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K
I know, I know you can't get away from paying for your salvation with "stretch pay"., You just keep on making those installment payments ignoring the fact Jesus suffered and died on the cross for every single sin you have committed, those you know about and even those you don't know about., and ONLY because of HIM do you have eternal life. Jesus MET every single requirement of a HOLY RIGHTEOUS God. Instead of bringing UP the name of Jesus, you bring His FULL COMPLETE SACRIFICE down as merely AND only one of many installment payments.,to be added to your own 
by insisting on those stinking installment payments you keep wanting to add to His final once and for all payment. Brothers!!!! Jesus paid it all. all to Him I owe..sin had left a crimson stain.....HE WASHED IT WHITE AS SNOW......as far as the east is from the west., He remembers your sin.... NO MORE....
by insisting on those stinking installment payments you keep wanting to add to His final once and for all payment. Brothers!!!! Jesus paid it all. all to Him I owe..sin had left a crimson stain.....HE WASHED IT WHITE AS SNOW......as far as the east is from the west., He remembers your sin.... NO MORE....
2 Peter 1:5-9
5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge;6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness;7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love.8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductivein your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.9But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.
[h=1]1 John 1:8-10[/h]8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.
Both of these scriptures show that future sins are not forgiven tell they are confessed, and asked forgiveness of. Then you have 1 Timothy that says you can become tainted by sin again;
1 Timothy 5:22
Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, nor take part in the sins of others; keep yourself pure.
P
For those who believe you can lose your salvation, how long does one take to lose your's salvation. How long does God chastening a believer, before He kick him or her out of the body of Christ.
[SUP]Heb. 12:5 [/SUP]And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
Your friend in Christ
pug32
[SUP]Heb. 12:5 [/SUP]And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
Your friend in Christ
pug32
P
Please note that those who need chastening had lost their righteousness,
which was originally imputed to them by Christ.
true, but they don't lose their place as sons. No chasetisement then you are bastard and not sons, but chastisement then you are sons
[SUP]Heb. 12:7[/SUP]If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
[SUP]8[/SUP]But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Your friend in Christ
pug32
which was originally imputed to them by Christ.
true, but they don't lose their place as sons. No chasetisement then you are bastard and not sons, but chastisement then you are sons
[SUP]Heb. 12:7[/SUP]If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
[SUP]8[/SUP]But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Your friend in Christ
pug32
look at your folly...did you not just say faith alone saves.....that is what you preach...you speak with a forked tongue...let your yea be yea and your nay be nay....you must now change your statement...about faith alone saves....you cannot have it both ways...you either refute Calvin or you refute James...which is it?
what happens if you don't endure chastening ..... ...If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons.......it would be logical.......if you don't endure chastening, God dealeth with you not as with sons
John 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Hebrews 12:16-17
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.
John 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Hebrews 12:16-17
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.
L
Jesus Who knew no sin ... became sin for us... Our sin was IMPUTED to Jesus Christ who knew no sin.... Jesus righteousness was IMPUTED to us who knew NO righteousness, could do NO righteousness. So Jesus did nothing to deserve any judgment for any sin because He is the spotless lamb of God pure without sin spot or blemish.
And WE can do NOTHING to gain any righteousness because we were sinners incapable of righteousness., it had to be IMPUTED to us from the ONE who was sinless.
What you guys keep trying to do is cut salvation into parts. Just some parts of sin were imputed to Jesus and some of His righteousness was imputed to us... YIKES that is NOT a full salvation.
Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ never the less I live yet not I but Christ liveth in me., and the life I now life I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me.....delivered Himself up for me.
Why keep crucifying the Son of God a fresh??? He said IT IS FINISHED. Why do you keep on wanting to make it unfinished? Why not rest in the full salvation that has been bought and paid for IN FULL by Jesus Christ your great HIGH Priest, Only He could go into the Holy of Holies on our behalf. We cannot go into the Holy of Holies., you will not be able to go in there brothers if you expect to come out unscathed-unjudged. We are not worthy to pay for our own sins.
It is not a humble thing to want to pay for your own sins. It is actually prideful to say you must pay. The Bible says to humble yourself before God. The law is holy but it has no power to make anyone holy. Only Christ can make us holy in the sight of God. We go before God IN Christ. It is a beautiful picture God has laid out in the Old Testament about the offerings. The hands laid on the animal sacrafice., sin being transferred by their hands onto the animal. Imputation is an amazing word to know about.
Grace has no part with the law.(man trying to do something to gain righteousness) Sarah said for Abraham to cast out that bond woman Hagar and her son., they were types of the law... Law and grace CANNOT exsist together.
Your works cannot count for any part of your salvation., that is denying the work of Jesus Christ on the cross to pay for all your sin. When He died over 2000 yrs ago, He died waaay before we ever sinned even one sin. He secured salvation for all who would come to Him.
Merry Christmas!!!
P
Heb. 11:1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
[SUP]2 Cor. 5:7 [/SUP](For we walk by faith, not by sight
[SUP]Rom. 1:16 [/SUP]For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
[SUP]1 John 5:4 [/SUP]For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
[SUP]1 John 5:13 [/SUP]These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
[SUP]1 John 3:19 [/SUP]And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
Faith alone is for God, because he see all thing.
Faith and works and truth is for our fellow believers. For if a person come to you or to your church, saying he or she is a believer in the gospel, then you look at their deeds/works to now if what they say is true. Because we cannot look into the hearts of man.
[SUP]James 2:18 [/SUP]Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
For faith being died, then there is no perfecting. There a beginning to believer life, then we need perfecting and that cannot come without doing works by your faith.
[SUP]James 2:22 [/SUP]Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
[SUP][SUP]Eph 1:10 [/SUP]For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
[/SUP]
[SUP]Eph 3:17 [/SUP]That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
[SUP]18 [/SUP]May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
[SUP][SUP][SUP]2 Cor. 5:7 [/SUP](For we walk by faith, not by sight[/SUP]
[/SUP][SUP][SUP]
Rom. 1:17 [/SUP]For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
[/SUP]
Your friend in Christ
pug32
[SUP]2 Cor. 5:7 [/SUP](For we walk by faith, not by sight
[SUP]Rom. 1:16 [/SUP]For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
[SUP]1 John 5:4 [/SUP]For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
[SUP]1 John 5:13 [/SUP]These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
[SUP]1 John 3:19 [/SUP]And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
Faith alone is for God, because he see all thing.
Faith and works and truth is for our fellow believers. For if a person come to you or to your church, saying he or she is a believer in the gospel, then you look at their deeds/works to now if what they say is true. Because we cannot look into the hearts of man.
[SUP]James 2:18 [/SUP]Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
For faith being died, then there is no perfecting. There a beginning to believer life, then we need perfecting and that cannot come without doing works by your faith.
[SUP]James 2:22 [/SUP]Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
[SUP][SUP]Eph 1:10 [/SUP]For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
[/SUP]
[SUP]Eph 3:17 [/SUP]That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
[SUP]18 [/SUP]May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
[SUP][SUP][SUP]2 Cor. 5:7 [/SUP](For we walk by faith, not by sight[/SUP]
[/SUP][SUP][SUP]
Rom. 1:17 [/SUP]For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
[/SUP]
Your friend in Christ
pug32
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does it make sense to you He says... if you endure...if you endure ...if you endure...chastening He deals with you as sons.....
does it make sense to you He says .... whereof all are partakers,.....so much for your understanding of scripture...it is those who do not endure the chastening who are bastards....
does it make sense to you He says .... whereof all are partakers,.....so much for your understanding of scripture...it is those who do not endure the chastening who are bastards....
and if one depart from the faith ...how can they live???
1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Colossians 1:20-24King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
[SUP]22 [/SUP]In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Colossians 1:20-24King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
[SUP]22 [/SUP]In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
K
Paul Himself said that he had a struggle with the flesh. We all do. We have pride do we not? We find ourselves judging others and so on. But my faith in standing before the Alfa and Omega, The Pure and Holy One and True God is in Jesus alone and what He did for me on Calvary. The NT explains that it is His righteousness not ours that Justifies us. It is Paul that explains in Romans that the righteous requirements of the Law was to show us that we could not do it and that we needed Jesus as our savior. The word repent in the Greek means to change ones mind. My mind and heart was changed when I believe in Jesus, for it was the Holy Spirit that showed me that I was in lack and needed a savior. This Christian walk is amazing for it is about my relationship with Jesus. And I love Him so that I don't want to sin and try not to, but I fail often as we all do. It is His love that compels me. Jesus also talks about getting the big log out of my own eyes first then I can take the speck out of my brother's eye. And Jesus also talked about forgiving one another 70 x 7, which really means an infinite number. The law required for someone caught in adultery to be stoned to death and what did Jesus do when Mary Magdalene was brought to Him by the Pharisees? He has mercy on Her. In another place in the NT is say if you see your Brother is in sin restore Him gently. How can we win the world to Jesus if we are too busy arguing and bitting at each other on points of theology? When my focus is on Jesus and His Amazing love I don't have animosity in me. Loving people where they are and showing them the love of God and allowing the Holy Spirit to do the work in my experience is far greater effective then arguing my point.
A
Let's look at 2 possibilities ...
sons >> righteousness lost >> need chastising >> receive chastising >> respond correctly >> regain righteousness
sons >> righteousness lost >> need chastising >> receive chastising >> respond incorrectly >> righteousness not regained
If NO sincere repentance from a son, then NO righteousness and NO salvation for the son.
sons >> righteousness lost >> need chastising >> receive chastising >> respond correctly >> regain righteousness
sons >> righteousness lost >> need chastising >> receive chastising >> respond incorrectly >> righteousness not regained
If NO sincere repentance from a son, then NO righteousness and NO salvation for the son.
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Paul: only faith saves (Ro 1:5, 3:20, 21, 28; 4:2, 5; 5:6, 8, 11, 13, 14, 15, 16, 5:1, 8, 10;
Gal 2:16, 3:11; Eph 2:8-9)
James: nature of saving faith is accompanied by obedience, or it is not saving faith
And do you have difficulty with analogies?
My statement:
Faith alone saves,
but faith is never alone.
is no more folly than the statement:
Elin alone knit the sweater,
but Elin is never alone.
Or, are you having problems with just grammar?
Gal 2:16, 3:11; Eph 2:8-9)
James: nature of saving faith is accompanied by obedience, or it is not saving faith
And do you have difficulty with analogies?
My statement:
Faith alone saves,
but faith is never alone.
is no more folly than the statement:
Elin alone knit the sweater,
but Elin is never alone.
Or, are you having problems with just grammar?
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we are saved by grace....you first need to understand this....and ask the question...how does grace save us?....it saves us through faith....now you need to ask another question ...how are we saved through faith...? through obedience to the faith...obedience to faith begins with repentance and baptism receiving the HS and following the Spirit...
the scripture still says ...faith alone is dead ...yea I checked it...[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Oh yea and James said he was alone....you and Calvin are still calling him a liar...
by the way... it is a fact that Elin alone knitted the sweater.....it is a fact that Elin is never alone....it is a fact faith alone is dead...that is a fact that makes faith is never alone a lie....which makes both you and Calvin liars....
the scripture still says ...faith alone is dead ...yea I checked it...[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Oh yea and James said he was alone....you and Calvin are still calling him a liar...
by the way... it is a fact that Elin alone knitted the sweater.....it is a fact that Elin is never alone....it is a fact faith alone is dead...that is a fact that makes faith is never alone a lie....which makes both you and Calvin liars....