catholic religion??

[Widdekind]

Does not James say "show faith by works" (paraphrase) ? Yes, God "calls", or "elects", some humans on earth, to receive Holy Spirit; and they are then Divinely Guided to do God's Will, i.e. (supposedly) "good" works. So,

faith => works

And so, works testify to faith. Never-the-less, some could mimic "good" works, for "bad" reasons. But, all who have faith, do "good" works. So, whilst some of those who do "good" works may be false, none of those who do not do "good" works are true.

People who do "bad" are not Christians; and even some of those who do "good" may be fakes. But works cannot be set aside, that would be "bad" behavior.

 

[Widdekind]

According to the Orthodox Study Bible, distinction is drawn between "veneration" of Saints; and (full-fledged) "worship" due to God alone.

According to Revelation 5, the "24 Elders" (and the 4 watchful Beasts) "were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people". Thus, the "Elders", surely symbolizing the Patriarchs & Apostles, convey the prayers of the faithful, to God. The Church does have a hierarchy of Holiness. According to Rev 5, Church "Elders" somehow convey prayers to God.

It shows enormous ignorance of the Word of God, Yeshua, to have to ask about whether or not we should pray to saints or to ask those who sleep to pray for us.

Daniel and John were both told not to bow to the Angel of the Lord or do obeissance to him, because he said I am a servant too do not do that, worship God. If the Angel of the Lord says this and knows this, how much more the true saints and Mary, the greatest blessed of all woman, know this.

Do not insult the family in Jesus Christ, not the Mother of His Flesh, nor the family in His Blood. Keep your papist traditions taught as commandment from God, they are blasphemy and apostasy.

As for the catholic rosary, it is like the pagans making long prayers and repeating words rote, neither understanding what they are saying nor understanding the Word.

Worship God, believe the One Who died for your sins. Yeshua is Lord, amen

 

[JaumeJ]

As believers of the Word, we must make an infinite distinction between man or pope named saints and the saints of Yahweh.

I believe a large number of those who are called saints are indeed, but to accept all man or pope named saints as true is foolishness in the sight of the Father and His family.

We are to Honor the Father in Yeshua while we are on our Way.

As for the teachings in Revelation, they are not necessarily referring to the church in the flesh rather in the spirit. If anyone sees it in the flesh, where is that assembly now? Revelation is greatly mystery to this day, though much is teaching, that which is prophecy is definitely yet mystery, again, unless someone knows the person who is able to explain it all and interpret the prophecies.

I believe Daniel, Revelation, Isaiah, and all the prophets of Yahweh, but I would never put my imagination before the revealing from the Holy Spirit.

According to the Orthodox Study Bible, distinction is drawn between "veneration" of Saints; and (full-fledged) "worship" due to God alone.

According to Revelation 5, the "24 Elders" (and the 4 watchful Beasts) "were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people". Thus, the "Elders", surely symbolizing the Patriarchs & Apostles, convey the prayers of the faithful, to God. The Church does have a hierarchy of Holiness. According to Rev 5, Church "Elders" somehow convey prayers to God.

 

[Widdekind]

The Apostle Peter evangelized with his wife, with whom he was crucified (in Rome circa 66 AD)

• Jesus healed Peter's mother-in-law (Matt 8)
• Apostles & James & Peter traveled with wives (1 Cor 9)
• Bishops & Deacons have wives (1 Tim 3)

If the Apostles (and Bishops) had wives, 2000 years ago, when the New Testament was transmitted to humans on earth; then when was a "Newer-than-New" Testament received at earth, invalidating Matt 8 / 1 Cor 9 / 1 Tim 3 ?

At the Council of Jerusalem circa 50 AD, the Bishop, James, judged that "we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God" (Acts 15). Why make things difficult, for Bishops, Priests, etc. ?

The Apostles had wives. They are the "foundation" upon which all other Christians follow (Eph 2). (The Apostles are the 12 special "foundation stones" in the Spiritual "New Jerusalem" Temple-City symbolizing the Church, Rev 21.) If the Apostles had wives, whom then cannot (and why, on what Authority) ?

You say, "by the Holy Spirit". Perhaps. "God in heaven" could transmit Holy Spirit to earth, at any time, and nothing humans can do could stop the same. But, per the Holy Spirit transmissions, which gave humanity the New Testament, per those "Divinely Inspired" Scriptures alone... the Apostles, Bishops, Deacons, brothers of Jesus, readers of Paul's epistles, i.e. the whole early Church, had wives.

But according to the Bible, they had good reason for making it Mandatory. Remember, men and women know full well that they cannot marry after joining the monastery or convent. They give their full consent. The Catholic Church doesn't force anybody to become a priest, brother. They just say that if they do, they must not marry. But the Church doesn't say that they cannot preach if they don't become priests. They can still preach. Or they can even become deacons. What is people's problem with the Church's decision on this? It's guidance obviously comes from the Bible, and the Holy Spirit.

 

[Widdekind]

According to Rom 8 & Heb 7, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus Christ, "intercede" for Christians. The Greek word for "intercede" (entygchano) is not used (in a Religious sense) for anybody else. So, in some sense, Jesus Christ is continually praying, to God, on behalf of others. But that is not the same, as praying to others, en route to God. The Lord's Prayer is, presumably, the archetypal prayer; and therein, Christians communicate directly to "Father in heaven". On earth, humans can pray directly to God, about other people; but nobody prays to other people, about God. The communication is (supposedly) "God-to-ground", not "ground-to-ground(-to-God)".

As believers of the Word, we must make an infinite distinction between man or pope named saints and the saints of Yahweh.

I believe a large number of those who are called saints are indeed, but to accept all man or pope named saints as true is foolishness in the sight of the Father and His family.

We are to Honor the Father in Yeshua while we are on our Way.

As for the teachings in Revelation, they are not necessarily referring to the church in the flesh rather in the spirit. If anyone sees it in the flesh, where is that assembly now? Revelation is greatly mystery to this day, though much is teaching, that which is prophecy is definitely yet mystery, again, unless someone knows the person who is able to explain it all and interpret the prophecies.

I believe Daniel, Revelation, Isaiah, and all the prophets of Yahweh, but I would never put my imagination before the revealing from the Holy Spirit.

 

[JaumeJ]

According to Rom 8 & Heb 7, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus Christ, "intercede" for Christians. The Greek word for "intercede" (entygchano) is not used (in a Religious sense) for anybody else. So, in some sense, Jesus Christ is continually praying, to God, on behalf of others. But that is not the same, as praying to others, en route to God. The Lord's Prayer is, presumably, the archetypal prayer; and therein, Christians communicate directly to "Father in heaven". On earth, humans can pray directly to God, about other people; but nobody prays to other people, about God. The communication is (supposedly) "God-to-ground", not "ground-to-ground(-to-God)".

As believers of the Word, we must make an infinite distinction between man or pope named saints and the saints of Yahweh.

I believe a large number of those who are called saints are indeed, but to accept all man or pope named saints as true is foolishness in the sight of the Father and His family.

We are to Honor the Father in Yeshua while we are on our Way.

As for the teachings in Revelation, they are not necessarily referring to the church in the flesh rather in the spirit. If anyone sees it in the flesh, where is that assembly now? Revelation is greatly mystery to this day, though much is teaching, that which is prophecy is definitely yet mystery, again, unless someone knows the person who is able to explain it all and interpret the prophecies.

I believe Daniel, Revelation, Isaiah, and all the prophets of Yahweh, but I would never put my imagination before the revealing from the Holy Spirit.

It seems I am in complete agreement with your posted replies on this thread, at least the ones you include my posts, however your replies do not seem to have any correlation to what I have posted. This does not bother me, but it should be pointed out.

 

[Widdekind]

i'm skimming the thread to save time

as far as "True" vs. "official" Saints, to the extent any being knows, "God in heaven" knows who are the "True" Saints. But, why oppose Church tradition, unless necessary ? If millions of Christians say some charitable person was a "Saint", then why quibble ? Matt 7:1 ?

 

[JaumeJ]

i'm skimming the thread to save time

as far as "True" vs. "official" Saints, to the extent any being knows, "God in heaven" knows who are the "True" Saints. But, why oppose Church tradition, unless necessary ? If millions of Christians say some charitable person was a "Saint", then why quibble ? Matt 7:1 ?

The response to this thinking is quite direct and obvious. If people are put into a position to name saints by vote, this would make our Father's opinion secondary at best, and this is an abomination, to practice or to think.

 

[Widdekind]

so by what earthly means, would humans "guess" who were true Saints ?

The response to this thinking is quite direct and obvious. If people are put into a position to name saints by vote, this would make our Father's opinion secondary at best, and this is an abomination, to practice or to think.

 

[JaumeJ]

It is incumbent on me to ask you if you are trolling.

Are you?

You must know anyone who calls on Yeshua, Jesus, in spirit and truth is sanctified by the Blood of Yahweh's Lamb. All who profess to believe are saints.

They are designated such by their own faith in the Lamb by God, not by man.

so by what earthly means, would humans "guess" who were true Saints ?

 

[Maynard]

Beautiful!
[video=youtube_share;9DvPSl0EuA4]http://youtu.be/9DvPSl0EuA4[/video]
"A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head."
Rev:12

 

[jimmydiggs]

Sure, it's safe to bash us Catholics. Let's see you bad-mouth some Muslim extremists and let us know how "safe" works out for you.

Muslims are going to hell. Mohammad was a pedofile who violated a nine year old girl.

Are you suggesting Catholics should start going derka derka Mohammad Jihad *kaboom*?

 

[jimmydiggs]

Beautiful!
[video=youtube_share;9DvPSl0EuA4]http://youtu.be/9DvPSl0EuA4[/video]
"A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head."
Rev:12

Moar like ugly idolatry.

The Catholic church works for Satan, just like the Mormon, JW, Joel Osteen and all the occultists.

 

[Maynard]

,


"I will tell you what is written in the Book of Truth. No one supports me against them except Michael, your prince."- Daniel 10:21

Let us pray...

O glorious Prince St. Michael,
chief and commander of the heavenly hosts,
guardian of souls,
vanquisher of rebel spirits,
servant in the house of the Divine King,
and our admirable conductor,
thou who dost shine with excellence and superhuman virtue,
vouchsafe to deliver us from all evil,
who turn to thee with confidence,
and enable us by thy gracious protection
to serve God more and more faithfully every day.
Amen.

Pray for us, O Glorious St. Michael, Prince of the Church of Jesus Christ.
That we may be made worthy of His Promises.

Almighty and everlasting God,
who by a prodigy of Goodness
and a merciful desire
for the salvation of all men,
has appointed the most glorious Archangel St. Michael, Prince of Thy Church.
Make us worthy,
we beseech Thee,
to be delivered by his powerful protection
from all our enemies,
that none of them may harass usat the hour of our death,
but that we may be conducted by him
into the august presence of Thy Divine Majesty.
This we beg through the merits of Jesus Christ our Lord.
Amen

 

[7seven7]

,


"I will tell you what is written in the Book of Truth. No one supports me against them except Michael, your prince."- Daniel 10:21

Let us pray...

O glorious Prince St. Michael,
chief and commander of the heavenly hosts,
guardian of souls,
vanquisher of rebel spirits,
servant in the house of the Divine King,
and our admirable conductor,
thou who dost shine with excellence and superhuman virtue,
vouchsafe to deliver us from all evil,
who turn to thee with confidence,
and enable us by thy gracious protection
to serve God more and more faithfully every day.
Amen.

Pray for us, O Glorious St. Michael, Prince of the Church of Jesus Christ.
That we may be made worthy of His Promises.

Almighty and everlasting God,
who by a prodigy of Goodness
and a merciful desire
for the salvation of all men,
has appointed the most glorious Archangel St. Michael, Prince of Thy Church.
Make us worthy,
we beseech Thee,
to be delivered by his powerful protection
from all our enemies,
that none of them may harass usat the hour of our death,
but that we may be conducted by him
into the august presence of Thy Divine Majesty.
This we beg through the merits of Jesus Christ our Lord.
Amen

Amen brother

 

[7seven7]

Moar like ugly idolatry.

The Catholic church works for Satan, just like the Mormon, JW, Joel Osteen and all the occultists.

LOL!!! Yeh yeh we work for satan. Thats why we Baptise our children into God's family at an early age, thats why we are against abortion and same sex marriage, that why we have missions all over the world, thats why we have so many charity organisations, thats why...... (i can keep going but you get the point). Its all the work of the devil, champ. Good on you. God bless you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. A decade of the Holy Rosary for you tonight, mate.
You go and sin all you like and believe you are saved regardless, just because you say u believe. What a cop-out. You dont have to do anything good according to your theory of salvation because "works mean nothing". Easy way out buddy. Here on earth anyway. You'll probably get into Heaven before me, but I think you'll find the shock of your life when you get there. And as for the whole "works" thing;
Titus 2:11-14




Trained by Saving Grace

[SUP]11 [/SUP]For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, [SUP]12 [/SUP]teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, [SUP]13 [/SUP]looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, [SUP]14 [/SUP]who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.


​Works mean alot to God. Make no mistake!

 

[InfiniteDescent]

I like how people treat the Catholic church as truly holy an incorruptible. Is this not proof that man is corrupt? Even a pope can sin. Under that robe, and funny looking hat, he's still human. Top 10 Shameful Moments in Catholic History - Listverse
Ah, forget the tyrannous reign of torture and killing the "church" did a few hundred years ago, no biggy. Forget the fact that the "church" didn't want the common people to have any bibles for themselves or to be able to read them. Yeah...

 

[Katy-follower]

"A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head."
Rev:12

Maynard - you need to read the whole of Rev 12, not just one verse. When you read the whole chapter you will learn who the woman really is. It mentions persecution of the woman in the last days. How is this Mary? Keep reading and you'll see it does not speak of Mary at all, rather the woman described is Israel. Verse 12-17 talks about how the devil will make war against Israel and try to destroy her. It also says the woman will flee into the wilderness and God will protect her.

Note also the similarity between this and the description Joseph gave of his father Jacob (Israel) and his mother and their children (Genesis 37:9-11). The twelve stars refer to the twelve tribes of Israel. So the woman in Revelation 12 is Israel.

Jesus, the son of David from the tribe of Judah, came from Israel. Israel gave birth - or brought forth - Christ Jesus. Verse 5 says that the woman’s child was "a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne." Clearly, this is describing Jesus. Jesus ascended to heaven (Acts 1:9-11) and will one day establish His kingdom on earth (Revelation 20:4-6), and He will rule it with perfect judgment (the “rod of iron”; see Psalm 2:7-9).

​

Don't forget verse 2 of the scripture you mention: "Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth"

If you believe this is Mary...

Interesting point - part of the curse of sin is pain during childbirth, as noted in Genesis 3:16: To the woman He said:“I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you.” - so if your religion teaches that Mary could not be suffering birth pain (because of your belief of her Immaculate Conception and no Original Sin), then why do you believe this is Mary suffering in Rev 12:2?

 

[Katy-follower]

LOL!!! Yeh yeh we work for satan. Thats why we Baptise our children into God's family at an early age, thats why we are against abortion and same sex marriage, that why we have missions all over the world, thats why we have so many charity organisations, thats why...... (i can keep going but you get the point). Its all the work of the devil, champ. Good on you. God bless you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. A decade of the Holy Rosary for you tonight, mate.
You go and sin all you like and believe you are saved regardless, just because you say u believe. What a cop-out. You dont have to do anything good according to your theory of salvation because "works mean nothing". Easy way out buddy. Here on earth anyway. You'll probably get into Heaven before me, but I think you'll find the shock of your life when you get there. And as for the whole "works" thing;
Titus 2:11-14




Trained by Saving Grace

[SUP]11 [/SUP]For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, [SUP]12 [/SUP]teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, [SUP]13 [/SUP]looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, [SUP]14 [/SUP]who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.


​Works mean alot to God. Make no mistake!

Did you not know that IF 'Mother' Theresa was not born again, through faith alone in Christ's work on the cross, then she is not in Heaven and all her millions of works were meaningless to God? Her works would be called filthy rags.

Matthew 7:21-23: "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’"

Christians call Him Lord, but not all who call Him Lord are Christians. This group mentioned here (in Matthew) are those on judgment day who believed they were saved, but they never were. They call Him Lord but He was never really their Lord, they never did the will of the Father. Many will say they cast out demons for Him, that they did all these amazing works for Him, but He will say to them "I never knew you". If God says He never knew them it's because they were never His child.

We are not automatically children of God, we have to become one. We have to be born again (the spiritual birth, where we are born from above). We were already physically born, but we have to be spiritually born.

 

[terryshields]

I am not Catholic but I believe Mother Teresa is a saint and Jesus loves her. No one without God can live and do what she did and I also believe true followers of Jesus here on earth are saints too