Attack of the Judaizers

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john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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Quoting the below as proof one must rely on OT food laws, and such, really misses the point.
Hebrews is a lot about directing Hebrew believers NOT to go back to relying on OT food laws and such.
If anything, the verses below are warning NOT to go back to relying on the food laws.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
Heb 10:29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
This is not about pork, it is about ANY unrepented sin. About any sin that is wilfully committed. It brings death for all eternnity.
 
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danschance

Guest
So, Christ Himself spoke the Ten Commandments from Mt. Sinai. He is the One who was the LORD. He gave Ten Commandments which are not ceremonial Laws. Now you are telling me He says "Oops, my bad. I had you put to death people for breaking my Sabbath. I had Israel removed from their land and carried into captivity for Sabbath breaking and Idolatry (equally ranked). I told you I made a perpetual covenant regarding the Sabbath but now I have changed my mind. I think I'll try something different now."

The Sabbath is not reaffirmed?

Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Looking down through time to the end time days He says this...

Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

What happened here? Did He mean to say Sunday but got confused?

Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

The early church kept the Sabbath. It took an edict from constantine to "de-judaize" the church by outlawing Sabbath observance in the FOURTH century.

Well if the one who gave the Law on Mt. Sinai, Jesus Christ, said this...

Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

And then changed His mind, how many more times has He changed His mind and what version are we on now? Version 6.7? What will He decide to change tomorrow?
John, show me where Jesus affirms the Jewish sabbath in the NT. For example Show me where Jesus said something like "We must obey the sabbath" or similar. It is not there. It does not apear in the NT.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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well then.. this is indeed the time and fulfillment of this scripture, if you can say that.[h=3]1 Timothy 4:1-5[/h]King James Version (KJV)

4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
Where in the Word of God is meat set apart (sanctified)?

Lev 11 and Deut 14
 
Nov 2, 2013
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This is not about pork, it is about ANY unrepented sin. About any sin that is wilfully committed. It brings death for all eternnity.
The separation in the ministry of the LORD brings our afflictions. Seek God....jesus christ has come in the flesh john....Their is no lord.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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John, show me where Jesus affirms the Jewish sabbath in the NT. For example Show me where Jesus said something like "We must obey the sabbath" or similar. It is not there. It does not apear in the NT.

Mat 12:8 For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."

If you want to talk about something that does not appear in the NT, show men where the Sabbath is cancelled and Sunday substituted.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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hizikyah.. stop and look at yourself at what you are doing please... don't you see something wrong here?
You are so blind it is unreal.

You call Yahweh's food Laws demonic.

You twist Scripture to your own destruction.

Not one of the men who wrote Scripture ate pork, the Catholic Church used to use pork eating as the litmus test and kill followers of Messiah who didnt eat pork. Kepha states he never ate anything unclean years after Messiah was on earth.

You dont even know why pork is eaten on easter.

You know it is in honor of "triumphing" over the boar that killed Nimrod's son Tammuz?

"The cult of Tammuz centred around two yearly festivals, one celebrating his marriage to the goddess Inanna, the other lamenting his death at the hands of demons from the netherworld. During the 3rd dynasty of Ur (c. 2112—c. 2004 BC) in the city of Umma (modern Tell Jokha), the marriage of the god was dramatically celebrated in February—March, Umma's Month of the Festival of Tammuz. . . . The celebrations in March—April that marked the death of the god also seem to have been dramatically performed. Many of the laments for the occasion have as a setting a procession out into the desert to the fold of the slain god. (ibid. Emphasis ours.)"

Ezekiel 8:13-14, "He also said to me: Turn yet again, and you will see greater abominations that they are doing. Then he brought me to the door of the gate of Yahweh's House, which was toward the north; and behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz."

Yeremyah 16:19-21, "O Yahweh, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles will come to You from the ends of the earth, and will say: Surely our fathers have inherited nothing but lies and vanity; worthless, powerless gods of no use at all! Do men make gods for themselves? Yes, but they are powerless! Therefore behold, I will make them to know--this time I will teach them My power and might; and they will know that My Name is Yahweh!

Yet most dont even care to know the truth.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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This, posted in another thread by another person, should explain it all:

(Well, dang, since the insert image function isn't working I'll have to state it):

Grace explained: Legalism bans all pork. Grace is bacon!
Does legalism ban all murder and grace is killing without remorse?

Legalism bans adultery. Grace is sexual licentiousness?
 
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danschance

Guest
I think this is really the crux of the issue. Either God lied, or we have 2 different gods. God told His people that He chose, to do certain things forever, for eternity. And that by them doing them, He would be pleased.

Then Jesus comes along, and we assume that He is doing away with all of the these things (even though He never said so).

So either:
1) God lied when He said to do those things forever, but changed His mind when He came in the flesh as Jesus.
2) Jesus supercedes God by getting things right in the NT, thereby implying 2 different Gods, where 1 is more correct than the other.

As an aside, if we believe God really did mean forever, then we would endorse and support the Jewish people following the Torah and offering Sacrifices in order to be in right relationship with God. Because if He truly meant that they should do those things forever, then we should recognize that it grants them access to Him forever. I don't know many people who would say that.
No, God does not lie. This is just a matter of you not understanding how Christ fulfilled the ceremonial laws of the OT.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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You are so blind it is unreal.

You call Yahweh's food Laws demonic.

You twist Scripture to your own destruction.

Not one of the men who wrote Scripture ate pork, the Catholic Church used to use pork eating as the litmus test and kill followers of Messiah who didnt eat pork. Kepha states he never ate anything unclean years after Messiah was on earth.

You dont even know why pork is eaten on easter.

You know it is in honor of "triumphing" over the boar that killed Nimrod's son Tammuz?

"The cult of Tammuz centred around two yearly festivals, one celebrating his marriage to the goddess Inanna, the other lamenting his death at the hands of demons from the netherworld. During the 3rd dynasty of Ur (c. 2112—c. 2004 BC) in the city of Umma (modern Tell Jokha), the marriage of the god was dramatically celebrated in February—March, Umma's Month of the Festival of Tammuz. . . . The celebrations in March—April that marked the death of the god also seem to have been dramatically performed. Many of the laments for the occasion have as a setting a procession out into the desert to the fold of the slain god. (ibid. Emphasis ours.)"

Ezekiel 8:13-14, "He also said to me: Turn yet again, and you will see greater abominations that they are doing. Then he brought me to the door of the gate of Yahweh's House, which was toward the north; and behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz."

Yeremyah 16:19-21, "O Yahweh, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles will come to You from the ends of the earth, and will say: Surely our fathers have inherited nothing but lies and vanity; worthless, powerless gods of no use at all! Do men make gods for themselves? Yes, but they are powerless! Therefore behold, I will make them to know--this time I will teach them My power and might; and they will know that My Name is Yahweh!

Yet most dont even care to know the truth.
Most people have been spoon fed a whole lot of deception and don't even know it. They assume because some "man of the cloth" said something, it must be correct. When one begins to do this...

1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

he is on the way to truth.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Yeremyah 44:16-17, "Concerning the word that you have spoken to us in the Name of Yahweh, we will not listen to you!
Instead, we will certainly do what we have avowed to do. We will burn incense to the Queen of Heaven and pour out drink offerings to her, just as we and our fathers, our kings and our princes, used to do in the cities of Yahdah and in the streets of Yerusalem; for then we had plenty of food, were successful, and experienced no trouble."

If one even thinks a Easter ham has anything to do with the Messiah that shows how far gone they are.

Easter ham...........
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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No, God does not lie. This is just a matter of you not understanding how Christ fulfilled the ceremonial laws of the OT.
Uh, how is it that you think the Ten Commandments, spoken by Jesus Christ Himself, are ceremonial Laws? Can you explain this?
 
Oct 31, 2011
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Well, I asked about eating pork. I did not ask about the Sabbath.
I like this question. The spiritual meaning of not eating pork is to not put garbage in your mind. I don't eat pork to remind myself not to read dirty books, not to judge people but only judge sin, etc. Not eating pork is a help for me. But God doesn't care what I eat, that is eliminated but God cares what I put in my mind. So if I refuse the bacon and read the dirty book, it gets me no where. If it helps me keep my Lord in my mind hour by hour, it can benefit me. If I read the dirty book, I am not obeying the spiritual law of not eating pork.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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Yeremyah 44:16-17, "Concerning the word that you have spoken to us in the Name of Yahweh, we will not listen to you!
Instead, we will certainly do what we have avowed to do. We will burn incense to the Queen of Heaven and pour out drink offerings to her, just as we and our fathers, our kings and our princes, used to do in the cities of Yahdah and in the streets of Yerusalem; for then we had plenty of food, were successful, and experienced no trouble."

If one even thinks a Easter ham has anything to do with the Messiah that shows how far gone they are.

Easter ham...........
Three guesses how ishtar is pronounced, and the first two don't count.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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The problem here is very simple, the pharisees problem was not that they kepy Yahweh's Law but they did it without love, THEY DID NOT KEEP IT AT ALL....THEY MADE UP THEIR OWN RELIGION.

Many do not understand this and make no difference between Yahweh;s Instructions and pharisee law kak tradition.

If this is not understood I see how a complete misunderstanding of EVEY one of Yahshua's encounters can be misunderstood and Shaul writings can be misunderstood, Shaul grew up a pharisee.......

Mark 7:7-9, "But in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commandments of men. For laying aside the Law of Yahweh, you hold the tradition of men! Then He said to them: How well you reject the Law of Yahweh, so that you may keep your own tradition!"

Most poeple think Matt 15 is about food, it is about a hand wahing ceremony MADE UP by pharisees and commanded as higher than Yahweh's Law, which contains a special silver pitcher and a fake prayer.....

but I would be surprised if anyone even cares about understanding the truth behind this, why start caring about truth now right? "The bible I have says Jesus declared all foods clean, trichinosis worm here I come!!!!!"
Those that glory in their iniquity forget "Paul" wrote this:

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

the word Law is: 3551. nomos
nomos: that which is assigned, hence usage, law
Original Word: νόμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: nomos
Phonetic Spelling: (nom'-os)
Short Definition: a law, the Mosaic Law
Definition: usage, custom, law; in NT: of law in general, plur: of divine laws; of a force or influence impelling to action; of the Mosaic law; meton: of the books which contain the law, the Pentateuch, the Old Testament scriptures in general.
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Nov 2, 2013
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I refuse to believe one can see the spirit of God and blasphemy against it. The Lord of the world roots some deep into hell. We must love all and spend all we have to deliver them.
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
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John, show me where Jesus affirms the Jewish sabbath in the NT. For example Show me where Jesus said something like "We must obey the sabbath" or similar. It is not there. It does not apear in the NT.
Dan, show me where Jesus denounces the Jewish Sabbath. For example Show me where Jesus said something like "We must not obey the sabbath" or similar. It is not there. It does not apear in the NT.
 

Josh321

Senior Member
Sep 3, 2013
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I love God so much..praise be to God for he didn't come for the righteous but for sinners, thank you father God.
[h=3]Matthew 11:25[/h]King James Version (KJV)

25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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I refuse to believe one can see the spirit of God and blasphemy against it. The Lord of the world roots some deep into hell. We must love all and spend all we have to deliver them.
Who are thoe ones you think are rooted in "hell" those who celebrate Ishtar Sunday with a ham? Or those who do not?
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
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No, God does not lie. This is just a matter of you not understanding how Christ fulfilled the ceremonial laws of the OT.
So if God says do it forever, and Jesus says do it until heaven and earth pass away, God didn't really mean to do it because He said "fullfill"?
 
Nov 2, 2013
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Who are thoe ones you think are rooted in "hell" those who celebrate Ishtar Sunday with a ham? Or those who do not?
Ever heard the story of Moses how he and Aaron smited the Pharisee to release his people? How was the first smite, rooted in hell?