The forgotten teachings of Christ

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WheresEnoch

Guest
#121
#121
Mitspa said:
Right faith and love is obedience, not the letter of the law of Moses. Real faith has real works of faith, real love has real works of love. Like Rahab the harlot...
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I'm not entirely sure if we are in agreement or not to be honest.
What I am saying is, those in sin are not being obedient and loving towards Christ.
And those continuing in sin are not abiding in Christ
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#122
#122
WheresEnoch said:
I'm not entirely sure if we are in agreement or not to be honest.
What I am saying is, those in sin are not being obedient and loving towards Christ.
And those continuing in sin are not abiding in Christ
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Well the law is the strength of sin and grace is the power over sin...so we have to set people free from the law so they will be set free from sin... right?

Ro 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
 
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WheresEnoch

Guest
#123
#123
Mitspa said:
Right don't turn back to dead works of the law...or teachings about the law...and those who turn from grace back to the law are in grave danger.
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Again, I'm not sure if we are in saying the same thing.
Repentance from dead works , means turning from sin.
Let us not fall back into sin and have to relay that foundation.
Let us reach spiritual maturity and not be slaves to sin ever again.
Let us never choose to sin in our thoughts, words, actions ever again
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#124
#124
WheresEnoch said:
Again, I'm not sure if we are in saying the same thing.
Repentance from dead works , means turning from sin.
Let us not fall back into sin and have to relay that foundation.
Let us reach spiritual maturity and not be slaves to sin ever again.
Let us never choose to sin in our thoughts, words, actions ever again
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No repentance from dead works is works of the law...

Ro 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

And again the strength of sin, is the law.
 
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WheresEnoch

Guest
#125
#125
Mitspa said:
No repentance from dead works is works of the law...

Ro 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

And again the strength of sin, is the law.
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They sought to be justified by observing the law apart from Christ. It's not the same thing
Observing the law apart from Christ can not justify anyone
 
W

WheresEnoch

Guest
#126
#126
In Hebrews 6 Paul is literally saying, let us not fall into sin and have to re lay that foundation. But, God permitting, let us move on to Spiritual maturity to the point where we no longer walk by the flesh.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#127
#127
WheresEnoch said:
They sought to be justified by observing the law apart from Christ. It's not the same thing
Observing the law apart from Christ can not justify anyone
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No the scripture clearly says they sought it by the works of the law and not by faith...the law is not of faith and that is the "repentance from dead works" in the book of Hebrews.
 
W

WheresEnoch

Guest
#128
#128
Mitspa said:
No the scripture clearly says they sought it by the works of the law and not by faith...the law is not of faith and that is the "repentance from dead works" in the book of Hebrews.
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Yes, they did not have faith in Christ.
They observed the law as if it would save them. But they did not have faith in Christ, which is where they stumbled.
It is not saying that those who live by faith are supposed to live in sin
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#129
#129
WheresEnoch said:
In Hebrews 6 Paul is literally saying, let us not fall into sin and have to re lay that foundation. But, God permitting, let us move on to Spiritual maturity to the point where we no longer walk by the flesh.
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Paul is talking about the sin of unbelief ...turning back to the law!

Heb 3Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.:
17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

The law is not of faith!
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#130
#130
WheresEnoch said:
Yes, they did not have faith in Christ.
They observed the law as if it would save them. But they did not have faith in Christ, which is where they stumbled.
It is not saying that those who live by faith are supposed to live in sin
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The strength of sin is the law...so you cant mean folks are supposed to be under the law to be free from sin.
 
W

WheresEnoch

Guest
#131
#131
We can literally be set free from the law.
Not set free from the penalty of the law while still breaking it.
But honestly set free from the law to the point that we do not ever break it (God permitting).
By living in the Spirit and crucifying the flesh with Christ.

IF a saint sins, they confess, repent, and turn from that sin. They will be forgiven.
But a true saint will not continue in those dead works which break the law
 
MarcR

MarcR

Senior Member
#132
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#132
WheresEnoch said:
They sought to be justified by observing the law apart from Christ. It's not the same thing
Observing the law apart from Christ can not justify anyone
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WheresEnoch,

I think we may have a different understanding of the purpose of the Law.

I believe the primary intent of the law was to persuade mankind that we are not able to please God in our own efforts.

I believe that Jesus' death on the cross was necessary BECAUSE we can't please God in our own efforts.

I believe that true Salvation subsumes that ONLY dependence on Jesus sacrifice on the Cross can bring anyone into right relationship with God.

I believe that true salvation will lead us to desire perfect obedience; but will, at best, enable and produce habitual obedience.
 
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WheresEnoch

Guest
#133
#133
Simply read the words of Christ with this in mind and come to your own conclusion.
Then progress on to Paul and it all makes sense.

Spiritual maturity is not the work of man. But the work of God in men who are obedient and honest disciples of Christ
 
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WheresEnoch

Guest
#134
#134
The word obedience can give the wrong impression.
Obedience is truly loving God and people more than yourself.
Not love in thought only, but action as well
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#135
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#135
Matthew 11:28-30
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

What is this rest the Lord Jesus Christ is talking about? Rest from our works at the law?

So you mean we are under the law until we come to Christ? We are under sin and death until we come to the Way, the Truth, and the Life?

Galatians 3:23-25

[SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#136
#136
WheresEnoch said:
We can literally be set free from the law.
Not set free from the penalty of the law while still breaking it.
But honestly set free from the law to the point that we do not ever break it (God permitting).
By living in the Spirit and crucifying the flesh with Christ.

IF a saint sins, they confess, repent, and turn from that sin. They will be forgiven.
But a true saint will not continue in those dead works which break the law
Click to expand...
What? so your kinda set free but not really? That's not a biblical standard...If your saying the moral good we see in the law is fulfilled in the Spirit by faith and love...I agree.
 
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WheresEnoch

Guest
#137
#137
Grandpa said:
Matthew 11:28-30
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

What is this rest the Lord Jesus Christ is talking about? Rest from our works at the law?

So you mean we are under the law until we come to Christ? We are under sin and death until we come to the Way, the Truth, and the Life?

Galatians 3:23-25

[SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Click to expand...

Yes you see, the Law only told us, "Do not do this! Do not do that!"
It only made us aware of our sinfulness. It did not teach us to love.
The Holy Spirit conforms us to Christ and we truly learn to love like Christ if that is what we desire.
Following Him, we become obedient (loving, self sacrificing) from the heart.

We learn to become meek and lowly in heart as He is by denying our flesh and walking in the Spirit.
Our ultimate goal is not to get to the point where we are constantly telling ourselves "Hey, you broke the law! You are so evil!" Our ultimate goal is to become so much like Christ that we cannot possibly break the law, for our love for God and others is so much greater than our love for ourselves
 
W

WheresEnoch

Guest
#138
#138
Mitspa said:
What? so your kinda set free but not really? That's not a biblical standard...If your saying the moral good we see in the law is fulfilled in the Spirit by faith and love...I agree.
Click to expand...
We are set free from ourselves.
We become children of God.

A child of God does not sin. For sin is evil and hateful, the opposite of love
 
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WheresEnoch

Guest
#139
#139
And the first step on the path to Christ, is first turning from our wickedness.
We may not be very loving at first, it may be very hard.
But Spiritual maturity will quickly follow and the Holy Spirit will set us free
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#140
#140
WheresEnoch said:
We are set free from ourselves.
We become children of God.

A child of God does not sin. For sin is evil and hateful, the opposite of love
Click to expand...
Well a child of God is justified by Christ, and in Him we cannot sin. I hope you see the difference between saying you don't sin and saying in Him you cannot sin?
 
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