Yes, RIGHTEOUSNESS comes through FAITH, but …

[Hizikyah]

I need to correct one thing in my previous post - My "state" as a daughter within the household of God is sealed . . . sealed until the day of redemption [Eph. 13,14] - should be my "standing" as a daughter is sealed until the day of redemption.

Then there is my walk within the household of God - my standing as a daughter is there forever - but my walk can fluctuate. In other words - my walk - done in the flesh - can be within the lines but at times those lines may be crossed. THAT does not change my standing as a daughter but it does change my fellowship [my state] with my heavenly Father.
My being God's daughter has no bearing whatsoever upon what I do; but my state is directly affected by my actions. Christ in you is sonship [standing] - you in Christ is fellowship [state]. I can't maintain my closeness, my fellowship with God if I am continually outside the lines - I have to get things back in realignment by asking forgiveness and start over again. This is done moment by moment, day by day . . . . but NOTHING touches that incorruptible seed within me once I am born again.

Love in Messiah sister, my eyes welled up when I read that. I am glad and joyful! I asked not because I though any different but because in this kind of understanding is IMO where the confusion comes in about obedience. Thank you for the witness!

1 Corinthians 2:9, "But as it is written: Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the mind of man the things which Yahweh has prepared for those who love Him."

 

[newbirth]

Romans 8:
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God,
to those who are the called according to His purpose.
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to
the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called;
whom He called, these He also justified;
and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

God knows the end from the beginning.
God knows the hearts of all men ... throughout all of time.
God chose a particular "elect" group, knowing they would satisfy Him.
God predestined them and called them according to His purpose.
God knew they would be obedient and succeed in being His overcomers.
God knew they would be granted eternal life.

God concluded all under sin....
God gives all the opportunity to receive Christ....
God gives all who receive Christ to power to become a son of God
God gives all who receive him the HS to follow
God predetermined this from the foundation of the world
God call believers the body of Christ the elect
God predestined men to be conformed to the image of his son
God is not a respecter of persons

 

[AtonedFor]

... but NOTHING touches that incorruptible seed within me once I am born again.

Great, but what's with these warning verses about
walking away from, rejecting, losing "eternal life"?

Are you not able to read these? Are you allergic to them?
Like, do your eyes all swell up when you begin to read them?

 

[newbirth]

I need to correct one thing in my previous post - My "state" as a daughter within the household of God is sealed . . . sealed until the day of redemption [Eph. 13,14] - should be my "standing" as a daughter is sealed until the day of redemption.

Then there is my walk within the household of God - my standing as a daughter is there forever - but my walk can fluctuate. In other words - my walk - done in the flesh - can be within the lines but at times those lines may be crossed. THAT does not change my standing as a daughter but it does change my fellowship [my state] with my heavenly Father.
My being God's daughter has no bearing whatsoever upon what I do; but my state is directly affected by my actions. Christ in you is sonship [standing] - you in Christ is fellowship [state]. I can't maintain my closeness, my fellowship with God if I am continually outside the lines - I have to get things back in realignment by asking forgiveness and start over again. This is done moment by moment, day by day . . . . but NOTHING touches that incorruptible seed within me once I am born again.

you must read 2 Peter 2
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:

[SUP]20 [/SUP]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

nothing touches the incorruptible seed....but if you are corrupt......

 

[Elin]

my dear friend you are teaching contrary to scripture....because you answer vs 14 in the affirmative...
[SUP]14 [/SUP]What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Paul says only true faith saves.

And James says true faith obeys.

No contradiction.

and you also make a false claim against scripture by saying faith is never alone..

when James clearly states that faith if it hath not works is dead being alone

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Which is what I said.

 

[Elin]

Elin, some have chosen not to walk with God.
Elin, some have chosen to continue sinning.
For all kinds of reasons.
Ask your pastor, who has probably seen it often.
Maybe in his own life.

Most do return, however.

But not so coming up!
Some BACs will NOT submit to having their heads chopped off.
Some BACs WILL submit to accepting the mark of the beast.
These "somes" will lose their eternal lives (eternal life)!

So much for good olde OSAS.

Theories are nice, but da proof's in da puddin'.

Agreed, as the proof of salvation is in the obedience and perserverance.

Lack of either shows there was never any salvation in the first place,
their faith was counterfeit because it had no root of rebirth (Lk 8:13).

 

[newbirth]

Paul says only true faith saves.

And James says true faith obeys.

No contradiction.


Which is what I said.

Paul says we are saved by grace through faith....
James says faith without works is dead being alone....
you say.....

For works do not save, faith alone saves.
But faith is never alone.

big contradiction.....

 

[newbirth]

Agreed, as the proof of salvation is in the obedience and perserverance.

Lack of either shows there was never any salvation in the first place,
their faith was counterfeit because it had no root of rebirth (Lk 8:13).

Peter says they have already escaped....you say they never escaped...

[SUP]20 [/SUP]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

 

[Elin]

Paul says we are saved by grace through faith....
James says faith without works is dead being alone....
you say.....

For works do not save, faith alone saves.
But faith is never alone.

big contradiction.....

No more contradiction than

Mary did not knit it, Elin alone knit the sweater,
but Elin is never alone.

 

[Elin]

Peter says they have already escaped....you say they never escaped...

[SUP]20 [/SUP]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

Perfect description of counterfeit faith, which "believes" and does church for a while, but ends up falling away from the faith (Lk 8:13).

 

[kennethcadwell]

Peter says they have already escaped....you say they never escaped...

[SUP]20 [/SUP]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

Yes, I have a hard time understanding why they can not see the simple truth in these scriptures.

Like I was told this scripture from our Lord just the other day has nothing to do with salvation;



Matthew 10:22
And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

But when you take and use the method of scripture to interpret scripture, we can see that it does;


Hebrews 10:36
For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised.



Here we have in the epistle to the Hebrews confirming what Jesus said, and says once you have done the will of God you will receive what is promised. What was promised to us? It is salvation through Christ.

 

[newbirth]

Perfect description of counterfeit faith, which "believes" and does church for a while, but ends up falling away from the faith (Lk 8:13).

you are saying a counterfeit faith can save?...they already escaped....they choose to get entangled once again...is it not the same faith that is operating in those who choose not to be entangled again?....perfect example of one trampling on the grace of God.[SUP]

20 [/SUP]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

 

[kennethcadwell]

The only way you can escape the pollutions ( which are sins ) of the world is to be forgiven of those sins through Jesus Christ.
Else wise you are still a slave to those sins.
Then the scripture says after they have been forgiven ( escaped ) those sins through Christ, the get entangled in sin again and it controls their life making them a slave to it again.
Then it says their ending is worse for they no longer have salvation, for they have made themselves disobedient to Him.

 

[newbirth]

No more contradiction than

Mary did not knit it, Elin alone knit the sweater,
but Elin is never alone.

what you say does not contradict what you say.....but what you say has nothing to do with what scripture says...you and Mary knitting in a corner...has nothing to do with faith without works being alone....you are saying faith is never alone...scripture says faith without works is dead being alone...it is either you are lying or scripture is lying.....I am calling you on your lie....

 

[ladylynn]

Unlike TVs QVC and HSN the idea of being saved on "easy pay" or "stretch pay" is NOT the case with how the Lord has defined our salvation. We are not saved on the installment plan.., Eternal life is just that, E T E R N A L L I F E ., signed sealed and delivered by Jesus Christ the Son of God who IS the whole concept of grace.

 

[newbirth]

Unlike TVs QVC and HSN the idea of being saved on "easy pay" or "stretch pay" is NOT the case with how the Lord has defined our salvation. We are not saved on the installment plan.., Eternal life is just that, E T E R N A L L I F E ., signed sealed and delivered by Jesus Christ the Son of God who IS the whole concept of grace.

Luke 13:23-25King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

 

[kennethcadwell]

Unlike TVs QVC and HSN the idea of being saved on "easy pay" or "stretch pay" is NOT the case with how the Lord has defined our salvation. We are not saved on the installment plan.., Eternal life is just that, E T E R N A L L I F E ., signed sealed and delivered by Jesus Christ the Son of God who IS the whole concept of grace.

Matthew 10:22
And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.


Hebrews 10:36
For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised.


1 Timothy 4:16
Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers.


James 1:12
Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.


2 Peter 1:5-9
5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductivein your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.

 

[ladylynn]

Luke 13:23-25King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

I know, I know you can't get away from paying for your salvation with "stretch pay"., You just keep on making those installment payments ignoring the fact Jesus suffered and died on the cross for every single sin you have committed, those you know about and even those you don't know about., and ONLY because of HIM do you have eternal life. Jesus MET every single requirement of a HOLY RIGHTEOUS God. Instead of bringing UP the name of Jesus, you bring His FULL COMPLETE SACRIFICE down as merely AND only one of many installment payments.,to be added to your own by insisting on those stinking installment payments you keep wanting to add to His final once and for all payment. Brothers!!!! Jesus paid it all. all to Him I owe..sin had left a crimson stain.....HE WASHED IT WHITE AS SNOW......as far as the east is from the west., He remembers your sin.... NO MORE....

 

[Kerry]

It is not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit saith the Lord. Where do our works fit in that equation?

 

[Elin]

[SUP]20 [/SUP]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.[/

you are saying a counterfeit faith can save?...they already escaped....

They escaped the pollutions of the world in the Christian community and its Biblical teaching,
they did not escape the wrath of God on their sin at the final judgment through saving faith.

they choose to get entangled once again...is it not the same faith that is operating in those who choose not to be entangled again?....

No, it is not.

Counterfeit faith (Lk 8:13) is by human decision.
Saving faith through the root of re-birth, being born of God, is by divine decision (Jn 1:13).

perfect example of one trampling on the grace of God.

Yes, in falling away from the Biblical truth they were taught, they are trampling on the grace of God in giving them that truth.