Yes, I am aware of how the Jews separate the Law into different sections. I believe a New Testament believer only obeys the moral law from the Old Testament because we are changed spiritually by Christ to follllow the Law of Love under the New Testament (Written upon our hearts). Christ fulfilled the entire package of the Law in the OT except certain End Times prophecies. For the Law also referred to the Law and the prophets (i.e. prophecies), too. It is only the moral law and various commands under the New Testament Jesus gave us that apply to us. We obey these things not so as to be saved, but because we have been saved.
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K
This is why you miss the mark when it comes to study if that is how you look at it, as the bible was written by Jews and the OT was given to Jews and written by how they apply it. You can not just take and throw out how God had lead them on how to apply the law back in those days to change it to how you want it to be now.
It was all made up 613 written ordinances, but those were divided by their own teachings into the moral, ceremonial, and sacrificial laws. People did not just make up these different parts of the law in recent now day teachings, they have always been looked on in this way.
from all its posts, i think this whole thread is meant to deceive - after all, demons are the king of lawlessness.
no worries about legalism, torah, God's Word, or Yahshua being Lord --- no worries at all when lawlessness is it - the demons
love
it.
of course, no salvation either.
just in case he/she/it /any reader may have been immersed in any of the many cults on earth that use absolute observation of their rules to be a member - so they have been traumatized by a perverse kind of religion/legalism/ not of God;
the recovery from legalism of a cult and also of lawlessness of demons is only from,by,and in God's Mercy. ---
the obedience of the son to the father is seen all through OT and NT, and is merciful, joyful, wonderful, strict, and with judgment (right-ruling, good appraising all things, recognizing what father says is good- abiding with him).
the obedience to any of the cults is none of those things. - no thinking needed. no salvation through it.
likewise the obedience to nothing, lawlessness, is nothing - no thinking needed. and also, no salvation to those who are lawless to God's Own Law. God's Law is Good , as His Word Says, as He Says.
no worries about legalism, torah, God's Word, or Yahshua being Lord --- no worries at all when lawlessness is it - the demons
love
it.
of course, no salvation either.
just in case he/she/it /any reader may have been immersed in any of the many cults on earth that use absolute observation of their rules to be a member - so they have been traumatized by a perverse kind of religion/legalism/ not of God;
the recovery from legalism of a cult and also of lawlessness of demons is only from,by,and in God's Mercy. ---
the obedience of the son to the father is seen all through OT and NT, and is merciful, joyful, wonderful, strict, and with judgment (right-ruling, good appraising all things, recognizing what father says is good- abiding with him).
the obedience to any of the cults is none of those things. - no thinking needed. no salvation through it.
likewise the obedience to nothing, lawlessness, is nothing - no thinking needed. and also, no salvation to those who are lawless to God's Own Law. God's Law is Good , as His Word Says, as He Says.
Slow down and listen to what I am saying. You are pushing a belief on me that is not true. I believe only 9 out of the 10 Commandments are still binding for the believer. The Sabbath is no longer a binding Command for New Covenant believers. As I said before, Romans 13 says if we love our neighbor, we fulfill the Law (i.e. the Moral Law). We love our neighbor not because we all of a sudden just decide to become better people one day. No, no. Most certainly not. That would be silly. We are better because we have been changed spiritually by Jesus Christ and He lives within us. He lives within us to help us to love Him (Who is God Almighty in the flesh) and he helps us to love other people (Including our enemies) (Which fulfills the moral law, preaching the gospel, and helping the poor, etc. under the New Testament).
M
Binding? but not under? Your playing word games....The law of Christ to love is binding! that's true obedience!
And you have a big problem with the evident word of God!
Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
And you have a big problem with the evident word of God!
Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
K
[h=1]Matthew 22:37-49[/h]37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment.39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
[h=1]Romans 13:8-10[/h]
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
[h=1]Romans 13:8-10[/h]
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
M
So again love is obedience and clearly legalism is not!
Ro 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Ro 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
K
You take away from the context of what is being said by the person God worked through to write the OT scriptures, and how they were used. If the laws were misused in teaching then God would have mentioned so, and changed the aspect of how it was delivered.
Even when the Lord came He did not do away with the teachings of the law, as He even told others to pay attention and do what the Pharisees said. Because they taught the law, but then he told them not to do what they did because in their actions they twisted and misused the law that they taught. Using if for greed and power, which was not the moral aspect of what it was for but they twist it for such self gain and self righteousness.
So if the Jews miss-taught the law by dividing it into these parts then the Lord would have told others to completely ignore everything they taught. He did not as they gave the law as God deemed appropriate.
So you don't think coveting is not a binding command for believers? Do you think we have been delivered from the Law of coveting? Paul says we fulfill these laws by Loving our neighbor (Romans 13). Which is what you have been saying, yes? I agree. We are on the same page for the most part. But just because I say a law that is done of out love is binding does not mean I am seeking to justify myself by the Law of Moses or a set of rules in and of itself alone. The moral law is obeyed because one obeys the law of love that is written in their hearts when they are changed spiritually by Jesus Christ.
As for Romans 7 (again): Yes, Romans 7:6 says we have been delievered from the Law. But then Paul asks, Is the Law sin? He replies, God forbid. The Law was a school master to bring us unto Christ. Once we have come to Christ we do not throw away everything we have learned. There are some things in the OT we still obey out of love. Like not coveting, not stealing, not lying, etc. Again, we do this out of love and not legalism or some kind of false rules based salvation system.
As for Romans 7 (again): Yes, Romans 7:6 says we have been delievered from the Law. But then Paul asks, Is the Law sin? He replies, God forbid. The Law was a school master to bring us unto Christ. Once we have come to Christ we do not throw away everything we have learned. There are some things in the OT we still obey out of love. Like not coveting, not stealing, not lying, etc. Again, we do this out of love and not legalism or some kind of false rules based salvation system.
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K
We do not look at the moral laws of God based within the 10 commandments as a set of laws, for they are a natural everyday way of life.
The same can be said as an example, when you were growing up your parents trained you in ways on how to act.
As you become a young adult to an adult you still carried those ways with you, not as a way of doing what you were told to do, but just come natural to you to walk in.
This is how the moral law of God based within the 10 commandments are looked at in a born again believer.
By walking in love we grow in the Spirit to become a mature Christian through Christ to walk in those standards of keeping those commands naturally.
M
Its NOT binding by the legal code...its binding by the law of love. When a believer walks in the law of love, they don't look to take from others they look to give...They don't make idols of things in this worlds, God is their soul desire and focus.
Now can the law be a witness to love? Sure! Can the law help teach us the truths of walking in the Spirit? sure!
Besides you have a real problem that "thou shalt not covet" produces sinful lust to covet in the flesh of all who are under the law.
Now can the law be a witness to love? Sure! Can the law help teach us the truths of walking in the Spirit? sure!
Besides you have a real problem that "thou shalt not covet" produces sinful lust to covet in the flesh of all who are under the law.
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M
For its purpose...and its true standard... read in context!
Ro 3:19 ¶ Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Ro 3:19 ¶ Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.