Why is it assumed by many here that Grace Folk live in blatant, unrepentant sin?
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No i'm not saying we need to be perfect. I'm saying that to believe your being lead by the Spirit of God and to continually be practising the sins of the flesh is a contradiction. we fail and fall and we are all at different stages in the sanctification process, No one is perfect. To knowingly live in unrepentant sin and think that grace will cover you is not what the word teaches.
I have never heard anyone say "Go out and sin all you want" and do not "obey Jesus" and I have listened to over a thousand different messages from various teachers of the grace of Christ.
I do see where some people all the time accuse grace believers as doing the above.
Most people once you tell the truth of what you believe - they are ok. Others no matter how many times you tell them the truth - they say the complete opposite and it is almost useless to discuss things with this type of mindset as they continually "twist" what is really being said.
As far as Christians "sinning in the flesh" ( it does happen despite some that preach "sinless perfection in the flesh" and if you do sin - then you are of the devil and not born of God )......there are a few reasons that I see that can get Christians caught in this deceitful web.
People do get stuck in various things that are destructive but the real Christian does not want to be in that. They want to walk free from those things - not live in them happily.
IMO... This is why we need to be preaching grace as only the grace of Christ has the power to change a person from the inside out. We can temporarily change ourselves outwardly by our own self-effort and human will but usually that does not last.
As we see Christ and keep our eyes on Him and in His finished work for us - the Holy Spirit transforms us outwardly to manifest our true nature in our new creations in Christ. We are created in righteousness and holiness. We need to participate in this process and desire to live by the spirit within.
The true Christian that is living in continuous sin is the most miserable person on the planet. ( there are believers that go to church every week and read their bibles and pray all the time and they can be in this category as well as the person out shooting heroin in their arms )
He is living against his true nature on the inside and is constantly trying to cover up this miserableness. This describes those that deliberately refuse to even desire to walk in who they are in Christ and perhaps in some cases they are not really "in Christ" at all.
Perhaps they are in fact "in Christ" but have never really heard the gospel of the grace of Christ and thus live defeated by various things? I'll let the angels at the end of the ages separate the tares from the wheat.
In the meantime - preach and teach on the love and grace of Christ that is in the true gospel so that the Christian will have the "nutrients" needed to grow up in Christ.
I do see where some people all the time accuse grace believers as doing the above.
Most people once you tell the truth of what you believe - they are ok. Others no matter how many times you tell them the truth - they say the complete opposite and it is almost useless to discuss things with this type of mindset as they continually "twist" what is really being said.
As far as Christians "sinning in the flesh" ( it does happen despite some that preach "sinless perfection in the flesh" and if you do sin - then you are of the devil and not born of God )......there are a few reasons that I see that can get Christians caught in this deceitful web.
People do get stuck in various things that are destructive but the real Christian does not want to be in that. They want to walk free from those things - not live in them happily.
IMO... This is why we need to be preaching grace as only the grace of Christ has the power to change a person from the inside out. We can temporarily change ourselves outwardly by our own self-effort and human will but usually that does not last.
As we see Christ and keep our eyes on Him and in His finished work for us - the Holy Spirit transforms us outwardly to manifest our true nature in our new creations in Christ. We are created in righteousness and holiness. We need to participate in this process and desire to live by the spirit within.
The true Christian that is living in continuous sin is the most miserable person on the planet. ( there are believers that go to church every week and read their bibles and pray all the time and they can be in this category as well as the person out shooting heroin in their arms )
He is living against his true nature on the inside and is constantly trying to cover up this miserableness. This describes those that deliberately refuse to even desire to walk in who they are in Christ and perhaps in some cases they are not really "in Christ" at all.
Perhaps they are in fact "in Christ" but have never really heard the gospel of the grace of Christ and thus live defeated by various things? I'll let the angels at the end of the ages separate the tares from the wheat.
In the meantime - preach and teach on the love and grace of Christ that is in the true gospel so that the Christian will have the "nutrients" needed to grow up in Christ.
There are a lot of answers to that question. One of them is people that have a Calvinistic belief that salvation can be lost so how a parson seams on the outside, overt sin, is of high importance because they get to judge if your saved or no. But I have never had a Calvinist answer about overt sin; the sin of their thoughts, heart, grumblings to themselves when no one can hear. But then there is the other extreme, Dr. Michael Brown calls it hyper grace. I like that term. What does is matter what sin you commit or how much you commit it we saved by grace; no need to become a new creation we’ll get to heaven anyway. There is a big flaw in that to because the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin and if someone is not convicted maybe there are not saved or for sure in a really back sliden state, or have never properly grown. Only G-d knows if they are saved or not because one cannot tell by their fruit. At least the other type has visible fruit.
I understand this thought. There are people in churches all over North America that have malice towards others in the body of Christ and slander them as if it is nothing - and they don't give these unrepentant sins a second thought.
They wouldn't think of smoking or any thing else that is a "biggie sin" to them but they will go to church every time the door is open but think nothing of slandering others.
These types of people are in the exact same boat as those people that are living in a homosexual lifestyle and think it is ok to live like that.
They wouldn't think of smoking or any thing else that is a "biggie sin" to them but they will go to church every time the door is open but think nothing of slandering others.
These types of people are in the exact same boat as those people that are living in a homosexual lifestyle and think it is ok to live like that.
Hello Grace777,
It is a mystery to me as well. For some reason not being under the law to them equates to free reign to sin. They can't comprehend the meaning of being under a different covenant, saved by grace through faith, apart from the works of the law. To them it seems to be either or. Our focus should be on the One who provided salvation for us, for it is by trusting in him for our salvation that we are saved. True believers who are under grace are zealous to keep from sinning against God and eager to confess them when we do. Yet we are not under the law.
It is a mystery to me as well. For some reason not being under the law to them equates to free reign to sin. They can't comprehend the meaning of being under a different covenant, saved by grace through faith, apart from the works of the law. To them it seems to be either or. Our focus should be on the One who provided salvation for us, for it is by trusting in him for our salvation that we are saved. True believers who are under grace are zealous to keep from sinning against God and eager to confess them when we do. Yet we are not under the law.
What have those of us posted that prove abuse of God's grace so that it is assumed that we are living in unrepentant sin?
It is my experience that the more I understand God's grace and walk in it the LESS sin there is in my life! And not just the 'big' sins, but things like anger, worry, pride, etc.
Is it actual sin that is being assumed or potential sin that is being assumed?
And if it is potential sin that is being assumed, how is that in line with 'love rejoices with the truth' and 'love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things'?
Are those who are implying that Grace Folk are living in rebellious sin walking in love toward us? We have given them no reason to imply the things they do.
And if it's potential sin, do they not know that the Bible tells us that Grace teaches to say no to ungodliness and that Law actually stirs up sin? If Grace Folk are living and teaching in Grace, how is that leading to more sin in their lives?
It doesn't add up.
So why do they do it?
-JGIG
It is my experience that the more I understand God's grace and walk in it the LESS sin there is in my life! And not just the 'big' sins, but things like anger, worry, pride, etc.
Is it actual sin that is being assumed or potential sin that is being assumed?
And if it is potential sin that is being assumed, how is that in line with 'love rejoices with the truth' and 'love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things'?
Are those who are implying that Grace Folk are living in rebellious sin walking in love toward us? We have given them no reason to imply the things they do.
And if it's potential sin, do they not know that the Bible tells us that Grace teaches to say no to ungodliness and that Law actually stirs up sin? If Grace Folk are living and teaching in Grace, how is that leading to more sin in their lives?
It doesn't add up.
So why do they do it?
-JGIG
Question: How many people did Jesus require to repent before He forgave them and healed them? And the New Covenant Scriptures say that we must believe and receive the forgiveness of Christ, not that we earn it (conditional). Repentance (Biblically difined as a change of mind and heart) precedes belief in Christ and receiving His gifts of forgiveness, righteousness, and new life, but it is not defined as turning from sin - in essence 'cleaning ourselves up' - to be acceptable to God. No, 'while we were yet sinners, Christ died for the ungodly.' He takes us as we are - we simply need to recognize it and choose whether or not we believe what He has done and then walk in the newness of life He gives us.
-JGIG
-JGIG