What Happens to an UNBAPTIZED believer?

[Alligator]

Faith should be in Christ, not the cross. I'm assuming that's what you meant. No, what we do is important. See Rom. 2:6; jas. 2:24; Heb. 5:8-9; 2Cor. 5:10, etc.

It Has Not Been Found, a Verse to Show that Unbaptized Believers are damned.



Of course what we do is important, but off subject. What men do is important in that what they do condemns them: All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags. So like a fool man may stand before the Lord and pretend to be righteous, like the king who wore no clothes! Or we can get some smarts and cry out, God be merciful to me a sinner!

Works do not save.
The only works an unsaved man has are filthy rags.

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, not of works lest any CC poster should boast.

Off subject?? Tell that to Kerry, he's the one who raised the point.. LOL, to you, everything that you disagree with or proves you wrong is off subject.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Since the topic is about unbaptized believers, let us continue to observe how
no one has found proof of condemnation of unbaptized believers.



An excellent post, Kenneth! I had not thought of that argument. You deserve a like for it.

So then refusing to be water-baptized would be one of those sins that will be forgiven.

By my understanding I would say no.
Because Jesus makes it evident that if you do not follow His commands you are not truly one of His sheep.
Belief, love, repentance, baptism, and confession work hand and hand with each other.


James 2:14-26[h=3]Faith Without Works Is Dead[/h][SUP]14 [/SUP]What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? [SUP]15 [/SUP]If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, [SUP]16 [/SUP]and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profpan class="text Jas-2-17" id="en-NKJV-30311">[SUP]17[/SUP]Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[SUP][a][/SUP] works, and I will show you my faith by my[SUP][b][/SUP] works. [SUP]19 [/SUP]You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! [SUP]20 [/SUP]But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? [SUP]22 [/SUP]Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? [SUP]23 [/SUP]And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[SUP][d][/SUP] And he was called the friend of God. [SUP]24 [/SUP]You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
[SUP]26[/SUP]For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


So now if you take what Jesus said in Matthew 25, Matthew 7, about the ones who are truly His will do the will of the Father, and go by what James says which supports our Lords words.

To start with you are not truly a sheep, therefore can not be forgiven for you still deny the Christ by not observing His teachings. Second if the Holy Spirit tells you to be baptized in water, which I believe He would because our Lord commanded it, and you refuse to are you not denying the Holy Spirit's guidance. Hince blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, by denying Him.

 

[Kerry]

Off subject?? Tell that to Kerry, he's the one who raised the point.. LOL, to you, everything that you disagree with or proves you wrong is off subject.

Tell me what? IDK what you say, it is the cross and nothing else. Y'all keep relying own your works, see where that get's you.

 

[roaringkitten]

If a man believes in the Lord Jesus, trusts the Lord Jesus as His Savior, but he does not get water baptized, what happens to him? Does he go to hell? Bible proof?

If man is only trusting in the blood of the Lamb of Almighty God for his salvation, the answer to your question is obvious.

"and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood" Rev 1:5

 

[kennethcadwell]

Tell me what? IDK what you say, it is the cross and nothing else. Y'all keep relying own your works, see where that get's you.

There is a difference out of relying on our own works, and doing those works of repentance, baptism, confession, and living in love and a helping nature out of love for our Lord.
For our Lord Jesus says these are things that those who are His sheep will do, and if you don't you are not truly His.


Luke 6:46-49
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

The last part I highlighted in red is Jesus saying what happens to those who do not do what He says, their ruin will be great.
Notice how it says house, this means that not only will their ruin be great but the ones that they teach not to obey what the Lord said as well will be ruined by false teaching.

 

[kennethcadwell]

If man is only trusting in the blood of the Lamb of Almighty God for his salvation, the answer to your question is obvious.

"and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood" Rev 1:5

James 2:14-26Faith Without Works Is Dead

[SUP]14 [/SUP]What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? [SUP]15 [/SUP]If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, [SUP]16 [/SUP]and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profpan class="text Jas-2-17" id="en-NKJV-30311">[SUP]17[/SUP]Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[SUP][a][/SUP] works, and I will show you my faith by my[SUP][

 

[newbirth]

Continue to observe how no one has scripture that condemns an unbaptized believer.



Good scripture, Peaceful.
However, I am not following your argument.
I am saying that baptism, filling, indwelling, coming upon, regenerating, leading, & sealing are not all the same thing, though all works of the Holy Spirit. You seemed to think that baptism & filling were the same thing, but I pointed out that Spirit baptism is a NT work of the Holy Spirit, which puts men into the Body of Christ, the Church, a body which did not exist in the OT. Yet in the OT we do find men filled with the Spirit (not baptized). That was to alert you to the fact that filling and baptizing are not the same thing.

3 And thou shalt speak unto all that are wise-hearted, whom I have filled with the spirit of wisdom, that they make Aaron’s garments to sanctify him, that he may minister unto me in the priest’s office. 4 And these are the garments which they shall make: a breastplate, and an ephod, and a robe, and a coat of checker work, a mitre, and a girdle: and they shall make holy garments for Aaron thy brother, and his sons, that he may minister unto me in the priest’s office. 5 And they shall take the gold, and the blue, and the purple, and the scarlet, and the fine linen.


31:1 And Jehovah spake unto Moses, saying, 2 See, I have called by name Bezalel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah: 3 and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship, 4 to devise skilful works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass, 5 and in cutting of stones for setting, and in carving of wood, to work in all manner of workmanship.

Also, John the Baptist was filled before even born, and before the Lord Jesus would do work any Spirit baptism, before the yet future Body of Christ / Church (yet future in Mat 16: I will build My Church).

I thought you might have learned the above or something like it from the common 'tater which you don't want me to mention -- so I don't mention him, the male cow, as it were.

Atwood says ...That was to alert you to the fact that filling and baptizing are not the same thing....now is Atwood lying or is the scripture lying
Acts 11:16
And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized in the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:3-5American Standard Version (ASV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And there appeared unto them tongues parting asunder, like as of fire; and it sat upon each one of them.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Now there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven.

 

[Kerry]

There is a difference out of relying on our own works, and doing those works of repentance, baptism, confession, and living in love and a helping nature out of love for our Lord.
For our Lord Jesus says these are things that those who are His sheep will do, and if you don't you are not truly His.


Luke 6:46-49
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

The last part I highlighted in red is Jesus saying what happens to those who do not do what He says, their ruin will be great.
Notice how it says house, this means that not only will their ruin be great but the ones that they teach not to obey what the Lord said as well will be ruined by false teaching.

Mr. Kenneth
Man has been trying to do what He say's since the beginning. Try as you may, you cannot do it as the sin nature has as a slave and you will do it's will. Now comes the law, it doe's nothing to free us from the slave of sin, it only defines sin and points to the day that our sins will be forgiven, Meaning the sacrfices and offerings only covered the sin but did not forgive them. Which is why that OT saint's went to Paradise a part of hell and not to be with the Father.

When Jesus died on the cross He went to Paradise as He promised the theif on the cross to His left saying " today you will be with me in Paradise" While there Jesus preached the gospel to those who were in Paradise. These are called the captives, as Satan had right to keep them captive because of their sins. Jesus said I have come to preach the gospel to the poor and to taker the captivity captive. This is exactly what He was talking about and much more.

Jesus emptied paradise and hell enlarged itself. He also set free the captive of sin as He broke the power of sin for those who believe in His work at the cross.

Baptism of water has nothing to do with it except that it is a sign of commitment and nothing else. Just as communion is a sign of faith in the cross.

The only requirement for eternal life is faith in the work of the cross and nothing else.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Mr. Kenneth
Man has been trying to do what He say's since the beginning. Try as you may, you cannot do it as the sin nature has as a slave and you will do it's will. Now comes the law, it doe's nothing to free us from the slave of sin, it only defines sin and points to the day that our sins will be forgiven, Meaning the sacrfices and offerings only covered the sin but did not forgive them. Which is why that OT saint's went to Paradise a part of hell and not to be with the Father.

When Jesus died on the cross He went to Paradise as He promised the theif on the cross to His left saying " today you will be with me in Paradise" While there Jesus preached the gospel to those who were in Paradise. These are called the captives, as Satan had right to keep them captive because of their sins. Jesus said I have come to preach the gospel to the poor and to taker the captivity captive. This is exactly what He was talking about and much more.

Jesus emptied paradise and hell enlarged itself. He also set free the captive of sin as He broke the power of sin for those who believe in His work at the cross.

Baptism of water has nothing to do with it except that it is a sign of commitment and nothing else. Just as communion is a sign of faith in the cross.

The only requirement for eternal life is faith in the work of the cross and nothing else.

Try as you may, you can not do it ????? This puzzles me.

Jesus said repent of your sins, can and have you repented or do you find it to hard to do so you don't ?
( I think it is very easy to repent, it does take time to turn and stop doing some sins but still not impossible. )

Jesus said confess Him before men, can and do you confess Him or do you find that to hard to do ?
( Once again not hard. )

Jesus said be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, have you been baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit while dipped in water, or do you find this to hard to do ?
( Easy again. )

Jesus said love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind...love your neighbor as yourself...love your enemy, so do you find these three t0also ?
( I don't, and think they are easy to follow also. )

Jesus says to help those who are in need, so do you find this hard to do to ?
( I don't )

Jesus said to forgive others of their sins, do you find this hard ?
( I don't )

None of what I mentioned is hard to follow, and is what our Lord Jesus said to do in the new covenant.

 

[Kerry]

Was Paul Baptized in the name of Jesus and did He speak in unknown tongues where in the bible was He baptized in water?

Peter, filled the Holy Ghost stood an preached the gospel on the day of Penetecsot and 5,000 souls were saved, show where Peter or any of the 5,000 were baptized in water. My friend you are added to the works of ther cross, you are saying that the cross is not good enough, we must be baptized a work of our flesh. In fact you are defecating on the cross and calling it insufficient. These are strong words, but it is the truth.

Nothing wrong with being baptized in water in fact I encourage it. But it is the cross and nothing else. To mandate baptism is a lie and a work of the flesh and mans finger on a God given right.

 

[newbirth]

Mr. Kenneth
Man has been trying to do what He say's since the beginning. Try as you may, you cannot do it as the sin nature has as a slave and you will do it's will. Now comes the law, it doe's nothing to free us from the slave of sin, it only defines sin and points to the day that our sins will be forgiven, Meaning the sacrfices and offerings only covered the sin but did not forgive them. Which is why that OT saint's went to Paradise a part of hell and not to be with the Father.

When Jesus died on the cross He went to Paradise as He promised the theif on the cross to His left saying " today you will be with me in Paradise" While there Jesus preached the gospel to those who were in Paradise. These are called the captives, as Satan had right to keep them captive because of their sins. Jesus said I have come to preach the gospel to the poor and to taker the captivity captive. This is exactly what He was talking about and much more.

Jesus emptied paradise and hell enlarged itself. He also set free the captive of sin as He broke the power of sin for those who believe in His work at the cross.

Baptism of water has nothing to do with it except that it is a sign of commitment and nothing else. Just as communion is a sign of faith in the cross.

The only requirement for eternal life is faith in the work of the cross and nothing else.

So Kerry is the scripture lying...or are you teaching a different gospel?
Acts 2:38American Standard Version (ASV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

But when they believed Philip’s preaching of the things concerning the Kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

And now why tarriest thou? Arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Or are ye ignorant that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]We were buried therefore with him through baptism unto death: that like as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection;

 

[Kerry]

So when was Peter Baptized?

 

[Kerry]

And He was saying be Baptized in the name of Jesus, this is very different than being baptized in water.

 

[newbirth]

Was Paul Baptized in the name of Jesus and did He speak in unknown tongues where in the bible was He baptized in water?

Peter, filled the Holy Ghost stood an preached the gospel on the day of Penetecsot and 5,000 souls were saved, show where Peter or any of the 5,000 were baptized in water. My friend you are added to the works of ther cross, you are saying that the cross is not good enough, we must be baptized a work of our flesh. In fact you are defecating on the cross and calling it insufficient. These are strong words, but it is the truth.

Nothing wrong with being baptized in water in fact I encourage it. But it is the cross and nothing else. To mandate baptism is a lie and a work of the flesh and mans finger on a God given right.

It is you who are saying God's word is of no effect so there is no need to obey him...you preach a cross as if Christ is still hung on it...he is risen in power...where is the power of the cross without the resurrection???....baptism is our death and resurrection...or have you not read the scripture...

 

[kennethcadwell]

So when was Peter Baptized?

And He was saying be Baptized in the name of Jesus, this is very different than being baptized in water.

Peter was baptized in water by John ( John 3:23 )

The great commission says be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
The Greek word Baptizo was used here which means immersion in water.

Some one dips you in water and says be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Atwood says ...That was to alert you to the fact that filling and baptizing are not the same thing....now is Atwood lying or is the scripture lying
Acts 11:16
And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized in the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:3-5American Standard Version (ASV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And there appeared unto them tongues parting asunder, like as of fire; and it sat upon each one of them.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Now there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven.

Is Atwood lying - no - he just doesn't fully understand. I still believe that being baptized in the holy Spirit is being filled with the Spirit which is being born again. I was going to respond to his post but I didn't want it to turn into an argument and it is not really what this thread is about - well, not totally!

 

[TruthisPower]

Peter was baptized in water by John ( John 3:23 )

The great commission says be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
The Greek word Baptizo was used here which means immersion in water.

Some one dips you in water and says be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

John The Baptist, never baptized anyone with Holy Spirit

Except Jesus but he doesn't count

 

[Kerry]

So you saying that John the baptist was baptized by the people he was baptizing. why do I feel that you are reaching?

Yet He said I must decrease so that He will increase.

How many people did Jesus baptize in water?

 

[TruthisPower]

John The baptist was probably baptized, but he never was baptized in the name of the father, son, and holy spirit

that why he cant go into heaven

 

[Kerry]

Mr. Kenneth, if you want to hold to that doctrine, then I have no bones with you as long as your faith is in the cross and not what you do. Therefore you are my brother and I support you. Learn and grow in the cross, do not rely on what you have been taught, but Go to the word. I know that is a difficult thing to do. But it must be so. Iam only trying to help you and nothing more.

Good night and God bless.