or fake, then it is by works we are saved. if I am a child of God and strive to do good works then I am in good standing with God, but if Choose not to do any works, or evil works then my faith is fake? Sounds to me like the major key to salvation is what kind of works you do according to what your saying?
How was Abraham's faith seen? In him doing nothing?
If Abrham decided to stay in his land, distrust God that he could have a son, and not offer Isaac, would he still have had faith?
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If you obey God's commandments in order to receive eternal life, that is a work (salvation by works). We are all born into this world as natural beings without any righteousness. 1 Cor 2:14, The natural man will not seek to serve a spiritual God because he cannot descern spiritual things, they are foolishness unto him. The only way the natural man can become spiritual is for God to quicken him by the Holy Spirit. God does this when the natural man is still dead (spiritually) in sins, Eph 2:1-5.
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5. What makes you different from this servant in which you can still be forgiven with belief alone?[/quote]
I don;t have a licentious belief. I have true faith. Which is why I strive to do all the work God asks me to do. Including having a changed life.
Again, As james said. Even demons believe yet tremble.
The problem with you is you think I am licentious. Yet you are legalistic. I am neither. My faith is in Christ. A Licentious person has no faith. And your faiht is in your good deeds or works, including baptism.
That is what separates us.
Oh ye of little faith![/quote]We do not have access to spiritual faith until God quickens us. We are born again before we have spiritual faith. faith is a fruit of the Spirit, Gal 5. Our faith is not the cause of us being eternally saved. Gal 2:16 says it is Christ's faith that justifies us. Our faith can bring about many salvations (deliverances) here in this world but it does not save us eternally.
I don;t have a licentious belief. I have true faith. Which is why I strive to do all the work God asks me to do. Including having a changed life.
Again, As james said. Even demons believe yet tremble.
The problem with you is you think I am licentious. Yet you are legalistic. I am neither. My faith is in Christ. A Licentious person has no faith. And your faiht is in your good deeds or works, including baptism.
That is what separates us.
Oh ye of little faith![/quote]We do not have access to spiritual faith until God quickens us. We are born again before we have spiritual faith. faith is a fruit of the Spirit, Gal 5. Our faith is not the cause of us being eternally saved. Gal 2:16 says it is Christ's faith that justifies us. Our faith can bring about many salvations (deliverances) here in this world but it does not save us eternally.
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if what your saying is true, then what is the point of this verse?
Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him
Why say "he is the author of eternal salvation unto all that obey". wouldnt this lead people to believe in a "works salvation"?
What your saying is false, or else this passage is false, which do you think I am going with?
Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him
Why say "he is the author of eternal salvation unto all that obey". wouldnt this lead people to believe in a "works salvation"?
What your saying is false, or else this passage is false, which do you think I am going with?