WHOSE WORK IS GREATER? THE FIRST ADAM'S OR THE SECOND ADAM'S?

[Stephen63]

pls would you carefully analyze these statements that you made?"By the way the reason you have an inheritance with CHRIST..... IN CHRIST Is because through faith in HIM you were transferred out of the kingdom of darkness INTO the the KINGDOM of LIGHT"

Are you in any way saying here that the day i confessed Christ( had faith in him) was the day i was translated from darkness into the kingdom of light? if this is so, then FAITH becomes my savior here.; it is thus my faith in Him that saved me and not Christ Himself.
whether you believe this or not; prior to my Faith in Him, Christ had already saved me at the cross 2000 yrs ago. i can't understand how you don't see it! I repeat, it is not faith in Christ that produces the work of the cross! Faith in Christ produces the EFFECT of a work done 2000 yrs ago. i rest my case here!!!

Congratulations..... I've heard a LOT of junk..... garbage in this forum, & you've managed in a short time to become a heavyweight doing exactly that. What surprises me is how the hearers swallow this stuff without a second thought.

These statements sound like you make them up on the fly.

Yes, Jesus died for the sins of the world. But NOTHING happens to us until The Holy Spirit draws us to a place of true REPENTANCE & witnesses to us that Jesus is the Son of God. When we repent & accept Christ, then we are born again, saved. But not till then.

Accusing faith of being the savior is low even for you.

 

[Stephen63]

pls i never said all will be saved. there is a universal and a particular aspect of the gospel. Christ died for all and as all( universal) but each person must accept the gift of grace personally( particular). The sad thing here is that the church has reduced the universal aspect of the work of Christ to the particular aspect only; making it looks as if salvation depends on one's believing!

The church hasn't done anything of the sort. And salvation DOES depend on one's believing
Romans 3:28 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Hebrews 11:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
[HR][/HR]Romans 3:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
[HR][/HR]Romans 3:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
[HR][/HR]Romans 5:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
[HR][/HR]Romans 5:2 (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
[HR][/HR]2 Corinthians 1:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.
[HR][/HR]2 Corinthians 5:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP](For we walk by faith, not by sight)
[HR][/HR]Galatians 3:11 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
[HR][/HR]Galatians 3:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[HR][/HR]Galatians 3:26 (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
[HR][/HR]Galatians 5:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
[HR][/HR]Ephesians 3:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
[HR][/HR]Philippians 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
[HR][/HR]Hebrews 10:38 (KJV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

What do you hope to accomplish by spreading random disinformation?

 

[miknik5]

Two kinds of baptisms. The baptism of the Spirit of Christ, the anointing Holy Spirit of God as that comes from the hearing of the faith of God according to the great commission to go out into the world in a hope of making disciples of Christ, who believe the gospel of Christ. . And the baptism of a believer useing water as a symbol indicating his personal desire to be member of the kingdom of priest sent out into the world to make disciples of men.

It is why Jesus from the tribe of Judah needed John from the tribe of Levi to perform that cerimoinal law that could never make the conscience perfect.Preparing Christ, as a priest so that then he could baptize his disciples so that they could go out in to the world as a kingdom of priests .

Please. I'm not discussing water baptism

 

[Gr8grace]

And salvation DOES depend on one's believing

Accusing faith of being the savior is low even for you.

You do believe we can lose salvation right? What do we have to lose to lose salvation?

Faith? Then faith is your savior.

 

[Stephen63]

You do believe we can lose salvation right? What do we have to lose to lose salvation?

Faith? Then faith is your savior.

Blah, blah, blah.....I didn't expect anything less..... you've been her backup from the get-go. You can get all the HG'ers to say the same thing, & it won't change the truth.

 

[Gr8grace]

Blah, blah, blah.....I didn't expect anything less..... you've been her backup from the get-go. You can get all the HG'ers to say the same thing, & it won't change the truth.

No, read through. She is saying we are born-again at reconciliation. I don't believe that.

But your in a conundrum. If salvation can be lost and it is loss of faith that causes loss of salvation.........your faith is your savior. No ifs,ands or buts about it.

Originally Posted by Stephen63

Accusing faith of being the savior is low even for you.

Originally Posted by Stephen63

Accusing faith of being the savior is low even for you.

 

[miknik5]

HOW DID CHRIST SAVED YOU? BY DYING ON THE CROSS RIGHT? NOW YOU ARE SAYING THAT THE DAY YOU ACCEPTED CHRIST AS YOUR LORD AND SAVIOR, WAS THE DAY YOU WERE SAVED? COME ON BRETHREN!! IF WHAT YOU CLAIM IS TRUE? WHAT DOES THE GOOD NEWS THAT WE ARE TO PREACH TO EVERY ONE CONSTITUTES THEN?

THE GOSPEL IS THE ANNUNCIATION OF WHAT HAD ALREADY HAPPENED IN CHRIST 2000 YRS AGO. WHEN ANYONE THAT HEARS AND ACCEPT THIS GOOD NEWS, HE IS THEN SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE( Eph1:13). THAT IS CALLED CONVERSION. AND WE all KNOW THAT NOT ALL WILL ACCEPT THIS SALVATION

Do you want to know who preached the Gospel to me? Do you want to know how I heard THE GOOD NEWS and believed?
and please stop this confusion. Yes the day I heard the GOSPEL of my salvation IN CHRIST JESUS was the day I was baptized IN CHRIST JESUS' death and risen again with a NEW HEART and a NEW SPIRIT

By the way if what you INITIALLY claimed were true than there would be no need to preach THE GOSPEL.
But now you are stating that the GOSPEL must be preached

And it must be
Because not all men believe

Thetefote though His death on the cross was for all men, not all men believe THE GOOD NEWS that HIS death and resurrection bought back for mankind LIFE

Because not all men have THE SON

 

[miknik5]

Please expound Ephesians 1:13
tell me where are those who do NOT believe and where are those who do believe ?

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

pls i never said all will be saved. there is a universal and a particular aspect of the gospel. Christ died for all and as all( universal) but each person must accept the gift of grace personally( particular). The sad thing here is that the church has reduced the universal aspect of the work of Christ to the particular aspect only; making it looks as if salvation depends on one's believing!

Please explain this highlighted statement. Also see Matthew 25 - The Parable of the Ten Virgins.

 

[friendinpeace]

Adams fall wasn't accidental; it was in Gods plan

Oh yeah, so angry everything was going as planned

 

[Stephen63]

No, read through. She is saying we are born-again at reconciliation. I don't believe that.

But your in a conundrum. If salvation can be lost and it is loss of faith that causes loss of salvation.........your faith is your savior. No ifs,ands or buts about it.

Note to the readers: Whenever you read such a statement as this one, remember he's stating the opposite of true salvation, "the just shall live by faith".

That's what you do when promoting a cult.

 

[Grace777x70]

Originally Posted by Gr8grace

No, read through. She is saying we are born-again at reconciliation. I don't believe that.

But your in a conundrum. If salvation can be lost and it is loss of faith that causes loss of salvation.........your faith is your savior. No ifs,ands or buts about it.

Note to the readers: Whenever you read such a statement as this one, remember he's stating the opposite of true salvation, "the just shall live by faith".

That's what you do when promoting a cult.

Nonsense .....everyone is in a cult to you if you don't understand what they are saying or if it conflicts with your religious beliefs.

You are obviously not understanding what he is trying to tell you. He is trying to get across to you that it is the faith of Christ that actually saves us and what Christ has already done.

It is the work of Christ that has saved us. - Not "our" faith itself. The faith which is supplied by the hearing of Christ is what brings the experience of the truth of Christ's redemptive work on our behalf.

It's the truth of what Christ has already done that brings salvation to us because when we hear about Him - it brings faith to believe that Christ's completed work is true. It was true before you believed it. That is what he is trying to get across to you.

Galatians 2:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you w ere sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,


Doesn't it excite you to know that we are sealed forever with the Holy Spirit because of Christ's work, love and grace towards us?

Doesn't this truth make you fall in love with the Lord more and to get to know Him better - to understand such love and grace towards us?

 

[heavenly_bound]

pls i never said all will be saved. there is a universal and a particular aspect of the gospel. Christ died for all and as all( universal) but each person must accept the gift of grace personally( particular). The sad thing here is that the church has reduced the universal aspect of the work of Christ to the particular aspect only; making it looks as if salvation depends on one's believing!

"" some of them where undoubtedly faithless, but what then? Can you imagine that their faithlessness could disturb the faithfulness of God? of course not( Rom 3:3)""

 

[miknik5]

Originally Posted by Gr8grace

No, read through. She is saying we are born-again at reconciliation. I don't believe that.

But your in a conundrum. If salvation can be lost and it is loss of faith that causes loss of salvation.........your faith is your savior. No ifs,ands or buts about it.




Nonsense .....everyone is in a cult to you if you don't understand what they are saying or if it conflicts with your religious beliefs.

You are obviously not understanding what he is trying to tell you. He is trying to get across to you that it is the faith of Christ that actually saves us and what Christ has already done.

It is the work of Christ that has saved us. - Not "our" faith itself. The faith which is supplied by the hearing of Christ is what brings the experience of the truth of Christ's redemptive work on our behalf.

It's the truth of what Christ has already done that brings salvation to us because when we hear about Him - it brings faith to believe that Christ's completed work is true. It was true before you believed it. That is what he is trying to get across to you.

Galatians 2:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you w ere sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,


Doesn't it excite you to know that we are sealed forever with the Holy Spirit because of Christ's work, love and grace towards us?

Doesn't this truth make you fall in love with the Lord more and to get to know Him better - to understand such love and grace towards us?

How was one sealed? When they heard THE GOSPEL? Or when they heard THE GOSPEL AND BELIEVED?

And who, by the way, opens the eyes of a man to THE TRUTH of THE GOSPEL?

 

[miknik5]

Christ died for all men

But not all men believe

are these saved?

Do these have a part in The first resurrection?
have these passed from death to LIFE
Because we also believe that ONE DIED therefore ALL were dead

So are all alive are all sealed?

no

 

[Grace777x70]

How was one sealed? When they heard THE GOSPEL? Or when they heard THE GOSPEL AND BELIEVED?

And who, by the way, opens the eyes of a man to THE TRUTH of THE GOSPEL?

I would say they were sealed when they believed - which is after they heard but it was a done deal before that happened on God's part in Christ. It is only the Holy Spirit that reveals Christ to us.

In God's mind all the world is already reconciled on His part - we must respond on our part to experience this new life.

There are 2 parts but God has already done His and now he implores us to receive that truth.

Romans 5:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

2 Corinthians 5:18-20 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,

[SUP]19 [/SUP] namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

[SUP]20 [/SUP] Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

 

[heavenly_bound]

I am glad that there is a fight going on in you right now. That is what happens when grace(truth) come face to face with religion; but don't worry grace always wins! that is how confused i was also when i came face to face with the extravagance grace!! everything in me went wild; All i knew about the person and work of Christ was now being challenged, by the unconditional grace! i reacted just the same way you do now; if not worse if i could remember!

 

[miknik5]

What's our part but to believe this TRUTH.

But not all do
so what is preached?
that you are reconciled to GOD or be reconciled to GOD

and if it is be reconciled to GOD who already did HIS part what must a man do?

believe and have the faith in Jesus or believe and have the faith of JESUS

 

[Stephen63]

Originally Posted by Gr8grace

No, read through. She is saying we are born-again at reconciliation. I don't believe that.

But your in a conundrum. If salvation can be lost and it is loss of faith that causes loss of salvation.........your faith is your savior. No ifs,ands or buts about it.




Nonsense .....everyone is in a cult to you if you don't understand what they are saying or if it conflicts with your religious beliefs.

You are obviously not understanding what he is trying to tell you. He is trying to get across to you that it is the faith of Christ that actually saves us and what Christ has already done.

It is the work of Christ that has saved us. - Not "our" faith itself. The faith which is supplied by the hearing of Christ is what brings the experience of the truth of Christ's redemptive work on our behalf.

It's the truth of what Christ has already done that brings salvation to us because when we hear about Him - it brings faith to believe that Christ's completed work is true. It was true before you believed it. That is what he is trying to get across to you.

Galatians 2:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you w ere sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,


Doesn't it excite you to know that we are sealed forever with the Holy Spirit because of Christ's work, love and grace towards us?

Doesn't this truth make you fall in love with the Lord more and to get to know Him better - to understand such love and grace towards us?

The work of Christ is forever done. But..... I must repent of sin & believe in Christ to be "born again", saved. There's no change until then.
New Living Translation
For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved.
New American Standard Bible
for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Gee, it's right there on the internet, where you get all your other stuff. Why not read the scriptures instead of somebody's web page?

 

[John146]

The work of Christ is forever done. But..... I must repent of sin & believe in Christ to be "born again", saved. There's no change until then.
New Living Translation
For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved.
New American Standard Bible
for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Gee, it's right there on the internet, where you get all your other stuff. Why not read the scriptures instead of somebody's web page?

You posted from the NLT and the NASB. Which one are you calling Scriptures? Can't be both. Only one or none can be called Scripture.