It's the blood of the Lamb

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Nov 26, 2011
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No doubt... no more going back to the vomit... But we are still being made holy in Him and might stumble on our path and make a mistake, His forgiveness and washing of the feet is for that, not for habitual engaging in badness... this is no "licence" for willful and perpetual evil. I think this might be the Scripture:

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
Let me ask a pointed question.

Does a child molester have to stop molesting children BEFORE God will forgive them?
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
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Let me ask a pointed question.

Does a child molester have to stop molesting children BEFORE God will forgive them?
Sorry, I dont respond to trick-questions. They are almost always an attempt to gain some kind of upper hand position before I even started answering.
I just learned with time it is not a good thing to do... again sorry nothing personal.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Satan has deceived many people in this manner.
The only one deceived is you dude and blind to the truth....EVEN the RIGHTEOUSNESS of GOD which is by faith OF JESUS CHRIST unto ALL and UPON ALL them that believe:

The righteousness of GOD is UNTO ALL and ON ALL who BELIEVE based upon what exactly?

THE FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST

You foolishly ignore this and explain this away by quoting men who were not inspired such as Justin Martyr

I suggest you open your eyes oh blind one.....!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Sorry, I dont respond to trick-questions. They are almost always an attempt to gain some kind of upper hand position before I even started answering.
I just learned with time it is not a good thing to do... again sorry nothing personal.
AMEN and not to mention the fact that it is a moronic question at best which is used quite regularly by those who trust into their own works and abilities......while rejecting the completed work of Christ and what He accomplished for humanity upon the cross.......

Same kind of crap the devil pulled in the garden...HATH God said.......seems like workers for salvation and the devil have quite a few things in common for sure!
 
Sep 30, 2014
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No doubt... no more going back to the vomit... But we are still being made holy in Him and might stumble on our path and make a mistake, His forgiveness and washing of the feet is for that, not for habitual engaging in badness... this is no "licence" for willful and perpetual evil. I think this might be the Scripture:

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
I think she sums it up very clearly skinski, I'm not the judge, but I know justice happens one way or the other. There is no fooling God. If one thinks he can play christian and go molest children, I'm sure God will have a answer for it, be it in this life or the next. I know things happen with good reason that we don't understand. I'm not going to try to understand something that is in Gods control.
 
Sep 16, 2014
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That is a great post. I think you meant to quote Exo 23:7 instead of 23:8? If not could you elaborate as it goes over my head.

Exo 23:7 Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.
Exo 23:8 And thou shalt take no gift: for the gift blindeth the wise, and perverteth the words of the righteous.

Thanks.
There was a former concept of righteous works under the law, initiated by Abel before the law. If a righteous work of the old testament record satisfied God, then the least of the priests of Israel was as great as Jesus. So would have been the one bringing a sacrifice to a priest.

If a man sacrificed a single animal, kept one law, then to him is holder of the same righteousness that is in Christ?

Right-standing before God was a temporary experience, the continuance in it being dependent upon frequent sacrifices. Those that ministered sacrifices that served to admit the need for forgiveness were good ones, though none attested to repentance from sin. They all performed a temporary covering by the blood of animals. None of that amounted to the inner righteousness God requires for eternal life. The people doing those things of old didn't receive the promise of God for the righteous in God. They received whatever blessings were tied to obedience, or curses for disobedience, nothing more.

All along no worldly lamb blood had eternal value, the partakers of which lacked eternal value. But not the partakers of the blood of Jesus, for by Jesus alone can a man receive eternal benefits. Eternal righteousness was therefore strictly imputed by God for Jesus' blood sake, based on the blood, not on obedience to do good works to qualify.

Imputed righteousness enables the bearer to then do works of righteousness by a new "nature", which is technically a poor word for it. The new born again inner man is brought from the dead to the living to serve God because he has received that righteousness by faith, because of the grace plan of God through Jesus. The ancients had very limited instances of benefiting from the grace of God, a few having righteousness imputed to them case by case. Today, by the New Covenant, all who call upon Jesus come into that plan of grace, available through faith.
 
Jun 30, 2011
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It's the dying, not the bleeding - Dying and shedding blood or synonymous in the Bible == I guess there are whole denominations who say there is a pool of Jesus' blood in heaven

Hymn theology I call it, where they are so used to singing hymns they actually start thinking they are scripture. Another reason, I am not a fan of Hymns - Sing to the Lord a new song, avoid hymn theology because it reminds you of a time you used to be close to the Lord - reminiscent
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I think she sums it up very clearly skinski, I'm not the judge, but I know justice happens one way or the other. There is no fooling God. If one thinks he can play christian and go molest children, I'm sure God will have a answer for it, be it in this life or the next. I know things happen with good reason that we don't understand. I'm not going to try to understand something that is in Gods control.

the problem we run into is when we think as the pharisees did. I do not molest children so I am righteous, And God loves me, If we think we are better than they are. and probably just as lost as they were. we do not understand the law. or Gods holy standard. We also get into a problem (which is also a reason I refuse to respond to skinski anymore) when we think a person in sin can stop BEFORE they can be healed by God. as if our self effort could help us do anything.

Our salvation is not only for eternal life in Jesus, But also in power to overcome sin with the Holy Spirit. People like skinski want to stop sin first, (which is impossible) and reject the power of the spirit.
 
Jun 30, 2011
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the problem we run into is when we think as the pharisees did. I do not molest children so I am righteous, And God loves me, If we think we are better than they are. and probably just as lost as they were. we do not understand the law. or Gods holy standard. We also get into a problem (which is also a reason I refuse to respond to skinski anymore) when we think a person in sin can stop BEFORE they can be healed by God. as if our self effort could help us do anything.

Our salvation is not only for eternal life in Jesus, But also in power to overcome sin with the Holy Spirit. People like skinski want to stop sin first, (which is impossible) and reject the power of the spirit.

They also think a better version of themselves is there hope, I have done this to myself a few times - if I could only change in this certain way, i'd be more acceptable. God loves you while you were a sinner, and loves you enough to change you by His spirit. Warts and all

Do not be overly righteous and ruin yourself - Ecclesiastes - Imputed righteousness of Christ is what we have in this life, we can walk blameless, until we sin and the Holy Spirit shows you your sin.

I have walked in a way where I am hard on myself, for no other reason that I hate myself and self-loathe myself which is a stronghold I am asking the Lord to destroy. "I hate myself more than you ever could" is a series of quotes, and I contemplate how can I use that by His grace to redeem that.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
They also think a better version of themselves is there hope, I have done this to myself a few times - if I could only change in this certain way, i'd be more acceptable. God loves you while you were a sinner, and loves you enough to change you by His spirit. Warts and all

Do not be overly righteous and ruin yourself - Ecclesiastes - Imputed righteousness of Christ is what we have in this life, we can walk blameless, until we sin and the Holy Spirit shows you your sin.

I have walked in a way where I am hard on myself, for no other reason that I hate myself and self-loathe myself which is a stronghold I am asking the Lord to destroy. "I hate myself more than you never could" is a series of quotes, and I contemplate how can I use that by His grace to redeem that.
the probem is when we are self righteous, and judging ourselves so severely, that we do not understand the eternal love and forgiveness of God. We are to busy doing this, and not busy enough doing the things God wants us to do. I can get legalistic on myself also. and when I do this, I have taken myself out, and miss out on so many opportunities.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
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We also get into a problem (which is also a reason I refuse to respond to skinski anymore) when we think a person in sin can stop BEFORE they can be healed by God. as if our self effort could help us do anything.
Our salvation is not only for eternal life in Jesus, But also in power to overcome sin with the Holy Spirit. People like skinski want to stop sin first, (which is impossible) and reject the power of the spirit.
I used to be ensnared into this type of bondage and it equals HELL. This manner of thinking could never stop me from sinning, so true! I was just helplessly watching myself fall because I myself had no power to stop and was continually tormented with thoughts of going to hell and my conscience that could never get clean. I was in daily despair and wanted to die (you can tell by the fruit who was it coming from). Today when I hear people preaching this, tbh I get literally sick in my stomach of that spirit, it reminds me of that nightmare period of my life.
I thank God for putting some mature Christians into my life who told me this was not of God and that I needed to renew my mind with His Word. I started putting my faith in God and diving into the Scriptures and reading what the Word actually says about God's everlasting mercy, and Him assuring us of finishing the work He started in us, I was basically prophecying His Word over myself. Death and life are in the power of the tongue. We must believe His Word. Then God started removing my evil habits and I started moving forward.

Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
 
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eternally-gratefull

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I used to be ensnared into this type of bondage and it equals HELL. This manner of thinking could never stop me from sinning, so true! I was just helplessly watching myself fall because I myself had no power to stop and was continually tormented with thoughts of going to hell and my conscience that could never get clean. I was in daily despair and wanted to die (you can tell by the fruit who was it coming from). Today when I hear people preaching this, tbh I get literally sick in my stomach of that spirit, it reminds me of that nightmare period of my life.
I thank God for putting some mature Christians into my life who told me this was not of God and that I needed to renew my mind with His Word. I started putting my faith in God and diving into the Scriptures and reading what the Word actually says about God's everlasting mercy, and Him assuring us of finishing the work He started in us, I was basically prophecying His Word over myself. Death and life are in the power of the tongue. We must believe His Word. Then God started removing my evil habits and I started moving forward.

Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
That is great!

When your in that state you have two choices. Do as you did and live in fear and dispair. or do as Skinski and others in here do and ignore your sin, and judge others (look at yourself as compaired to those you call sinners, like say the child molestor, and not to a perfect and rightious God)

As Jesus said, we need to be like the tax collector, on our knees, not even able to look up at heaven because we are so ashamed of our guilt, and not like the tax collector pumping our chests.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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Sorry, I dont respond to trick-questions. They are almost always an attempt to gain some kind of upper hand position before I even started answering.
I just learned with time it is not a good thing to do... again sorry nothing personal.
It is not a trick question.

The answer to that question is YES a child molester does have to stop molesting children BEFORE God will forgive them.

Likewise a murderer must stop murdering and a thief must stop stealing.

Yet that question can be very difficult to answer for someone who believes that one can be forgiven and keep engaging in wickedness. The crime of child molestation is so vile that a "no" answer to that question exposes the fallacy of one who holds that view.

If we were to ask such a question to anyone in the early church they would have responded with sentiment that of course a child molester would have to forsake their evil deeds.

The Bible says this...

Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

It is very clear.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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AMEN and not to mention the fact that it is a moronic question at best which is used quite regularly by those who trust into their own works and abilities......while rejecting the completed work of Christ and what He accomplished for humanity upon the cross.......

Same kind of crap the devil pulled in the garden...HATH God said.......seems like workers for salvation and the devil have quite a few things in common for sure!
More vacuous rhetoric. You hardly ever use any scripture in your posts but only assert the theology of men. When you do refer to scripture it is generally a single verse which you have twisted out of context.

The reason Jesus died on the cross is that...

Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

...and...

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Heb 9:18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
Heb 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
Heb 9:20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.

The death of Christ put into effect the New Covenant which we can be enjoined to God by the blood of Christ. We enter into this covenant by approaching God with a true heart, yielded to Him whereby His laws are written upon our hearts, whereby we are washed clean of our past crimes.

Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Heb 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Thus...

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Thus when we read...

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

The blood only cleanses IF we WALK in the light. We have to come clean with God in repentance, forsaking our rebellion, yield to God and THEN God cleanses us of all sin. The entire Bible agrees with this.

Wickedness must be laid aside. There is no excuse to keep choosing evil.

This notion of the "completed work of Christ" which is to simply be "trusted in" which somehow cloaks ongoing wickedness is preposterous. No-one who supports such an idea can back this notion up with what the Bible teaches. All people like you do is disregard the plain and simple truth and assert rhetoric. You ignore what is written in Hebrews, you ignore the words of Jesus, you ignore Paul, you ignore Peter, you ignore John.

Not only that but people like you refuse to broach the subject of heart purity in salvation. That subject is simply not touched with a ten foot pole.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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That is great!

When your in that state you have two choices. Do as you did and live in fear and dispair. or do as Skinski and others in here do and ignore your sin, and judge others (look at yourself as compaired to those you call sinners, like say the child molestor, and not to a perfect and rightious God)

As Jesus said, we need to be like the tax collector, on our knees, not even able to look up at heaven because we are so ashamed of our guilt, and not like the tax collector pumping our chests.
The tax collector passage is not an isolated portion of scripture. It is an illustration that we come before God humble and broken instead of proud and deceived.

People like you focus on little snippets of scripture like that and ignore things like...

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.


The laying apart of ALL wickedness has no place in your doctrine and that is why you NEVER refer to it. Same with...

Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Jer 25:5 They said, Turn ye again now every one from his evil way, and from the evil of your doings, and dwell in the land that the LORD hath given unto you and to your fathers for ever and ever:

Jer 26:3 If so be they will hearken, and turn every man from his evil way, that I may repent me of the evil, which I purpose to do unto them because of the evil of their doings.

2Ti_2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

All through the Bible it is very clear that God requires people to forsake evil BEFORE He forgives them.

Jesus preached REPENT and believe. Jesus even used Nineveh as an example of repentance and in Nineveh they forsook their wickedness BEFORE God granted them mercy.

Yet sin defenders like you ignore all those verses and act as if they don't exist and pick and choose very select portions of the Bible which you can raise up and use to imply that the sin does not have to stop. Somehow the idea of forsaking sin to you is "proud and self righteous."
 
Nov 26, 2011
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I think she sums it up very clearly skinski, I'm not the judge, but I know justice happens one way or the other. There is no fooling God. If one thinks he can play christian and go molest children, I'm sure God will have a answer for it, be it in this life or the next. I know things happen with good reason that we don't understand. I'm not going to try to understand something that is in Gods control.
What many people do though is make an allowance for the "occasional" willful sin in salvation. Thus they will claim that one cannot "habitually" engage in sin. When the Bible speaks of not "habitually" engaging in sin it is speaking of a pattern of one's life and the sin that one may occasionally fall prey to are sins of ignorance. Never is willful transgression acceptable.

It only takes one act of willful transgression to bring one into a state of condemnation just as it did with Adam and Eve.

Salvation is inclusive of heart purity and a pure heart will never choose evil. For evil to be chosen the heart must be defiled. An individual with a pure heart can defile their heart by turning away from God but such a person is no longer in a saved state.

The false gospel must reject heart purity in salvation for if they were to accept it their entire theological system would collapse. The cross that these people preach is merely a provision which they trust in. They will never use what the book of Hebrews teaches about why Christ died because it does not align with the forensic transfer doctrine. They use rhetoric instead of scripture to promote their view.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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the other day I agreed with you. now I disagree. God cleans us after we come to him, not what you just said. behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. the father said get a robe and sandals for the prodigal son when he returned. I could go on. get clean then come to God dead wrong. stopping sin and rebellion you are correct. AFTER we get saved, not TO get saved. wrong on this big time.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
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Skinski, I have to put you on my ignore list for the future because it is not possible to converse with you, you simply arent listening what others are saying. Not one person here says that we should continue in the same way as when we didnt know God. The law is written on our hearts - it should be a no brainer that God wont embrace deliberate evil and that people who try to trample His grace will not end well.
My own works and efforts did not bring any good change in me. But faith in God did produce good fruit. Even repentance and chastizement for sins are gifts from God. He is the author and finisher of our faith. All the credit goes to Him, NOT to me. By myself I am wretched. God works, what I need to do is believe, and He will conform me to the image of His son.

2 Timothy 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
Acts 11:18 ...Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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There was a former concept of righteous works under the law, initiated by Abel before the law. If a righteous work of the old testament record satisfied God, then the least of the priests of Israel was as great as Jesus. So would have been the one bringing a sacrifice to a priest.

If a man sacrificed a single animal, kept one law, then to him is holder of the same righteousness that is in Christ?

Right-standing before God was a temporary experience, the continuance in it being dependent upon frequent sacrifices. Those that ministered sacrifices that served to admit the need for forgiveness were good ones, though none attested to repentance from sin. They all performed a temporary covering by the blood of animals. None of that amounted to the inner righteousness God requires for eternal life. The people doing those things of old didn't receive the promise of God for the righteous in God. They received whatever blessings were tied to obedience, or curses for disobedience, nothing more.

All along no worldly lamb blood had eternal value, the partakers of which lacked eternal value. But not the partakers of the blood of Jesus, for by Jesus alone can a man receive eternal benefits. Eternal righteousness was therefore strictly imputed by God for Jesus' blood sake, based on the blood, not on obedience to do good works to qualify.

Imputed righteousness enables the bearer to then do works of righteousness by a new "nature", which is technically a poor word for it. The new born again inner man is brought from the dead to the living to serve God because he has received that righteousness by faith, because of the grace plan of God through Jesus. The ancients had very limited instances of benefiting from the grace of God, a few having righteousness imputed to them case by case. Today, by the New Covenant, all who call upon Jesus come into that plan of grace, available through faith.
Yet Paul specifically states that God reckons FAITH as righteousness and in that very passage Paul quotes David whom connects the "heart without guile" to the "forgiveness of sins." That concept cannot be thrown out the window.

The modern teaching of imputed righteousness ignore that and instead teaches that the actual "righteousness of Jesus" or "obedience of Jesus" is credited to the sinners account while they are still wicked.

Here is an example of that teaching...

[video=youtube;IapqqQ45Q4w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IapqqQ45Q4w[/video]

These folks ignore what the Bible actually states and use mere rhetoric to convince people what they say is true. They have an aura of authority being "well educated theologians" yet what they claim is the complete opposite of the Bible.

In the Old Testament a pure heart was still a requirement. God commanded people to love Him with all their heart, soul and mind and their neighbour as themselves. Yes it is true that the animal sacrifice in and of itself would not bring reconciliation but faith and repentance would. The redemption from the dominion of sin via a kinsman redeemer was yet in the future but they had the promise to hold onto, thus if they served God in good faith they would be accepted.

The whole purpose of blood sacrifice is to affect a means by which we can approach God. The book of Hebrews is very clear on this, the blood of Christ is what puts the New Covenant into effect, it is the signature of God so to speak. Thus we approach God by the means put before us in the same repentance and faith that existed in the Old Covenant, the only real difference now is that the church has been made manifest, the Gentiles have been grafted into Israel and we may all be partakers in the inheritance through Jesus Christ.

Abraham was reckoned as righteous by God due to His faith. Abraham had a faith that trusted and obeyed God, Abraham was yielded to God and God looked at the heart of Abraham and counted him as righteous apart from any imperfections he had due to ignorance, also apart from any past sin in his life.

What has happened in the modern day is that the lie of "you can sin and not surely die" has embedded in modern theology and therefore the imputation of righteousness is viewed as a CLOAK for ongoing wickedness. It is viewed as a foreign righteousness being applied to a still wicked individual when the Bible clearly explains that the faith that is reckoned as righteousness works by love, love works no ill, establishes the law in the heart, and walks according to the will of God.

Modern theology presents faith as passive evidence by only partial obedience. Thus the door is left open for a continuation of sin. It is a very dangerous thing to believe.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
the other day I agreed with you. now I disagree. God cleans us after we come to him, not what you just said. behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. the father said get a robe and sandals for the prodigal son when he returned. I could go on. get clean then come to God dead wrong. stopping sin and rebellion you are correct. AFTER we get saved, not TO get saved. wrong on this big time.
As jesus said, He came to save sinners, not the righteous.