Compassion and the Republican Party of the USA

[Ritter]

I forgot to tackle Reagan too. I'm going on a limb here to say he is the best president we've had since Silent Cal. Possibly Eisenhower.

Conservatives have sanctified his record a bit too much, because he was their standard bearer. Ultimately, if you want your government to fit in a bathtub, he was the best we were due to get at that level and at that time.

 

[RickyZ]

Try this:
Matthew 6
“Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. [SUP]2 [/SUP]“So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. [SUP]3 [/SUP]But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, [SUP]4 [/SUP]so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

I would contend though that Ricky should be careful in his judgment of the rich and response to the lure of materialism.

I donate to charities all the time. Are we supposed to brag about it as if it makes us morally superior? I mean, it is great for people to help others. I am sure we all agree, but it sorta gets to me when others have to announce all the good they've done. If that is how we as Christians are supposed to act then I really have some boasting to do.

Wow you guys make me laugh! I pondered long whether I should just go ahead and answer these charges (knowing they would be coming) or wait until they were made. You guys didn't dissapoint. You're very much like the cessationists:

"Show us where the gifts of the spirit have been worked"

"Well here are some incidents I witnessed or was involved with"

"Why you freakin' braggart!"

Lolol, rotfl! You guys are so predictable.

To be fair, the man was challenged to that effect and he rose up to prove he was walking his talk. Surely we can appreciate that much.

Thank you for that brief moment of sanity.


And yes, again to another charge, not all conservatives and rich peoplle are horders. I already conceded that. But we are talking generalities here, and generally, conservatives promote self-prosperity at the expense of others.

You guys go ahead and try to rationalize your support of greed. I know what the Bible says about it. End of story.

 

[RickyZ]

No poor person ever gave me a job.

No rich man ever hired me to produce a product people couldn't afford to buy.

This is pure covetness.

Yeah. Hording 95% of all new wealth sure is.

No rich guy being rich has ever made me poor. In fact its the opposite. People have to make the things they buy. The more they invest into their business, to make more money, the better the chance I have of getting a job.

You want to put a huge dent into poverty? Stop taxing the rich. You would see such a boom that all liberals would throw down their false idol, marxism, and see the light.

We've been stuffing cash into the pockets of the rich since the 1970's. According to your philosophy we should all be rolling in prosperity by now. Instead we have record unemployment, record underemployment, and record numbers on government assistance. The average worker hasn't seen an effective raise in over 30 years, even though executive compensation has skyrocketed in that time. Where is this trickle down effect you all love so much? It doesn't exist. Why? See the first point above.

Tell you what. Invite me to dinner and let me fill my plate first. I'll take 95% of what's offered. Then we'll see if you're left hungry or not.

Twist Christ's words all you want in your effort to justify your greed. Just be aware of what it's going to earn you on the other side.

 

[RickyZ]

You know this is all a moot point. The Bible foretold of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer, to the point where the world's economies and governments will fail, leading to the imposition of a one world antichrist led government and currency. It's going to happen. I just find it appalling that so many in the body of Christ support it so adamantly. You cannot serve both God and money, and you folks are FIRMLY entrenched on the money side.

OK. I declare dead horse time. Time to stop wasting my breath on the uninformed. Just as you wish, it will be. And it will be just what Christ spoke against.

 

[Elizabeth619]

You know this is all a moot point. The Bible foretold of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer, to the point where the world's economies and governments will fail, leading to the imposition of a one world antichrist led government and currency. It's going to happen. I just find it appalling that so many in the body of Christ support it so adamantly. You cannot serve both God and money, and you folks are FIRMLY entrenched on the money side.

OK. I declare dead horse time. Time to stop wasting my breath on the uninformed. Just as you wish, it will be. And it will be just what Christ spoke against.

Actually, the problem I see is greed, and not only the rich suffer from that. I came from money, but now I actually have an extremely low income. I am elligible for foodstamps, housing, obamaphones etc, but I do not have any of those things. I have learned how to take care of myself even with a limited income. So for me to support the "rich" in the circumstances of how I live would be completely insane.
I have experienced the wealthy side of life, and I have experienced the poor side of life, and I have seen greed on both sides.

 

[Ritter]

Wow you guys make me laugh! I pondered long whether I should just go ahead and answer these charges (knowing they would be coming) or wait until they were made. You guys didn't dissapoint. You're very much like the cessationists:

"Show us where the gifts of the spirit have been worked"

"Well here are some incidents I witnessed or was involved with"

"Why you freakin' braggart!"

Lolol, rotfl! You guys are so predictable.



Thank you for that brief moment of sanity.


And yes, again to another charge, not all conservatives and rich peoplle are horders. I already conceded that. But we are talking generalities here, and generally, conservatives promote self-prosperity at the expense of others.

You guys go ahead and try to rationalize your support of greed. I know what the Bible says about it. End of story.

Is prosperity always at the expense of others? No. Conservatives advocate for reducing the government to its proper jurisdiction. The government is ill-equipped to make the decisions you call for. That is the real thing at issue here.

Again, the issue is not how one values greed, but rather how one views the proper place of the State in matters of social welfare. You have not been able to explain how the Bible supports your point of view as it relates to government action.

No rich man ever hired me to produce a product people couldn't afford to buy.

Yeah. Hording 95% of all new wealth sure is.

We've been stuffing cash into the pockets of the rich since the 1970's. According to your philosophy we should all be rolling in prosperity by now. Instead we have record unemployment, record underemployment, and record numbers on government assistance. The average worker hasn't seen an effective raise in over 30 years, even though executive compensation has skyrocketed in that time. Where is this trickle down effect you all love so much? It doesn't exist. Why? See the first point above.

Tell you what. Invite me to dinner and let me fill my plate first. I'll take 95% of what's offered. Then we'll see if you're left hungry or not.

Twist Christ's words all you want in your effort to justify your greed. Just be aware of what it's going to earn you on the other side.

Another thing you have been unable to do is demonstrate the viability of your economic point of view. This whole "I take 95%of what is there" logic is far too simplistic to apply to economics. You don't take into account factors like production, investment, the exchange of goods and services.

That could partially explain your wrongheaded approach to the history of fiscal policy.

You know this is all a moot point. The Bible foretold of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer, to the point where the world's economies and governments will fail, leading to the imposition of a one world antichrist led government and currency. It's going to happen. I just find it appalling that so many in the body of Christ support it so adamantly. You cannot serve both God and money, and you folks are FIRMLY entrenched on the money side.

OK. I declare dead horse time. Time to stop wasting my breath on the uninformed. Just as you wish, it will be. And it will be just what Christ spoke against.

Nobody is proposing to serve money. What we refuse to serve is a tyrannical government capable of stealing from one group and giving to another based on arbitrary rules and political persuasions and thus exercise God-like power.

Again, you tout the Bible, but refuse to justify your claims with substantive exegesis. The Bible describes economic crisis before the return of Christ, nothing more. The cause of it is not mentioned. There is no "rich get richer, poor get poorer" scenario that anyone can point to in the Bible without some sort of Marxist hand to guide them.

No, this isn't dead horse time. Not by a long-shot. Not until you can prove your point without simplistic economic platitudes and an improper exegesis.

Here is my challenge: Justify forced redistribution of wealth on the part of the government with scripture. Chapter and verse. Also respond to my response to your interpretation of Matthew 19 and account for your eschatology.

If we are the ones who dance around the meaning of scripture, it is incumbent on you to enlighten us sufficiently. You have not.

All you have done is prove that you hold to a materialistic ideology that places so much emphasis on who has wealth and who does not that you fall into the same trap as those whom Jesus rebuked.

Again, if you are so Biblical, put your money where your mouth is and actually show us where we are wrong.

 

[Ritter]

I am not normally one to point out economic fallacies, but all Ricky Z has done is put up straw men.

I already conceded that. But we are talking generalities here, and generally, conservatives promote self-prosperity at the expense of others.

You guys go ahead and try to rationalize your support of greed. I know what the Bible says about it. End of story.

In other words.

Yeah, I recognize there are exceptions to my rule, but I am going to continue dismissing you all as supporters of the oligarchy.

Thanks for the understanding.

 

[zone]

Actually, the problem I see is greed, and not only the rich suffer from that. I came from money, but now I actually have an extremely low income. I am elligible for foodstamps, housing, obamaphones etc, but I do not have any of those things. I have learned how to take care of myself even with a limited income. So for me to support the "rich" in the circumstances of how I live would be completely insane.
I have experienced the wealthy side of life, and I have experienced the poor side of life, and I have seen greed on both sides.

good point Beth. the problem is greed.

if you are very big and very inward with very much and are very greedy, that's when we see the trouble.
big and powerful greedy has a way of growing, ya know?
at some point it's no longer about the money so yup...it is greed.

good call.

 

[zone]

Oh noes! Federal Reserve conspiracy!

JFK was no saint, just as the Federal Reserve was no saint. It's all part of the same group.

nobody is saying jfk was a 'saint', if we're using that loosely.
the federal reserve wasn't what got him killed.

and he was supposed to be part of the group - born into it....but he broke ranks.
there's a lot to it diggs....and ya, it's a monstrous, ruthless and monolithic conspiracy.

jfk isn't the only american leader to try to tell ppl about it.
it's just that "conspiracy theory" is the shield. that part was easy.

make outcasts of anyone daring to call it conspiracy.
old news.

 

[ServantStrike]

In drafting the Constitution, the expanded powers of the central government were meant to introduce functionality and long term stability among the states. George Washington was one of the strongest proponents of this partially due to his experiences in the War for Independence.

Though he was one of the more fervent champions of Federal power, he was also a Virginian and knew the importance of local community. He also knew what it was like to deal with an overbearing and distant legislature, this is what propelled him to take up arms to begin with. As such, he loved the idea of the Bill of Rights including the tenth amendment.

We cannot confuse the intentions of the Founders with the goals of those who would have us worship at the altar of state power. Those detractors you mentioned are detractors not out of honest disagreement over the historical record, but are ideologues who wish to propagate a lie to achieve a political goal.

If America will ever be restored, the Tenth Amendment must make a comeback.

You know I almost went with this quote from Jefferson last night. Ironically also discussing rebellion.

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure.

I forgot to tackle Reagan too. I'm going on a limb here to say he is the best president we've had since Silent Cal. Possibly Eisenhower.

Conservatives have sanctified his record a bit too much, because he was their standard bearer. Ultimately, if you want your government to fit in a bathtub, he was the best we were due to get at that level and at that time.

If you want your government to fit in a bath tub, there's only one clear choice.

Howard Taft.

 

[zone]

Reagan was not someone I care for.

That being said, I'm not surprised a Canadian socialist doesn't like him either.

LOL.

1) what wasn't to like about The Gipper though?

2) does canada have it's own brand of socialist? i aren't no socialist diggs. i was born in this country, raised in it, education takes a long time and de-conditioning (patriotism etc) takes even longer.

with that said - these are the facts on the ground: resources and standard of living - high.
population - low.
until this century - decent international profile.
size of the nation - enormous; choices for varying levels of "socialism"...just like y'all....depends on where you live.
kinda

if i want low taxes and rough and ready, booming industry - USA-clone, i move to Alberta.
if i want lazy and slow with everything socialized, but infrastructure and such low - i go to Sask.
if i want perfect climate climate; booming economy, i go to BC - higher taxes.
if i want grinding nothingness i go to Ontario (sorry bros)
i pass through the void of Manitoba to get there.
then i get to exotic and often fascist seperatist Quebec.
from there you have your various sundry Maritimers, and only the maritimers stay out there.

like...what do you want me to say?



it's awesome up here.
we don't elect our politicians - they're installed just like yours.
da game is rigged. you do the best you can.

I just don't understand your politics. How can one be so heeby jeebied about government, but then advocate large government for welfare and government control of the economy.

whoa...where'd all that come from?

don't tread on me diggs lol.

i am not FOR big govt for anyone. big govt kills.
i am for (in HUGE nations like ours) an impersonal strictly book-keeping federal govt service provider, regulated extremely tightly by the people to administer the revenues from taxes, BUT first and foremost for the industrialists and big capitalists BECAUSE...and here's the WHY - CAPITALISM as we know it is the EVIL TWIN of socialism.

it's captialism that has to be watched, because it is what give birth to the monster - totalitarianism.

anyone who think big (i mean huge cartel stuff) business is benign is naive.

I'm heeby jeebied about government, and that's why I want it so small I can drown it in a bathtub.

well then start by shutting off the Military Industrial Complex....there is ZERO reason for America to be at war.
y'all have more resources below ya than ya can use...but as Beth pointed out - the problem is GREED, and the big guys planning so far ahead without the people knowing what they're doing.

govt can't harm you if THEY ARE NOT ARMED - or more generally speaking, if you stop giving it permission.
its supposed to be YOU who is armed.

there is ZERO danger a govt given permission and a mandate to administer basic health care and school bussing and the like can hurt you without you seeing it coming.

this other stuff is a lose-lose.
but, it's been through divide and conquer - Red vs Blue; black vs white....when its' NEVER been about that.

its been about internationalist TAKING OVER.

your founding fathers told you it would happen.
and it did. it's happening up here too now, because we allow it. NAU etc.

what you gonna do?
you know Marx - you know Trotsky.
we read their stuff we know the plan.
you're not going to stop it unless you CLOSE THE BANKS DOWN - arrest the criminals...that's where the operation is headquartered.

but nobody wants to deal with that. bad stuff happens when ppl try to touch that thing...course it would.
its' DA MONEY, silly.

globalism comes OUT OF capitalism. the trickle-down stuff is just joe-six pack getting a car every 3 years and enough to eat. globalism (plainly is - a few families going for the whole thing) was always the plan.

pierre elliott trudeau was a literal card-carrying communist, installed.
but you've got your own just like him...you just don't know who they are.
they pretend to be conservatives.

 

[Ritter]

LOL.

1) what wasn't to like about The Gipper though?

2) does canada have it's own brand of socialist? i aren't no socialist diggs. i was born in this country, raised in it, education takes a long time and de-conditioning (patriotism etc) takes even longer.

with that said - these are the facts on the ground: resources and standard of living - high.
population - low.
until this century - decent international profile.
size of the nation - enormous; choices for varying levels of "socialism"...just like y'all....depends on where you live.
kinda

if i want low taxes and rough and ready, booming industry - USA-clone, i move to Alberta.
if i want lazy and slow with everything socialized, but infrastructure and such low - i go to Sask.
if i want perfect climate climate; booming economy, i go to BC - higher taxes.
if i want grinding nothingness i go to Ontario (sorry bros)
i pass through the void of Manitoba to get there.
then i get to exotic and often fascist seperatist Quebec.
from there you have your various sundry Maritimers, and only the maritimers stay out there.

like...what do you want me to say?



it's awesome up here.
we don't elect our politicians - they're installed just like yours.
da game is rigged. you do the best you can.



whoa...where'd all that come from?

don't tread on me diggs lol.

i am not FOR big govt for anyone. big govt kills.
i am for (in HUGE nations like ours) an impersonal strictly book-keeping federal govt service provider, regulated extremely tightly by the people to administer the revenues from taxes, BUT first and foremost for the industrialists and big capitalists BECAUSE...and here's the WHY - CAPITALISM as we know it is the EVIL TWIN of socialism.

it's captialism that has to be watched, because it is what give birth to the monster - totalitarianism.

anyone who think big (i mean huge cartel stuff) business is benign is naive.



well then start by shutting off the Military Industrial Complex....there is ZERO reason for America to be at war.
y'all have more resources below ya than ya can use...but as Beth pointed out - the problem is GREED, and the big guys planning so far ahead without the people knowing what they're doing.

govt can't harm you if THEY ARE NOT ARMED - or more generally speaking, if you stop giving it permission.
its supposed to be YOU who is armed.

there is ZERO danger a govt given permission and a mandate to administer basic health care and school bussing and the like can hurt you without you seeing it coming.

this other stuff is a lose-lose.
but, it's been through divide and conquer - Red vs Blue; black vs white....when its' NEVER been about that.

its been about internationalist TAKING OVER.

your founding fathers told you it would happen.
and it did. it's happening up here too now, because we allow it. NAU etc.

what you gonna do?
you know Marx - you know Trotsky.
we read their stuff we know the plan.
you're not going to stop it unless you CLOSE THE BANKS DOWN - arrest the criminals...that's where the operation is headquartered.

but nobody wants to deal with that. bad stuff happens when ppl try to touch that thing...course it would.
its' DA MONEY, silly.

globalism comes OUT OF capitalism. the trickle-down stuff is just joe-six pack getting a car every 3 years and enough to eat. globalism (plainly is - a few families going for the whole thing) was always the plan.

pierre elliott trudeau was a literal card-carrying communist, installed.
but you've got your own just like him...you just don't know who they are.
they pretend to be conservatives.

This is why I like you, Zone. You don't follow the bellowed commands of others.

I may not agree with you 100% of the time, but I'll never accuse you of jumping to conclusions based on ignorance.

 

[Ritter]

Zone is also able to provide Biblical justification for her convictions. Unlike someone else.

 

[Drett]

Zone is also able to provide Biblical justification for her convictions. Unlike someone else.

Threads would be a lot shorter if people stopped shooting from the hip so much and actually justified the position they take.

“Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn.”
― Benjamin Franklin

 

[Ritter]

If you want your government to fit in a bath tub, there's only one clear choice.

Howard Taft.

This is more clever than Jefferson's quote and should be a bumper sticker.

 

[Ritter]

Threads would be a lot shorter if people stopped shooting from the hip so much and actually justified the position they take.

“Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn.”
― Benjamin Franklin

Very true. That said, I thoroughly enjoyed this one. It's been a good ride.

 

[ServantStrike]

This is more clever than Jefferson's quote and should be a bumper sticker.

We should totally sell them.

 

[Drett]

Very true. That said, I thoroughly enjoyed this one. It's been a good ride.

Yes it reminds me of this.

Monty Python: The Argument Clinic: Director's Cut - YouTube

 

[Ritter]

All is well in the news forum tonight. Everyone is thinking of Dr. Strangelove and Monty Python.

I love you guys.

Well most of you.

 

[jimmydiggs]

LOL.

1) what wasn't to like about The Gipper though?

2) does canada have it's own brand of socialist? i aren't no socialist diggs. i was born in this country, raised in it, education takes a long time and de-conditioning (patriotism etc) takes even longer.

with that said - these are the facts on the ground: resources and standard of living - high.
population - low.
until this century - decent international profile.
size of the nation - enormous; choices for varying levels of "socialism"...just like y'all....depends on where you live.
kinda

if i want low taxes and rough and ready, booming industry - USA-clone, i move to Alberta.
if i want lazy and slow with everything socialized, but infrastructure and such low - i go to Sask.
if i want perfect climate climate; booming economy, i go to BC - higher taxes.
if i want grinding nothingness i go to Ontario (sorry bros)
i pass through the void of Manitoba to get there.
then i get to exotic and often fascist seperatist Quebec.
from there you have your various sundry Maritimers, and only the maritimers stay out there.

like...what do you want me to say?



it's awesome up here.
we don't elect our politicians - they're installed just like yours.
da game is rigged. you do the best you can.



whoa...where'd all that come from?

don't tread on me diggs lol.

i am not FOR big govt for anyone. big govt kills.
i am for (in HUGE nations like ours) an impersonal strictly book-keeping federal govt service provider, regulated extremely tightly by the people to administer the revenues from taxes, BUT first and foremost for the industrialists and big capitalists BECAUSE...and here's the WHY - CAPITALISM as we know it is the EVIL TWIN of socialism.

it's captialism that has to be watched, because it is what give birth to the monster - totalitarianism.

anyone who think big (i mean huge cartel stuff) business is benign is naive.



well then start by shutting off the Military Industrial Complex....there is ZERO reason for America to be at war.
y'all have more resources below ya than ya can use...but as Beth pointed out - the problem is GREED, and the big guys planning so far ahead without the people knowing what they're doing.

govt can't harm you if THEY ARE NOT ARMED - or more generally speaking, if you stop giving it permission.
its supposed to be YOU who is armed.

there is ZERO danger a govt given permission and a mandate to administer basic health care and school bussing and the like can hurt you without you seeing it coming.

this other stuff is a lose-lose.
but, it's been through divide and conquer - Red vs Blue; black vs white....when its' NEVER been about that.

its been about internationalist TAKING OVER.

your founding fathers told you it would happen.
and it did. it's happening up here too now, because we allow it. NAU etc.

what you gonna do?
you know Marx - you know Trotsky.
we read their stuff we know the plan.
you're not going to stop it unless you CLOSE THE BANKS DOWN - arrest the criminals...that's where the operation is headquartered.

but nobody wants to deal with that. bad stuff happens when ppl try to touch that thing...course it would.
its' DA MONEY, silly.

globalism comes OUT OF capitalism. the trickle-down stuff is just joe-six pack getting a car every 3 years and enough to eat. globalism (plainly is - a few families going for the whole thing) was always the plan.

pierre elliott trudeau was a literal card-carrying communist, installed.
but you've got your own just like him...you just don't know who they are.
they pretend to be conservatives.

You would like Ron Paul if it wasn't that you believe everyone is part of a conspiracy regardless of whether they are or aren't.