The Insanity and the Hypocrisy

[Ugly]

uh...I've known many children who listened well

really

I disagree that saving the child's life is ALL that matters and I am not sure why you would post that to me? I am pretty sure I didn't say the gorilla should have come first

personally, I don't think the child's life was in grave danger, but I guess one would have to know something about the behavior of silverbacks

at any rate, of course you choose the child...any time, day or place...

I'm not sure why you think no children listen well ...

The zoo keepers have made it Very Clear that the risk to the child was very real. They also said that, with knowing the behaviors of Silverbacks and the behaviors being displayed by this gorilla, (which only a small handful of people in this country have even the slightest idea about) it was a clear there was a large threat to the childs safety. They also said if they had to go back and redo this situation they would have killed the gorilla again. If you watch the video the gorilla dragged the boy, face down, by his leg, yanking on it very hard and charging through the water at a fast rate, with the kid being dragged behind him like an old blanket.

I remember, years ago, a similar video of a child that fell into a gorilla cage. A gorilla approached the child, then gently picked it up and checked to make sure the child was ok. Then held the child protectively until the handlers could take the child away.

Compare the behaviors of the two and ask yourself, if your child was in the hands of one of these gorillas, which one would make you most fearful of losing your child?

The zoo pays money to buy, maintain, feed these animals. They spend money on maintaining the health of these animals. The animals are what draw people in and help the zoo make money. Shooting one of them dead, in full view of a large group of guests, would be counterproductive to the zoos need to bring in customers and money. Clearly if they felt a need to waste all of the money spent already, to kill an animal in front of customers, they must have had an entirely valid reason.

 

[tanakh]

This story is all over the news. Just about everyone on FB is posting about Harambe the gorilla and his "murder". I didn't hear about this till later in the weekend. The details still seem a bit fuzzy. So far Ive managed to ascertain that a little boy got away from his mother, got under a rail and fell off a cliff into the gorilla enclosure. The gorilla pulled the boy through the water and fearing for the childs life zoo workers put the gorilla down. Clue me in if I missed something.

So I popped in on FB and see all these memes about this "murdered" gorilla. People are outraged that the animal was killed. They blame the mother and say it was her fault and want her charged. There is a petition on Change.org signed by 100,000 people called "Justice for Harambe". Now I admit I was raised old fashioned compared to how people think today but I cannot get my mind around this. First off if you have children you know how fast they move. Take eyes off them for a moment and they're gone. I read that the mother had several children in her care. Secondly,this was an animal,not a person. You kill an animal,you murder a person. The childs life was in danger, that was the call that the zoo keepers made. So,ok, sad that a gorilla died. But people are mourning this like it was a human being. Seriously?!

We have a petition for a blasted gorilla and no one has said anything about the girl that was strangled in a Chicago bathroom by a man. I dont see anyone outraged. I didn't see it all over FB. Barely saw it on the news. No one is talking about it around the cooler at work. Why not? Is an animal more important than a child?! There is silence because transgender is a PC issue. The danger of men faking transgender and harming women and children doesn't count because its more important that a transgender isn't embarrassed when going to the restroom. Am I the only one who sees this as insanity?! That a gorilla is more important than the safety of a child. That being PC is more important than the safety of women and children.They have no problem with abortion,but dont "murder" a gorilla. Unbelievable what this country has come to. Ive been holding this in but when I saw all the "poor innocent gorilla" memes on FB today I lost it. I think I was born in the wrong generation. smh I dont understand it.

Haven't people heard of using darts to sedate animals? I am not surprised at the outcome because shooting first and asking questions later seems to be the norm. How many unarmed people are killed or seriously injured by the trigger happy in
the US an animal has little chance. Apes protect their young it s debatable whether this one may have been trying to harm or save the child. In either case I feel it could have been handled better.

 

[p_rehbein]

Haven't people heard of using darts to sedate animals? I am not surprised at the outcome because shooting first and asking questions later seems to be the norm. How many unarmed people are killed or seriously injured by the trigger happy in
the US an animal has little chance. Apes protect their young it s debatable whether this one may have been trying to harm or save the child. In either case I feel it could have been handled better.

Sedation takes time to have it's full effect.......maybe those on site did not believe it wise to take that route? It appears to me that they did have their priorities in order.......that being the SAFETY of the child FIRST and the well being of the animal second. I know, it's a weird concept to actually believe a human life is worthy of saving.....oh, no, wait.......

For God so loved the world, that He GAVE His only begotten Son..........

 

[Ingerlund]

This story is all over the news. Just about everyone on FB is posting about [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]Harambe the gorilla and his "murder". I didn't hear about this till later in the weekend. The details still seem a bit fuzzy. So far Ive managed to ascertain that a little boy got away from his mother, got under a rail and fell off a cliff into the gorilla enclosure. The gorilla pulled the boy through the water and fearing for the childs life zoo workers put the gorilla down. Clue me in if I missed something.

So I popped in on FB and see all these memes about this "murdered" gorilla. People are outraged that the animal was killed. They blame the mother and say it was her fault and want her charged. There is a petition on Change.org signed by 100,000 people called "Justice for Harambe". Now I admit I was raised old fashioned compared to how people think today but I cannot get my mind around this. First off if you have children you know how fast they move. Take eyes off them for a moment and they're gone. I read that the mother had several children in her care. Secondly,this was an animal,not a person. You kill an animal,you murder a person. The childs life was in danger, that was the call that the zoo keepers made. So,ok, sad that a gorilla died. But people are mourning this like it was a human being. Seriously?!

We have a petition for a blasted gorilla and no one has said anything about the girl that was strangled in a Chicago bathroom by a man. I dont see anyone outraged. I didn't see it all over FB. Barely saw it on the news. No one is talking about it around the cooler at work. Why not? Is an animal more important than a child?! There is silence because transgender is a PC issue. The danger of men faking transgender and harming women and children doesn't count because its more important that a transgender isn't embarrassed when going to the restroom. Am I the only one who sees this as insanity?! That a gorilla is more important than the safety of a child. That being PC is more important than the safety of women and children.They have no problem with abortion,but dont "murder" a gorilla. Unbelievable what this country has come to. Ive been holding this in but when I saw all the "poor innocent gorilla" memes on FB today I lost it. I think I was born in the wrong generation. smh I dont understand it.[/FONT]

I have to agree with you, mostly. I mean, I can see two or free or four sides of it. Silverback gorrillas are especially endangered; it IS poor parenting to have your back turned long enough for your kid to scramble into a gorilla enclosure; and really, these big beautiful animals shouldn't be held captive in small enclosures at all. They need roaming space aplenty to be healthy. People can argue about whether or not the gorilla wanted to hurt the child (personally I think he was being both possessive and protective of the child. A more violent gorilla would have killed that kid instantly. If it had been a female, she probably would have protected and given back the child). At the same, a child is a child; he was distressed, as was his mother I'm sure; the zookeepers are trained to understand Harambe's behaviour and they made the call to kill the gorrilla. Whether or not theycould have tranquilized it, I'm pretty sure they considered the option and for whatever reason decided not to. Unfortunately the gorilla's dead, but the child is safe, and I'm sure the mother is both grateful and regretful. For me that's enough. I don't get people who call for her head on a plate. It's not right. Part of the blame has to lie with the zoo, anyway. There should NOT be ANY risk of children or adults accessing enclosures. They should be secured properly with impassible fencing.

 

[Oncefallen]

Haven't people heard of using darts to sedate animals?

Every report I've heard has said that tranquilizer darts could have taken as much as 5 minutes to take effect in the gorilla's agitated state.

 

[Rosesrock]

Here is a fb post of an ex silverback trainer. Its enlighting if we're still on questions about was this gorilla dangerous. What something looks like ave what reality is ... Are two separate things.

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1203379103029809&id=100000731932790&set=a.136952966339100.18704.100000731932790

I am going to try to clear up a few things that have been weighing on me about Harambe and the Cinci Zoo since I read the news this afternoon.
I have worked with Gorillas as a zookeeper while in my twenties (before children) and they are my favorite animal (out of dozens) that I have ever worked closely with. I am gonna go ahead and list a few facts, thoughts and opinions for those of you that aren't familiar with the species itself, or how a zoo operates in emergency situations.

Now Gorillas are considered 'gentle giants' at least when compared with their more aggressive cousins the chimpanzee, but a 400+ pound male in his prime is as strong as roughly 10 adult humans. What can you bench press? OK, now multiply that number by ten. An adult male silverback gorilla has one job, to protect his group. He does this by bluffing or intimidating anything that he feels threatened by.

Gorillas are considered a Class 1 mammal, the most dangerous class of mammals in the animal kingdom, again, merely due to their size and strength. They are grouped in with other apes, tigers, lions, bears, etc.
While working in an AZA accredited zoo with Apes, keepers DO NOT work in contact with them. Meaning they do NOT go in with these animals. There is always a welded mesh barrier between the animal and the humans.
In more recent decades, zoos have begun to redesign enclosures, removing all obvious caging and attempting to create a seamless view of the animals for the visitor to enjoy watching animals in a more natural looking habitat. *this is great until little children begin falling into exhibits* which of course can happen to anyone, especially in a crowded zoo-like setting.

I have watched this video over again, and with the silverback's postering, and tight lips, it's pretty much the stuff of any keeper's nightmares, and I have had MANY while working with them. This job is not for the complacent. Gorillas are kind, curious, and sometimes silly, but they are also very large, very strong animals. I always brought my OCD to work with me. checking and rechecking locks to make sure my animals and I remained separated before entering to clean.

I keep hearing that the Gorilla was trying to protect the boy. I do not find this to be true. Harambe reaches for the boys hands and arms, but only to position the child better for his own displaying purposes.
Males do very elaborate displays when highly agitated, slamming and dragging things about. Typically they would drag large branches, barrels and heavy weighted balls around to make as much noise as possible. Not in an effort to hurt anyone or anything (usually) but just to intimidate. It was clear to me that he was reacting to the screams coming from the gathering crowd.

Harambe was most likely not going to separate himself from that child without seriously hurting him first (again due to mere size and strength, not malicious intent) Why didn't they use treats? well, they attempted to call them off exhibit (which animals hate), the females in the group came in, but Harambe did not. What better treat for a captive animal than a real live kid!
They didn't use Tranquilizers for a few reasons, A. Harambe would've taken too long to become immobilized, and could have really injured the child in the process as the drugs used may not work quickly enough depending on the stress of the situation and the dose B. Harambe would've have drowned in the moat if immobilized in the water, and possibly fallen on the boy trapping him and drowning him as well.
Many zoos have the protocol to call on their expertly trained dart team in the event of an animal escape or in the event that a human is trapped with a dangerous animal. They will evaluate the scene as quickly and as safely as possible, and will make the most informed decision as how they will handle the animal.
I can't point fingers at anyone in this situation, but we need to really evaluate the safety of the animal enclosures from the visitor side. Not impeding that view is a tough one, but there should be no way that someone can find themselves inside of an animal's exhibit.
I know one thing for sure, those keepers lost a beautiful, and I mean gorgeous silverback and friend. I feel their loss with them this week. As educators and conservators of endangered species, all we can do is shine a light on the beauty and majesty of these animals in hopes to spark a love and a need to keep them from vanishing from our planet. Child killers, they are not. It's unfortunate for the conservation of the species, and the loss of revenue a beautiful zoo such as Cinci will lose. tragedy all around.

*me working (very carefully) with a 400+ pound silverback circa 2009

 

[ChristineInCleveland]

This story is all over the news. Just about everyone on FB is posting about [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]Harambe the gorilla and his "murder". I didn't hear about this till later in the weekend. The details still seem a bit fuzzy. So far Ive managed to ascertain that a little boy got away from his mother, got under a rail and fell off a cliff into the gorilla enclosure. The gorilla pulled the boy through the water and fearing for the childs life zoo workers put the gorilla down. Clue me in if I missed something.

So I popped in on FB and see all these memes about this "murdered" gorilla. People are outraged that the animal was killed. They blame the mother and say it was her fault and want her charged. There is a petition on Change.org signed by 100,000 people called "Justice for Harambe". Now I admit I was raised old fashioned compared to how people think today but I cannot get my mind around this. First off if you have children you know how fast they move. Take eyes off them for a moment and they're gone. I read that the mother had several children in her care. Secondly,this was an animal,not a person. You kill an animal,you murder a person. The childs life was in danger, that was the call that the zoo keepers made. So,ok, sad that a gorilla died. But people are mourning this like it was a human being. Seriously?!

We have a petition for a blasted gorilla and no one has said anything about the girl that was strangled in a Chicago bathroom by a man. I dont see anyone outraged. I didn't see it all over FB. Barely saw it on the news. No one is talking about it around the cooler at work. Why not? Is an animal more important than a child?! There is silence because transgender is a PC issue. The danger of men faking transgender and harming women and children doesn't count because its more important that a transgender isn't embarrassed when going to the restroom. Am I the only one who sees this as insanity?! That a gorilla is more important than the safety of a child. That being PC is more important than the safety of women and children.They have no problem with abortion,but dont "murder" a gorilla. Unbelievable what this country has come to. Ive been holding this in but when I saw all the "poor innocent gorilla" memes on FB today I lost it. I think I was born in the wrong generation. smh I dont understand it.[/FONT]

This is EXACTLY how I feel! Very well said.

 

[Sirk]

.....................

 

[ChristineInCleveland]

Dirk has it right.... although Kaylagrl posted some very valid points that go to the heart of the story: these people who value animal life over humans are a glaring reminder of the growing moral depravity in our nation.

 

[Sirk]

Dirk has it right.... although Kaylagrl posted some very valid points that go to the heart of the story: these people who value animal life over humans are a glaring reminder of the growing moral depravity in our nation.

Something like 3000 unborn babies are killed in the womb everyday and no one bats an eye. BTW, the gorilla wasn't protecting the child, he was displaying it as a prize.

 

[kaylagrl]

Haven't people heard of using darts to sedate animals? I am not surprised at the outcome because shooting first and asking questions later seems to be the norm. How many unarmed people are killed or seriously injured by the trigger happy in
the US an animal has little chance. Apes protect their young it s debatable whether this one may have been trying to harm or save the child. In either case I feel it could have been handled better.

All the experts have said that a dart would only agitate the animal and it can take up to ten minutes for a dart to take effect. The child was in imminent danger,that is clear in the video. The police are investigating the situation. Until we know what they find we really cant comment on the situation. We only know that killing the animal was necessary.

 

[kaylagrl]

View attachment 151400









.....................

Like someone said on the news last night,this is easy to get fake outraged about. It requires nothing of the person, just memes on FB and twitter posts. Just armchair experts that know nothing about the situation. They aren't eyewitnesses,they arent experts.

 

[Yet]

Years ago some flys were accidentally killed in a science project in a school. Peta was outraged that the poor little innocent flys died. Peta has no problem whatsoever with the buthering of little boys and girls.
So there you go! Stinky flys have more value than humans! I have lived to long!

And what is FB and what is meme? I r a dummy.

 

[kaylagrl]

Years ago some flys were accidentally killed in a science project in a school. Peta was outraged that the poor little innocent flys died. Peta has no problem whatsoever with the buthering of little boys and girls.
So there you go! Stinky flys have more value than humans! I have lived to long!

And what is FB and what is meme? I r a dummy.

They are pictures with words about whatever the subject of the day is,like the pic I posted above.

 

[kaylagrl]

Years ago some flys were accidentally killed in a science project in a school. Peta was outraged that the poor little innocent flys died. Peta has no problem whatsoever with the buthering of little boys and girls.
So there you go! Stinky flys have more value than humans! I have lived to long!

And what is FB and what is meme? I r a dummy.

Actually this is the one I should have posted...




You're not a dummy, btw,plenty of stuff out there Ive never heard of either.

 

[ChristineInCleveland]

Actually this is the one I should have posted...

View attachment 151477


You're not a dummy, btw,plenty of stuff out there Ive never heard of either.

Right on!!

 

[Dude653]

People are angry a gorilla which is an endangered species had to be killed due to someone else's negligence.

 

[Dude653]

Guerillas gonna be like....

 

[ChristineInCleveland]

People are angry a gorilla which is an endangered species had to be killed due to someone else's negligence.

First one negligent is the zoo, for not securing the enclosure against any breach by little humans, clever enough to find an opening!

 

[kaylagrl]

People are angry a gorilla which is an endangered species had to be killed due to someone else's negligence.

Thats a judgement call. Until the police finish the investigation we don't know. Kids are fast and you cant have your eyes on them 24/7.