Why does God allow false Christians in our mist?
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D
idk! (shocker 
) wolves in sheep's clothing, yes, sure.
but the Bible never calls Christians 'goats' not even before they come to Christ.
calls 'em lost sheep.
) wolves in sheep's clothing, yes, sure.but the Bible never calls Christians 'goats' not even before they come to Christ.
calls 'em lost sheep.
I watched a Christian movie a month ago. The premise seemed to think either you're a sheep or a wolf. I have family that aren't sheep. But they're not attacking me like a wolf. So, they're goats. (And it took me this long to figure out exactly what I didn't like about that movie. lol)
Earlier in this thread someone wrote, "The elect in Christ cannot be deceived." I earnestly disagree with this statement. It is my assertion that all humans are profoundly deceived and are absolutely unable to come to the knowledge of the truth (of life) on their own. Once one submits to the absolute truth of Yeshua Messiah dieing in our place and being raised again three days later, one has the opportunity to start growing in the truth of life.
However, it is not possible to not be deceived in some areas of our lives. That is, everyone is deceived to a greater or lessor extent no matter how strongly we believe in our doctrine and theology.
Through Christ we have the opportunity to grow in the (His) truth, but it is still up to us whether or not we choose to do so. Thus, in our churches we have people in every stage of growth or non-growth in God's truth.
Heb 11:6 says faith is believing God is worth seeking and then seeking Him. Since God is truth, we demonstrate our faith in Him by seeking Him in truth, and seeking the truth about Him and ourselves.
By our very nature, we can only seek the truth about ourselves when we do so in Jesus' name and with the help of the Holy Spirit. Until we can face the truth about ourselves and our relationship with God, we live in self deception. (This is different from having a complicated doctrine or being passionate about our theology or knowing more about the Bible that most other folk.)
The reason there are so many deceived people in our churches is that we are all deceived to some extent, and one only overcomes that human nature by loving God (and His truth - as expressed through the death burial and resurrection of His one and only human born Son) more than we love anything else in our life.
Most of us (not the least of which is myself) approach this only half-heartedly. Thus, deception continues in our churches.
I would like to add that it is not necessarily God that allows deception in our churches, but we ourselves, because we don't love the truth enough make it the highest priority in our lives.
2 Thess 2:10b-11
10. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
11. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie
However, it is not possible to not be deceived in some areas of our lives. That is, everyone is deceived to a greater or lessor extent no matter how strongly we believe in our doctrine and theology.
Through Christ we have the opportunity to grow in the (His) truth, but it is still up to us whether or not we choose to do so. Thus, in our churches we have people in every stage of growth or non-growth in God's truth.
Heb 11:6 says faith is believing God is worth seeking and then seeking Him. Since God is truth, we demonstrate our faith in Him by seeking Him in truth, and seeking the truth about Him and ourselves.
By our very nature, we can only seek the truth about ourselves when we do so in Jesus' name and with the help of the Holy Spirit. Until we can face the truth about ourselves and our relationship with God, we live in self deception. (This is different from having a complicated doctrine or being passionate about our theology or knowing more about the Bible that most other folk.)
The reason there are so many deceived people in our churches is that we are all deceived to some extent, and one only overcomes that human nature by loving God (and His truth - as expressed through the death burial and resurrection of His one and only human born Son) more than we love anything else in our life.
Most of us (not the least of which is myself) approach this only half-heartedly. Thus, deception continues in our churches.
I would like to add that it is not necessarily God that allows deception in our churches, but we ourselves, because we don't love the truth enough make it the highest priority in our lives.
2 Thess 2:10b-11
10. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
11. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie
very long post but I think I got the jist of it The Holy Spirit will Lead us and Guide us into ALLL truth John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] Jesus Christ is the Way , the life and the truth ![/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] the actual translation reads I Am the ONLY way, the Only Life, and The Only truth.
In Christ we move and have our being . Outside of HIM we can do nothing But with God All things are possible Including not being deceived. Jud 1:24 [/FONT]Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and topresent you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
Jesus is cable of keeping me from falling
The Holy Spirit will Lead us and Guide us into ALLL truth John 16:13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] Jesus Christ is the Way , the life and the truth ![/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] the actual translation reads I Am the ONLY way, the Only Life, and The Only truth.
In Christ we move and have our being . Outside of HIM we can do nothing But with God All things are possible Including not being deceived. Jud 1:24 [/FONT]Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and topresent you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
Jesus is cable of keeping me from falling
OK, thanks.
Short version: we are all screwed up and deceived no matter how strongly we believe in our theology. The only way to grow out of our natural human deception is to love Messiah Jesus more than we love staying deceived. (We are all guilty of this. If you think not, you are even more deceived.)
The reason there are so many deceived people in our churches is because people go there.
We can't change that, but we can decide to grow out of our own self deception. This is a fundamental way to honor God, and His Son, with our lives.
We show our faith in God by desiring to face the truth of ourselves and grow out of our deception.
Short version: we are all screwed up and deceived no matter how strongly we believe in our theology. The only way to grow out of our natural human deception is to love Messiah Jesus more than we love staying deceived. (We are all guilty of this. If you think not, you are even more deceived.)
The reason there are so many deceived people in our churches is because people go there.
We can't change that, but we can decide to grow out of our own self deception. This is a fundamental way to honor God, and His Son, with our lives.
We show our faith in God by desiring to face the truth of ourselves and grow out of our deception.
Because God is a loving God,that is not whipping their butts,but nobody will get away with anything.
It appears for the most part that God allows things to run their natural course,and will intercede to put things on a good course,but since we have a choice between good,and evil,thanks to Adam,and Eve,and I do not mean that in a good way,at least the evil part,then for the most part things happen,because they happen.
If people say why does God allow false prophets,and hypocrites,that deceive people,then why does God allow people to put out pornography,and alcohol,and cigarettes,and drugs,and worldliness,and all other things that are bad,that tempt Christians,and cause some to err.
We are under grace,and the Bible says that God rains on the just,and the unjust,for all get a reward,some choose it in this world,some choose it to be in the spiritual world,which Jesus said the Pharisees have their reward,and a hypocrite has their reward,like the Pharisee.
It appears God allows it to happen,because for the most part God allows things to run its natural course,and will intercede for good,but will not violate our choice,and we are under grace,and it appears for the most part,that God does not go against people like He did in the Old Testament,when back then,He would put down people that caused the Hebrews to err from the truth,but He did allow Jezebel to deceive for a while,but then she was put down.
God is love,but if they are false then they do not have God's protection,which something bad might happen to them,not coming from God,but God allowing it,for they do not have God's protection.
If you are led of the Holy Spirit,you cannot be deceived,and we all have access to a Bible,so if somebody does not take the time to read it,and know the truth,then they might be deceived,but some ignore the truth,wanting to believe what they want to believe,that read the Bible.
Falseness has to happen,and will happen because there is a lot of people that do bad,more than do good,for the saints cannot be united with Christ,until there is a falling away first,which is when there is a unified religious system,and all religions are valid,and they will only want to hear the word of God,according to their own lusts,which goes beyond material things,and money,which happens because God is allowing the world 7 years to have their way,and cause all people that do not love Him,to follow the beast kingdom.
God's word is still available at that time,for His truth will always shine forth,but people will have an occult interpretation of it,believing they can harness the power of nature.
Falseness will occur,because God is going to allow the world 7 years to have their way.
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
God said there will be some hypocrites,and there is a whole lot more of them at the end time,but it is still a great house,for hypocrites do not belong to the Church,but God is not going to strike them down if they go to Church.
It appears for the most part that God allows things to run their natural course,and will intercede to put things on a good course,but since we have a choice between good,and evil,thanks to Adam,and Eve,and I do not mean that in a good way,at least the evil part,then for the most part things happen,because they happen.
If people say why does God allow false prophets,and hypocrites,that deceive people,then why does God allow people to put out pornography,and alcohol,and cigarettes,and drugs,and worldliness,and all other things that are bad,that tempt Christians,and cause some to err.
We are under grace,and the Bible says that God rains on the just,and the unjust,for all get a reward,some choose it in this world,some choose it to be in the spiritual world,which Jesus said the Pharisees have their reward,and a hypocrite has their reward,like the Pharisee.
It appears God allows it to happen,because for the most part God allows things to run its natural course,and will intercede for good,but will not violate our choice,and we are under grace,and it appears for the most part,that God does not go against people like He did in the Old Testament,when back then,He would put down people that caused the Hebrews to err from the truth,but He did allow Jezebel to deceive for a while,but then she was put down.
God is love,but if they are false then they do not have God's protection,which something bad might happen to them,not coming from God,but God allowing it,for they do not have God's protection.
If you are led of the Holy Spirit,you cannot be deceived,and we all have access to a Bible,so if somebody does not take the time to read it,and know the truth,then they might be deceived,but some ignore the truth,wanting to believe what they want to believe,that read the Bible.
Falseness has to happen,and will happen because there is a lot of people that do bad,more than do good,for the saints cannot be united with Christ,until there is a falling away first,which is when there is a unified religious system,and all religions are valid,and they will only want to hear the word of God,according to their own lusts,which goes beyond material things,and money,which happens because God is allowing the world 7 years to have their way,and cause all people that do not love Him,to follow the beast kingdom.
God's word is still available at that time,for His truth will always shine forth,but people will have an occult interpretation of it,believing they can harness the power of nature.
Falseness will occur,because God is going to allow the world 7 years to have their way.
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
God said there will be some hypocrites,and there is a whole lot more of them at the end time,but it is still a great house,for hypocrites do not belong to the Church,but God is not going to strike them down if they go to Church.
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L
i figured something like that
i should explain too --
Jesus in koine Greek gematria sums to 888
(that numerology thing people use usually to associate names with 666)
so some number of people would recognize 888 is a reference to Christ
now you will too!
i should explain too --
Jesus in koine Greek gematria sums to 888
(that numerology thing people use usually to associate names with 666)
so some number of people would recognize 888 is a reference to Christ
now you will too!
Just goes to show what might seem obvious to some was just a decision to use a random number for others.
A good reminder yet again to me not to judge what seems obvious in every way and yet not the intention of the person who may seem obviously saying what I thought. (wow., what does that mean???) LOL
L
I don't have an answer to your dilemma but I do approve the preaching of the Christians you named as frauds. Obviously I don't agree with your views on who is a Christian and who isn't. I've listened to each one of the people mentioned and they preach Christ daily. I believe they are called out by God to preach and many souls have been saved due to their ministries. Jesus Christ gets all the praise.
I see what you mean on the top part of your post....I don't go around telling people that they are false Christians though because I don't really know a lot of them personally and don't know their heart, intention, motives etc...Now if people are attacking others and speaking against the Bible I will speak up and try to do so kindly if possible... I have a hard time when arrogance is in the mix...
But like with my daughter's boyfriend and the mess they are in now.... I did write him a letter and told him he was wrong and when Walmart pulled their write up trick on Jerry I wrote the CEO of the company and the store got investigated... I won't sit by idol when things are unjust and someone is being mean....
The Bible tells us the wheat and tares grow together and the angels do the separating at the end...so it must be hard except for God knowing everything about someone...to make the judgement call to wait until the end to do the separating...
By their fruits you will know them... A true Christian's life will not go against the teachings of the Bible and they should be acting a lot like Jesus..... Not many of us are doing that.... Maybe we are all false Christians in different degrees? I would prefer to think we are all still growing in Christ and take it with a grain of salt with a big side helping of love.... Leaving the judgement part of it to God....
But like with my daughter's boyfriend and the mess they are in now.... I did write him a letter and told him he was wrong and when Walmart pulled their write up trick on Jerry I wrote the CEO of the company and the store got investigated... I won't sit by idol when things are unjust and someone is being mean....
The Bible tells us the wheat and tares grow together and the angels do the separating at the end...so it must be hard except for God knowing everything about someone...to make the judgement call to wait until the end to do the separating...
By their fruits you will know them... A true Christian's life will not go against the teachings of the Bible and they should be acting a lot like Jesus..... Not many of us are doing that.... Maybe we are all false Christians in different degrees? I would prefer to think we are all still growing in Christ and take it with a grain of salt with a big side helping of love.... Leaving the judgement part of it to God....
L
Yes I agree. Only God can know the hearts and He also knew how limited we are to try and do His job of heart monitor. I'm content to do as He says and allow Him to separate the true from the false.
Right now I give time to the preaching and teaching of those Christians who edify and build up Christ in people. Those who don't, I do not have a desire to hear.
Matthew 7:15-23
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. [SUP]16 [/SUP]You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? [SUP]17 [/SUP]So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. [SUP]18 [/SUP]A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. [SUP]22 [/SUP]On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ [SUP]23 [/SUP]And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
This is what God says is a false Christian.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. [SUP]16 [/SUP]You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? [SUP]17 [/SUP]So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. [SUP]18 [/SUP]A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. [SUP]22 [/SUP]On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ [SUP]23 [/SUP]And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
This is what God says is a false Christian.