Why is it assumed by many here that Grace Folk live in blatant, unrepentant sin?
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Um, No Paul did not say this,
He said they did this, But they were washed justified and sanctified. Not because they stopped it. In fact later on, Paul claims that some of them are still doing it.. yet he still calls them brothers and sisters.
I however, agree, If we allow ourselves to be led by the spirit, we will not sin. The problem is, We do not do this all the time.. Which is why we are tempted.. and fail.
He said they did this, But they were washed justified and sanctified. Not because they stopped it. In fact later on, Paul claims that some of them are still doing it.. yet he still calls them brothers and sisters.
I however, agree, If we allow ourselves to be led by the spirit, we will not sin. The problem is, We do not do this all the time.. Which is why we are tempted.. and fail.
From the book of Jude
14Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones 15 to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”16 These people are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage.
17 But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the people who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.
20 But you, dear friends, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.
22 Be merciful to those who doubt; 23 save others by snatching them from the fire; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.
24 To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— 25 to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.
14Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones 15 to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”16 These people are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage.
17 But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the people who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.
20 But you, dear friends, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.
22 Be merciful to those who doubt; 23 save others by snatching them from the fire; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.
24 To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— 25 to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.
Maybe because they are afraid of taking off the shackles of legalism and walking in liberty? In their mindset they must walk the narrow path and like a bowling lane the guard rails are like the Law. Its what keeps them straight, so instead of relying upon Christ's sacrifice in totality they, at the very least, have a part in sustaining themselves.
So, in this respect, they accuse us of living in blatant unrepentant sin because they themselves cannot fathom a walk in faith and in the Spirit as opposed to the Law. Sometimes it goes much deeper than pride, and instead of viewing them as opposition we rather should look at them as helpless deer in a forest on a foggy night. Prime for fiery arrows and defenseless, because their assurance does not rely upon Christ, but their very own walk. In comes the accuser and then condemnation in the heart that distances themselves away from God (by their own doing).
Summarized, the accusation itself is rooted in fear. A fear of liberty and walking in the freedom that Christ has purchased through His blood. So we received Him by faith, so we ought to walk. In faith. Morality seems to be the right way, but in actuality leads to destruction. It is God who sanctifies us, not morality. This then means that our character is being molded by God, through His process of sanctification as He deems fit in His timing. So then, our walk is somewhat passive in that we must enter His rest. The battle then is residing there, striving to enter that rest.
So, in this respect, they accuse us of living in blatant unrepentant sin because they themselves cannot fathom a walk in faith and in the Spirit as opposed to the Law. Sometimes it goes much deeper than pride, and instead of viewing them as opposition we rather should look at them as helpless deer in a forest on a foggy night. Prime for fiery arrows and defenseless, because their assurance does not rely upon Christ, but their very own walk. In comes the accuser and then condemnation in the heart that distances themselves away from God (by their own doing).
Summarized, the accusation itself is rooted in fear. A fear of liberty and walking in the freedom that Christ has purchased through His blood. So we received Him by faith, so we ought to walk. In faith. Morality seems to be the right way, but in actuality leads to destruction. It is God who sanctifies us, not morality. This then means that our character is being molded by God, through His process of sanctification as He deems fit in His timing. So then, our walk is somewhat passive in that we must enter His rest. The battle then is residing there, striving to enter that rest.
Probably because the "false grace" folk who follow the false teachings of JP say things like this---->>>
All in all, why do we even want to sin less at all? VVhat gain is there in sinning less? The question, I guess, is what significance is there in us sinning less or even not at all?
We all "sin willfully" in our hearts and minds every day.
if you are in fact in Christ - you would be in His presence despite your wilful sinning.
This truth applies to all of us.
It is telling when people take a part of a post without the context to show why people are saying things. This is the kind of blatant deceitful things that some people do.
It's shameful the outright deceitfulness that goes on but we expect that - but I have no problem answering my post that was to him although I know the malice that is behind this individual as it is well documented.
I had in that post told him that when people slander and exhibit malice towards others and they are doing that "willfully". That is a wilful sin and despite the fact that he did that - if they are in fact "in Christ"- if he died tonight he would be with Jesus because he would still be the righteousness of God in Christ.
If people were even half honest they know that most sin is done wilfully except for those that believe in this "sinless perfection in the flesh".
To these types - they can never admit they are sinning because they say that you are of the devil if you sin. That would make them of the devil if they did admit that they too sin and will sin in the future.
It's shameful the outright deceitfulness that goes on but we expect that - but I have no problem answering my post that was to him although I know the malice that is behind this individual as it is well documented.
I had in that post told him that when people slander and exhibit malice towards others and they are doing that "willfully". That is a wilful sin and despite the fact that he did that - if they are in fact "in Christ"- if he died tonight he would be with Jesus because he would still be the righteousness of God in Christ.
If people were even half honest they know that most sin is done wilfully except for those that believe in this "sinless perfection in the flesh".
To these types - they can never admit they are sinning because they say that you are of the devil if you sin. That would make them of the devil if they did admit that they too sin and will sin in the future.
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People generally like to make assumptions. People have to every day because they are lacking pieces of information to come to a conclusion.
I don't know enough to know if a person who receives salvation loses it because of a later sin. I do know that after I received salvation, any sin I have committed has brought great calamity upon my life.
I don't know enough to know if a person who receives salvation loses it because of a later sin. I do know that after I received salvation, any sin I have committed has brought great calamity upon my life.
Why is it assumed by many here that Grace Folk live in blatant, unrepentant sin?
I believe one of the reasons is that some here are willing to readily admit to their faults and failures and others may assume that this is "blatant, unrepentant sin" as opposed to an openness to discuss challenges faced in life as described in James 5:16 (Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much).
How many of us pray for each other when we see posts which describe situations another believer is facing and trying to overcome?
How many of us point fingers at that person and accuse of "blatant, unrepentant sin"?
Then we have some who will not openly admit they have any weaknesses or faults to overcome. And the some who will not openly admit then accuse those who point out that all have faults of being schooled in deception or of using deceptive tactics.
Very interesting conundrum we face here on this Board.
I believe one of the reasons is that some here are willing to readily admit to their faults and failures and others may assume that this is "blatant, unrepentant sin" as opposed to an openness to discuss challenges faced in life as described in James 5:16 (Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much).
How many of us pray for each other when we see posts which describe situations another believer is facing and trying to overcome?
How many of us point fingers at that person and accuse of "blatant, unrepentant sin"?
Then we have some who will not openly admit they have any weaknesses or faults to overcome. And the some who will not openly admit then accuse those who point out that all have faults of being schooled in deception or of using deceptive tactics.
Very interesting conundrum we face here on this Board.
Got to say
HG people said they sin everyday, and gave actual examples of sin which
was unresolved.
When did Jesus or the apostles say blatent sin was ok?
It is like saying I am an ex murderer but I keep a stash of bodies in the garden
everyday because I cannot stop killing people, but hey, I am a murderer.
When did this way of talking about the reason the lake of fire exists and judgement will come
like it is not an issue? Maybe when people said all future sin is forgiven and a long explanation
was given how this might work. It might just give the impression
YOU HAVE NO CARE ABOUT SIN
DERRRRRRR
HG people said they sin everyday, and gave actual examples of sin which
was unresolved.
When did Jesus or the apostles say blatent sin was ok?
It is like saying I am an ex murderer but I keep a stash of bodies in the garden
everyday because I cannot stop killing people, but hey, I am a murderer.
When did this way of talking about the reason the lake of fire exists and judgement will come
like it is not an issue? Maybe when people said all future sin is forgiven and a long explanation
was given how this might work. It might just give the impression
YOU HAVE NO CARE ABOUT SIN
DERRRRRRR
Probably because the "false grace" folk who follow the false teachings of JP say things like this---->>>
You still are misquoting me? If you remember this was my response to you when you first misused what I said.
Originally Posted by BenFTW
You have misunderstood the questions I asked and its intended point to ponder. You also have taken it out of context which I asked of you to not do. The context of those questions is making a point of the reason behind sinning less, or not at all. Why does God want us to stop sinning? He sent Jesus to die for us so we could be reconciled to Him but also too that we may walk in righteousness. One reason is love.
This question is a valid one, not one that is trying to say, "Why stop sinning at all?" That is your false interpretation of it, and your way of trying to defame people you disagree with. Oh.. but you're sinless right? You wouldn't bear false witness, and make it seem like someone is saying something they aren't by editing what they said in a quote, now would you? You did though.
You have misunderstood the questions I asked and its intended point to ponder. You also have taken it out of context which I asked of you to not do. The context of those questions is making a point of the reason behind sinning less, or not at all. Why does God want us to stop sinning? He sent Jesus to die for us so we could be reconciled to Him but also too that we may walk in righteousness. One reason is love.
This question is a valid one, not one that is trying to say, "Why stop sinning at all?" That is your false interpretation of it, and your way of trying to defame people you disagree with. Oh.. but you're sinless right? You wouldn't bear false witness, and make it seem like someone is saying something they aren't by editing what they said in a quote, now would you? You did though.
Ben...you and those that are watching can see that some people take a post "out of context" to make it appear it's saying something else. We just have to resign ourselves that this ungodly behavior is considered acceptable to them.
We should expect this to keep happening until something is done about this deceitful behavior.
It's the nature of the beast of the self-proclaimed heretic hunters.....All is well....don't give it another thought....
Some of this stems out of people presenting themselves sinless, self-righteous. VVhen asked if they sin they simply respond by saying, "Only the Lord can judge" or they quote scripture implying sinless perfection such that scripture says one born again cannot sin. If you cared about righteousness you might be more forthright with your shortcomings instead of putting up a facade of sinless perfection. You might say that it is the goal but yet attained. However, this isn't often the case. Its usually deflection and going down hypothetical roads of what "hyper grace" can lead to rather than what it is actually doing in the lives of its proponents.
VVe don't sin so that grace may abound, but when we do sin grace does abound. His grace is sufficient. You cannot get around the fact that scripture declares that while walking in the light the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin/unrighteousness. The fact that its cleansing us of sin while walking in the light should give you something to ponder.
VVe don't sin so that grace may abound, but when we do sin grace does abound. His grace is sufficient. You cannot get around the fact that scripture declares that while walking in the light the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin/unrighteousness. The fact that its cleansing us of sin while walking in the light should give you something to ponder.
G
As I grow in the Lord, I just cannot agree. Ignorance is no excuse. After we get all the overt sins figured out and pretty much cleaned up..........them comes guilt,worry,fear,and whole list of mental attitude sins. Not to mention the "good" we do in the flesh rather than the Spirit.
I can comprehend a believer living in the unrepentant sin of fear, guilt and worry. I can see how it is very possible.
We have no idea how bad our sin problem really is. And Grace trumps it by leaps and bounds.
I can comprehend a believer living in the unrepentant sin of fear, guilt and worry. I can see how it is very possible.
We have no idea how bad our sin problem really is. And Grace trumps it by leaps and bounds.