Why I'm neither Catholic nor Protestant, but Baptist

[KennethC]

I agree...the ones that teach you can lose salvation are defintely false!

That is by your opinion and understand, but the bible supports the teaching of those who fall away from the faith....

Even Apostle Paul multiple times said salvation will be given only to those who continue to keep the faith in the Lord, those who fall away or depart from the faith he gives warning to those who remain that way.

That is another subject though and not proper to be brought up here, as this is not the topic of the thread Dcon !!!

 

[mwc68]

I don't label myself Baptist; but I substantially agree with their theology. There are several denominations, who, like the Baptists, follow a body of teaching which, as VW points out, has been practiced since before the mid second century.

The teachings of Jan Hus, Menno Simons, and the Waldensians, span four centuries before the reformation; and substantially agree with each other and with the earlier teachings which VW mentioned.

Several denominations, beside the Baptists, came out of the same movement; and are very similar if not doctrinally identical with the Baptists.

They are:

The Mennonites, the Plymouth Brethren, the Christian Church, the Evangelical Free Church, the Christian Missionary Alliance, the Mission Covenant Church, Calvary Chapel, and In Faith. I am sure there are others which I am unfamiliar with.

In addition, except for differences in church polity, the Free Methodists are also very similar doctrinally.

Many non- denominational churches also have similar doctrine.

I'm not sure about the other denominations mentioned , but I have heard that the mennonites are close to being amish and I can't accept anything they teach. Just a personal view. I really never understood the amish and don't think they are biblical. I am not a biblical scholar, yet some of their doctrines seem extreme

 

[wattie]

Here is the real distinction:

Catholicism with Roman Catholicism.. Eastern Orthodox etc.. then the Reformation- Methodists.. presbyterians.. Lutherans.. Anglicans (altho Anglicans it could be argued didn't intially differ much at all).. and there was out this.. coming Reformed Baptists and the like.

All of these groups hold to a universal body of Christ. Either it is universal and invisible or universal and visible.

Then you have independent christian churches going down thru the ages..

The distinction: They believe the body of Christ to be a local body of believers.. not universal.

The Family of God being the membership someone joins at salvation rather than a body of Christ. Joining a local body of believers.. a body of Christ is after being baptised. Saved.. baptised.. then someone is ready for joining a local body of Christ.

This is the distinction.

SBC- some churches still believe the body of Christ is a local body and there is no universal church.. but the whole denom has officially changed teaching to believe in a universal body of Christ.

 

[mwc68]

Here is the real distinction:

Catholicism with Roman Catholicism.. Eastern Orthodox etc.. then the Reformation- Methodists.. presbyterians.. Lutherans.. Anglicans (altho Anglicans it could be argued didn't intially differ much at all).. and there was out this.. coming Reformed Baptists and the like.

All of these groups hold to a universal body of Christ. Either it is universal and invisible or universal and visible.

Then you have independent christian churches going down thru the ages..

The distinction: They believe the body of Christ to be a local body of believers.. not universal.

The Family of God being the membership someone joins at salvation rather than a body of Christ. Joining a local body of believers.. a body of Christ is after being baptised. Saved.. baptised.. then someone is ready for joining a local body of Christ.

This is the distinction.

SBC- some churches still believe the body of Christ is a local body and there is no universal church.. but the whole denom has officially changed teaching to believe in a universal body of Christ.

There is a universal body of Christ and it has always been there.

 

[Dude653]

I grew up in a Baptist Church but I am currently non denomination. Most Baptist churches I have attended do not let their women have any active role in the church except maybe to teach children at Sunday school. They use Paul's letters to Corinth and Ephesus out of their to justify this erroneous doctrine. Ask for orderly worship? What exactly is orderly? Do we have to just sit there like a not on a log? Remember when David danced before the Lord? Is the pastor to stand there and dictate exactly how we are to worship?.." ok, I want you to lift your arms precisely at a 90 degree angle and wave them exactly three and a half times. I want you to say "Amen at precisely 47 decibels."...

 

[dcontroversal]

That is by your opinion and understand, but the bible supports the teaching of those who fall away from the faith....

Even Apostle Paul multiple times said salvation will be given only to those who continue to keep the faith in the Lord, those who fall away or depart from the faith he gives warning to those who remain that way.

That is another subject though and not proper to be brought up here, as this is not the topic of the thread Dcon !!!

That is just your view and your opinion Kenneth....you know the difference between you and I...I have consistently been the same faith from the age of 7, whereas your views have been tainted by the 3 different religions you have partaken of....most importantly the Catholic dogma of losing salvation...the bible teaches eternal security even though you deny it by your own opinion!

 

[dcontroversal]

I grew up in a Baptist Church but I am currently non denomination. Most Baptist churches I have attended do not let their women have any active role in the church except maybe to teach children at Sunday school. They use Paul's letters to Corinth and Ephesus out of their to justify this erroneous doctrine. Ask for orderly worship? What exactly is orderly? Do we have to just sit there like a not on a log? Remember when David danced before the Lord? Is the pastor to stand there and dictate exactly how we are to worship?.." ok, I want you to lift your arms precisely at a 90 degree angle and wave them exactly three and a half times. I want you to say "Amen at precisely 47 decibels."...

Really...what about the qualifications of a PASTOR found in Timothy and Titus...inspired of God I might add!

 

[mwc68]

I grew up in a Baptist Church but I am currently non denomination. Most Baptist churches I have attended do not let their women have any active role in the church except maybe to teach children at Sunday school. They use Paul's letters to Corinth and Ephesus out of their to justify this erroneous doctrine. Ask for orderly worship? What exactly is orderly? Do we have to just sit there like a not on a log? Remember when David danced before the Lord? Is the pastor to stand there and dictate exactly how we are to worship?.." ok, I want you to lift your arms precisely at a 90 degree angle and wave them exactly three and a half times. I want you to say "Amen at precisely 47 decibels."...

Imo, Church needs to be orderly. Ive been to churches that have desended into chaos with the tongue thing and then say its the Holy Spirit ministering. I thought it was just chaos. There was no interpreting and, imo, just hocus pocus

 

[flob]

I've never heard anyone claiming there is no universal Body of Christ. I don't understand that one.
I've never even heard unbelievers claim that----since the One New Man is beyond their comprehension
being unspiritual

 

[crossnote]

I grew up in a Baptist Church but I am currently non denomination. Most Baptist churches I have attended do not let their women have any active role in the church except maybe to teach children at Sunday school. They use Paul's letters to Corinth and Ephesus out of their to justify this erroneous doctrine. Ask for orderly worship? What exactly is orderly? Do we have to just sit there like a not on a log? Remember when David danced before the Lord? Is the pastor to stand there and dictate exactly how we are to worship?.." ok, I want you to lift your arms precisely at a 90 degree angle and wave them exactly three and a half times. I want you to say "Amen at precisely 47 decibels."...

what a dumb caricature, and so also those who imbibe your imagery.

 

[MarcR]

I'm not sure about the other denominations mentioned , but I have heard that the mennonites are close to being amish and I can't accept anything they teach. Just a personal view. I really never understood the amish and don't think they are biblical. I am not a biblical scholar, yet some of their doctrines seem extreme

The Mennonites that I know; and I know many in this part of Oregon, have much more in common with the Baptists (Especially the German Baptists), and the Evangelical Free church than with the Amish.

 

[MarcR]

The Mennonites that I know; and I know many in this part of Oregon, have much more in common with the Baptists (Especially the German Baptists), and the Evangelical Free church than with the Amish.

In fact, I know of 2 former Mennonite churches in Dallas, OR. which have realigned themselves with the Evangelical Free Church.

 

[purgedconscience]

No, I am not a Protestant, not that I accuse any today of being as those Protestants were, just as I do not accuse Calvinists of being the murderous John Calvin. I am proudly, fundamentally, and always a Christian who calls himself a Baptist, Southern variety.

Your murderous John Calvin comment caught my attention in that I've long believed Calvin to have been a murderer myself, but I never hear anybody mention that. Could you share your thoughts with me on that? Privately is fine. Thank you.

 

[Dude653]

I think the term orderly worship could be interpreted in different ways. This is a problem with Paul's writings is that people use them out of their context. In my church during the praise and worship part of the service, occasionally someone will dance around maybe shout, wave or something of that nature. During this time,there is no preaching or teaching being done so they are not interrupting anything. I do not see this as a problem.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

Most protestants consider Baptists to be protestants. Actually anything that's not Jewish or RCC or eastern occult is considered protestant.

Not by us Baptists.

Nor, for that matter, by well-versed historians of the Christian faith. Those who preceded us were tortured, killed, and subjugated equally by Catholics and Protestants.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

.. and there was out this.. coming Reformed Baptists and the like.

"Reformed Baptists" are a new phenomenon, a movement that is about 45-50 years old. It didn't come out of Lutherian separation.

SBC- some churches still believe the body of Christ is a local body and there is no universal church.. but the whole denom has officially changed teaching to believe in a universal body of Christ.

My study of SBC history hasn't shown me that the denomination ever taught the body wasn't universal in nature, but we always have and still do hold to local church autonomy, i.e., there is no one higher in authority than the local body of elders. The SBC organization is solely for the support the local church effort.

 

[atwhatcost]

Maybe sometimes it takes someone outside to tell people that are involved in such threads they are acting ridiculous?

Well, you wrote this on Page 1, and it kept going to Page 3 (so far.) And from my experience of writing something similar on Page 37 on another thread, and since noticing (last time I checked) it reach another 100 pages, nah. I really don't think that works.

It would be fun to count how many times that was said on the Catholic Heresy thread though. lol

 

[atwhatcost]

Good question. Can't answer it. Most Baptist denominations adhere pretty closely to the original tenets of the faith, from what I've been able to ascertain. Free Will tend to believe, though not across the board from church to church, that salvation can be lost. There are other quirks too, including those that get facetiously labeled "bapticostals" who embrace continuance of the miraculous gifts. But if you look at the mainstream Baptists, we all pretty much embrace the same doctrines, most important of which, to us, is local church autonomy and the word of God as final authority.

I'm blessed to get to know people like you, too, AWC, and most of the others on CC&F. There are a lot of Reformed/Calvinist Baptists. In fact, it's a movement among SBCers. They call themselves the "Young, Restless, and Reformed." I believe most of what they believe, but cannot see biblically that they can support limited atonement and irresistible grace. But that's another thread.

Beyond a shadow of a doubt, dear friend, beyond a shadow of a doubt.

And that's why I could never be Reformed Baptists. I may be reformed, but I'm neither young nor restless. lol

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

And that's why I could never be Reformed Baptists. I may be reformed, but I'm neither young nor restless. lol

That makes two of us, kiddo.

 

[atwhatcost]

I must of found a good one. They don't fluctuate in their beliefs.

Sounds like you had a bad run. Don't sweat it ,you will catch up. I hope.

Actually, you're simply not old enough to see the fluctuation. (And I'm not calling you a kid or young... at least in an insulting way.) They aren't googling trends. It usually takes 10-30 years before you notice what you used to be taught is now the opposite of what's taught now.

It's kind of like listening to evolutionary theory for decades. First you buy it, then you notice something changed, but think maybe you just didn't understand or forgot something, but, when it happens often enough, you can pinpoint what changed. And then they try to convince you that you kept getting it wrong way after you realize it wasn't you from the beginning.

I wasn't dumb for taking so long to figure it out. Fortunately, I don't think you're dumb either. That wildly on-fire church I started going to when I was 23 was amazing. We left when it started being more important to be successfully-middle-class than to believe all the Bible says. (And we were successful middle-classers, it was just that neither one of us went for white-collar jobs.) The church is still around. It no longer matters what the Bible says at all, but hey! Many of the members are very successful middle-classers. The important ones are lower-upper-classers.