look here -- no insertion of "he loved us, then we obeyed perfectly every commandment and attained all by ourselves a righteousness greater than the Pharisees -- and then, only after that, did He make us alive in Christ"
i don't read Greek, but i can tell the difference between a room with an elephant in it and a room without one!
see? look, Greek, no punctuation, all one sentence, speaking in past tense about what has already occurred:
[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="class: maintext, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: top, width: 17%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Strong's[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 20%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Transliteration[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Greek[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]English[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Morphology[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]
2532 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]
kai[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]καὶ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]even[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]
Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]
1510 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]
ontas[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ὄντας[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]being[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]
V-PPA-AMP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]
1473 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]
hēmas[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἡμᾶς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]we[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]
PPro-A1P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]
3498 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]
nekrous[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]νεκροὺς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]dead[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]
Adj-AMP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]
3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]
tois[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τοῖς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]
Art-DNP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]
3900 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]
paraptōmasin[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]παραπτώμασιν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]in trespasses,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]
N-DNP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]
4806 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]
synezōopoiēsen[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]συνεζωοποίησεν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]made alive [us] with[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]
V-AIA-3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]
3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]
tō[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τῷ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]
Art-DMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]
5547 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]
Christō[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]Χριστῷ,—[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]Christ,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]
N-DMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]
5485 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]
chariti[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]χάριτί[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]by grace[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]
N-DFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]
1510 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]
este[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἐστε[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]you are[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]
V-PIA-2P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]
4982 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]
sesōsmenoi[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]σεσῳσμένοι,—[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]saved,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]
V-RPM/P-NMP[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
life and peace, given in grace -- by grace you are saved. passing from death to life by the work of a Redeemer.
are you going all "normative" on me now? assuming a bunch that's not there? (see post #174, still un-replied-to)
thanks.