EBOLA PATIENT LET IN to the U.S.

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PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,945
8,664
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#41
To be faire its a 60-90% death rate where this virus is most common. Third-world trash holes where the nearest thing to medicine they have on average is probably some medicine woman's poultices. To say that american medical ingenuity/technology is no better than Africa's is a joke.
incorrect information being disseminated. This is a pretty good analysis of the diseases ability to kill:

We Still Don’t Know How Deadly the Ebola Outbreak in West Africa Will Be | FiveThirtyEight
 
S

Sirk

Guest
#43
Whoa Nelly! :) Considering all the disasters that have happened in recent years, I think it’s easy to jump into a “worst-apocalypse-scenario” mindset whenever something bad might happen. But we really need to be careful, because reacting too fast & strong can make us guilty of maligning servants who are being faithful to God’s work. Hear me out all the way before coming against what I'm saying- we're supposed to be on the same team after all :). Let's step back and look at this again, with the remembrance of Jesus’ warning that some would be found at His coming beating their fellow laborers, and not allow satan to lure us into that.

A good response toward our brother and sister will always be with love; we know they were infected while helping the dying, and bringing the gospel to them. They do deserve the best treatment; I know you say they should be given the best treatment in Africa, but let's re-examine the risks. We all have knives in the kitchen after all, which could make irrevocable changes to our lives, more irrevocable than an encounter with ebola. But none of us consider that a problem, as long as our precautions, knowledge and ability are appropriate for that setting.

Some posters have indicated concerns with the deadliness of ebola and it’s mode of transmission. For context, as bad as it is, realize that ebola isn’t the deadliest of viruses to exist on US soil. Americans are at risk for super-deadly diseases constantly, every day. Ebola also isn’t as contagious as other viruses (which our healthcare system is already used to handling) which means that this isn’t an entirely new concept, it’s just a different combination of the same risks we know how to deal with. Should we handle it with care? Obviously. Is Emory Hospital up to the task? It's probably one of the best prepared places in the world for it.

The study AgeOfKnowledge and Sirk linked to was also interesting (although the scgnews.com article was written simply to inflame reactions, the scholarly research it was based on was more level-headed). The research showed that healthy monkeys housed in cages next to infected monkeys did not contract ebola, but if the monkeys were housed next to infected pigs, they did catch the disease. From Sirk’s link, the author’s implication is that the transmission was made through “large droplets.” This isn’t anything mysterious or new. Ask any nurse- droplet precautions are standard knowledge in healthcare- it means you can get infected when tiny droplets of a person’s bodily fluids are sneezed, coughed, or otherwise sprayed at you (droplets also do not to travel more than a couple feet, which the author of the ebola study was quick to reiterate). Being a country boy, I can also say the study makes sense, considering the nasal/respiratory habits of pigs pretty much makes them droplet-producing machines (example), whereas the monkeys in the study (cynomolgus macaques) with their small noses and mouths probably didn’t produce many droplets (now if only they could get out of that poo-throwing habit).

Ebola scares us because it seems exotic, and once we know someone has it, it seems like their fate has been sealed. Rest assured, as we speak, the doctors working with Kent have a more healthy respect for that virus’ deadliness than any one of us on this board (you don’t have to remind a pilot it would be bad for his plane to go down). They understand the risks, and the precautions that must be taken, and they’re going way above standard droplet precautions in normal healthcare settings. So lets have a little faith, and pray for Kent and Nancy. I just read that Kent had an opportunity for a life-extending injection in Africa, but reserved it for Nancy instead. Pray for them.
I think this is a pretty good post but lets just put the thought process of our govt into perspective on this. Our Govt will knee jerk shut down flights into Tel Aviv but it won't put a stop to people from coming here from Africa???? Instead they have instructed airport officials to look for people with symptoms????

This whole thing wreaks and it is a nonsensical approach to this outbreak. It is my understanding that they were looking for 30k people who have possibly been exposed and that was a couple of days ago. What is that number now? 100k....200k? In reality, there should be no access to American soil to anyone who has been in Africa in the last month....no blue ribbon committees, no pointy headed lefttard rhetoric, just a ban on them coming here until they figure out how far this thing has spread. People will sing a different tune if this thing hits their back yard.

Ebola 'moving faster than efforts to control it' and WHO warn virus could spread | Mail Online
 
Nov 30, 2012
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#44
He assumed the risk, so...to hell with him? Cynicism has worked its way into many a Christian's heart. As for flowery speech being meaningless, buzz off. Christ used it. This man is an American citizen, so yes we all assume the risk to bring him home. It is only right. We all get angry and rage when illegals cross rivers and die trying to get to this land, because they would dare come here ruining the chances for others. And then in the next breath rage and be angry because the American government has chosen to risk it and bring an American back home. You cannot complain about other coming to take and steal the privileges of the American citizen, and then complain about an American citizen exercising such privilege. In essence, it would be the same as someone who had lived in Rome complaining that there aren't enough Romans, and then complaining because a Roman has appealed his case to Caesar.
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
#45
Tell that to the Dr. who contracted while in CDC attire, head to toe. They still have no idea how he and his assistant got it.

Research his story if you don't believe me.
I know his story. I've kept in touch with the story through his family. That is why I am irritated by a few people who seem to think we are about to enter some zombie Apocalypse because an ebola patient was flown to the states. Concern is one thing. I am concerned too, but to overreact the way some are is far from godly.

The fact is if there was an ebola outbreak these two patients being flown back would probably be the LAST ones to cause it since theyre in an isolated environment. People who travel to these places could contract it and come back to the states and spread it before we know it.

Patrick Sawyer died of Ebola and while infected had been on two different planes. This happened before anyone knew he had the virus. He could have very well spread the disease to passengers without knowing. No one is mentioning that, but freaking out over an isolated patient in the US. My guess is if an outbreak is going to happen then it won't happen from Brantly.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#46
No YOU said "to hell with him." I said there is an assumed risk in legal and moral theory (and reality) when a person chooses to engage in high risk activities.

I said, "He should have been given the best possible care IN AFRICA."

Reread my post since you're obviously blatantly misrepresenting what I said while interjecting lies you're fabricating into what I said: http://christianchat.com/christian-news-forum/96735-ebola-patient-let-u-s-2.html#post1636776

"First, Jesus healed lepers meaning neither He nor they had leprosy any longer: Jesus did not contract leprosy and then spread it.

Secondly, there is an assumed risk inherent with leaving the states to go work with Ebola patients. The public never assumed that risk. That risk is being forced upon them.

Thirdly, it's negligent homicide to transport infectious people into the U.S. who have a contagious disease with a 60%-90% mortality rate and no known cure if even one (1) person dies as a result. If it gets into the population and people begin dropping in waves then it's an unintentional form of democide (e.g. death by government).

I have no problem removing the flowery speech from the reality that it's stupid to import Ebola victims into the U.S. and if it costs Americans their lives then it's immoral and should be criminal for those responsible imo.

He should have been given the best possible care IN AFRICA."

Furthermore, your attempt to tie this to criminals who assume the risks of illegally entering our country only speaks to two wrongs do not make one right.

This post of yours can and should be dismissed for what it is: nonsense.


He assumed the risk, so...to hell with him? Cynicism has worked its way into many a Christian's heart. As for flowery speech being meaningless, buzz off. Christ used it. This man is an American citizen, so yes we all assume the risk to bring him home. It is only right. We all get angry and rage when illegals cross rivers and die trying to get to this land, because they would dare come here ruining the chances for others. And then in the next breath rage and be angry because the American government has chosen to risk it and bring an American back home. You cannot complain about other coming to take and steal the privileges of the American citizen, and then complain about an American citizen exercising such privilege. In essence, it would be the same as someone who had lived in Rome complaining that there aren't enough Romans, and then complaining because a Roman has appealed his case to Caesar.
 

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
5,051
1,493
113
#47
There are three reasons to bring these young adults back to the US alive, besides the fact that it is the Christian thing to do.

1) They have a very good chance of survival here. The treatment where they are housed is second to none.

2) We have immediate access to the live antibodies that their bodies are producing. These antibodies are key to finding a successful treatment both here and in Africa.

3) We can maintain a safe environment for the worlds best research teams to work. The faster that a treatment and preventative vaccine can be developed, the safer the world will be.

Do you want to take the 1 in 1 billion chance of one case will result from this process, or would you rather wait until we have an outbreak resulting from a very mobile people in the world?

Stop worrying about what may happen, and start praying for good things to happen.
 
S

Sirk

Guest
#48
There are three reasons to bring these young adults back to the US alive, besides the fact that it is the Christian thing to do.

1) They have a very good chance of survival here. The treatment where they are housed is second to none.

2) We have immediate access to the live antibodies that their bodies are producing. These antibodies are key to finding a successful treatment both here and in Africa.

3) We can maintain a safe environment for the worlds best research teams to work. The faster that a treatment and preventative vaccine can be developed, the safer the world will be.

Do you want to take the 1 in 1 billion chance of one case will result from this process, or would you rather wait until we have an outbreak resulting from a very mobile people in the world?

Stop worrying about what may happen, and start praying for good things to happen.
We have military bases with hospitals all over the world with state of the art equipment. They should set up something away from mainland US and send the teams there to work.
 
D

didymos

Guest
#49
The news is reporting that an Unnamed Ebola patient will be allowed into the U.S. to get treatment.....

Hope they can keep it contained....a break out would be perfect circumstance for Martial Law and or something stupid like that!
Famous last words: 'Trust me, I'm a doctor...' :rolleyes:

 

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
5,051
1,493
113
#50
We have military bases with hospitals all over the world with state of the art equipment. They should set up something away from mainland US and send the teams there to work.
Non of these facilities have the capabilities of Emory.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#52
Please name a single medical procedure conducted at Emory with respect to the Ebola virus that cannot be implemented outside of Emory.

There isn't one. Which means your assertion is false.


Non of these facilities have the capabilities of Emory.
 
A

Anonimous

Guest
#53
One of the Americans is Kent Brantly. He is a missionary who has devoted his life to helping the sick physically and spiritually. Maybe instead of worrying about an outbreak we should pray for these sick people that they survive this. I don't know anything about the other patient, but Kent is only 33 has a wife and two very young children. These kids could easily lose their father and some people are treating this man like he is an animal. His family is worried. They're hurting, and they're scared. Kent is also my youth ministers cousin, and I am pretty sure if they saw some of the comments here by other Christians they'd be upset. Please pray for these people. They need it.
Ditt0-I would also bet that Jesus wouldn't be too impressed by some of these comments by people are who are supposed to be His followers... or maybe I missed the scripture that showed Jesus avoiding the sick people He came into contact with. It is not up to us who we deal with. Most of the time I am embarrassed by many of the comments I see any more. Shameful...
 
A

Anonimous

Guest
#54
And our Lord touched the Lepers. He called us to do so also. Countless Christians have gone and worked in leper colonies and at lepresoriums. Christians have gone to take care of those who have influenza, typhoid, yellow fever, and worse diseases. It is Jesus who has called us hence time and again, pressing into our hearts that the simple truth of kindness and mercy are more of a medicine than a clean bed with clean sheets, and possibly can be more than a medicine than medicine. It is for this reason that I care not about this man being brought home. Don't just scream and berate our government because you do not know the man. It is a kindness and a mercy that he come home and receive treatment from the greatest hospitals and doctors in the world. As an American citizen, he is entitled to it. As a fellow human being, we are called to give it to him.
It's nice to see someone who has read the gospels...
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#55
If you want to embrace deadly viruses, go ahead. Get on a plane and fly over to Africa and get started. But you're not going to put your money where your mouth is, of course. That's just a lot of smoke. Obviously, you're just going to sit in your armchair and bad mouth everyone as un-Christ that loves their neighbor enough to follow Christ's command and protect them from deadly viruses.

God's instructions regarding quarantine to prevent the spread of leprosy and other infectious diseases are exactly the opposite of unchristian: they are moral and wise. In fact, God's life-saving instructions for quarantine were several thousand years ahead of their time. For example, the devastating black plague of the 14th century that claimed millions of lives was not broken until the church fathers in Vienna began encouraging the public to start following the guidelines as set forth in the Bible. The promising results in Vienna compelled other cities to follow suit and the dreaded plague was finally eradicated.

So what's your argument, that Jesus proved God was wrong with respect to quarantining people with dangerous infectious diseases because He had the power to heal them and did and therefore everyone that doesn't help spread deadly viruses is unchristian? Get a grip.

Jesus never spoke against God's societal provision for infectious disease. Jesus never spoke against quarantining people infected with deadly contagions to protect others from getting them which is exactly what God had instructed.


Ditt0-I would also bet that Jesus wouldn't be too impressed by some of these comments by people are who are supposed to be His followers... or maybe I missed the scripture that showed Jesus avoiding the sick people He came into contact with. It is not up to us who we deal with. Most of the time I am embarrassed by many of the comments I see any more. Shameful...
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#56
First of all countless Christians have not gone and worked in leper colonies and at leprosariums. Their number is finite, not infinite. Secondly, none of those Christians who volunteered to work amongst those with deadly diseases opposed quarantine as a preventive measure in helping to prevent their spread. Why? Because doing so would be to oppose Biblical teaching with respect to deadly diseases and their spread.

Perhaps you could read the Bible yourself and a few history books on the topic instead of making false assertions that Christians historically championed the spread of infectious disease contrary to God's provision for them and anyone that doesn't do likewise is unchristian.

You're WRONG.


It's nice to see someone who has read the gospels...
 
Nov 30, 2012
2,396
26
0
#57
No YOU said "to hell with him." I said there is an assumed risk in legal and moral theory (and reality) when a person chooses to engage in high risk activities.

I said, "He should have been given the best possible care IN AFRICA."

Reread my post since you're obviously blatantly misrepresenting what I said while interjecting lies you're fabricating into what I said: http://christianchat.com/christian-news-forum/96735-ebola-patient-let-u-s-2.html#post1636776

"First, Jesus healed lepers meaning neither He nor they had leprosy any longer: Jesus did not contract leprosy and then spread it.

Secondly, there is an assumed risk inherent with leaving the states to go work with Ebola patients. The public never assumed that risk. That risk is being forced upon them.

Thirdly, it's negligent homicide to transport infectious people into the U.S. who have a contagious disease with a 60%-90% mortality rate and no known cure if even one (1) person dies as a result. If it gets into the population and people begin dropping in waves then it's an unintentional form of democide (e.g. death by government).

I have no problem removing the flowery speech from the reality that it's stupid to import Ebola victims into the U.S. and if it costs Americans their lives then it's immoral and should be criminal for those responsible imo.

He should have been given the best possible care IN AFRICA."

Furthermore, your attempt to tie this to criminals who assume the risks of illegally entering our country only speaks to two wrongs do not make one right.

This post of yours can and should be dismissed for what it is: nonsense.
It doesn't matter that Christ healed them. He called us to take care of them. St. Francis kissed the fingers and foreheads of lepers. St. Damien the Leper in the prime of his life agreed to be quarantined on an island of Lepers called Molokai. The Order of St. Benedict created the Houses of St. Giles for lepers. The lepresarium in Louisiana called Carville was founded by Christians seeking to help them. Mother Teresa took in those who were dying of influenza, typhoid, syphillis, and leprosy. So, your response truly is the straw man here. You ignored my point that we are called to go out and visit and care for the sick. Our country has the BEST hospitals in the world, with more technological advancements than anywhere else. His chance at survival leaped the moment he cross the border into his own homeland.


Also, you seem to be ignoring the fact that the man is an American citizen, and he has certain privileges. Those privileges include being taken care of by his own people, and if necessary to die among his own people. So, you truly are the one to say to hell with him, he might infect me. That is the reaction you are having. Its one of survival, however, not of mercy.
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
#58
How about we just ship Brantly back to Africa. Who cares who dies over there. Who cares if he has no chance of survival there. No one really cares about an outbreak... as long as it doesn't happen in America. Who cares who dies.........Well isn't that just the Christian way of looking at it?
 
S

sunburn

Guest
#59
How about we just ship Brantly back to Africa. Who cares who dies over there. Who cares if he has no chance of survival there. No one really cares about an outbreak... as long as it doesn't happen in America. Who cares who dies.........Well isn't that just the Christian way of looking at it?
A survival instinct perhaps, Elisabeth….
Its surprising some americans don't trust their health and safety systems…science…advanced technologies...
Have some faith people…lol
:)

Ps: i agree let's pray for this man.
 
Jun 18, 2014
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#60
Famous last words of many who woke up dead! HAHA I am not worried Jesus Chic...not even a bit as I learned along time ago two things that really helped me in my life and they are...

1. Some things are beyond my ability to control
2. Why worry about something that hasn't happened yet

:)
If you're not worried, why say worried remarks? 'Hope they can contain it' ..... 'martial law' ....