Misconceptions about the Bible.

[know1]

1) that certain people think see saws are in th bible

2) that there were 3 wise men - we know there was more than one but it doesn't say how many.

3) that the wise men visited Jesus the night he was born in the stable, the bible said they went to a house, also it was more than likely Jesus was a toddler by then. Herod enquired when they had first seen the star and based on this he arranged for male children under two to be put to death.

4) that cleanliness is next to godliness is a verse from the bible.

Well, thanks for that little tidbit of info concerning the cleanliness. My wife keep telling me that saying and that it is in the bible, but I never looked it up. That's like saying, 'money is the root of all evil', like my father use to say. That's not in the bible either, but I have heard even Christians say that.

 

[WheresEnoch]

Well, thanks for that little tidbit of info concerning the cleanliness. My wife keep telling me that saying and that it is in the bible, but I never looked it up. That's like saying, 'money is the root of all evil', like my father use to say. That's not in the bible either, but I have heard even Christians say that.

Lol too true, people are always saying pseudo-bible phrases, hear them all the time. Wouldn't everything be so much simpler if money really was the root of all evil?

 

[p_rehbein]

Question for the OP I saw recently while studying/preparing for a message that I had read but not "seen" before.

How many Thieves were crucified with Jesus? We always see 3 crosses, but I do not think that is accurate.
Here is why is say this and I am open to correction if I am wrong.

Matthew 27.38-44 says 2 as well, but in verse 44, we again see that those who were crucified with him also insulted him.

Mark 15.27-32 says 2,
one on the right and one on the left, but also repeats Isaiah 53.12 and that he was numbered with the transgressors

It also say in Mark 15.32 that the others that were crucified with him.


Luke 23.32-43 tells us 2, one rebuked him and the other repented and mentions nothing else.

The Gospel of John does not record the thieves who were crucified with him.

If there were only 2 robbers, then based on what Matt 27.44 and Mark 15.32 says, the repentant theif mocked Jesus, then repented!?!

-OR-

Were there more than 2 that were crucified with Jesus that day? while to his immediate left and right were 2 robbers and one repented and the unrepentant thief did not. Could it be that the unrepentant thief and "others that were crucified with him" hurled insults and mocked Jesus?

We know the word does not contradict itself, so were there were more than 3 crucified that day?
Or did the repentant robber mock first then repent?

I studied out this and there is historical basis that up to 10 could be crucified a day, but nothing really concrete.

Thoughts?

According to the Articles on this I have read (google the subject to see many discussions) the differing accounts are credited to the location of the disciples at the time of His crucifixion. Most were not close enough to fully understand what was spoken by the two thieves, or Jesus, and relied on second hand accounts, which could have been misconstrued.

I accept what is recorded in Luke. The repentant thief who was told by Jesus that he would be in Paradise that day with Jesus. There are theological ideologies that do not like this account of a persons salvation because it does not fit with what their churches teach. Maybe that is part of the issue.

Dunno...............these are just my thoughts.

 

[know1]

Question for the OP I saw recently while studying/preparing for a message that I had read but not "seen" before.

How many Thieves were crucified with Jesus? We always see 3 crosses, but I do not think that is accurate.
Here is why is say this and I am open to correction if I am wrong.

Matthew 27.38-44 says 2 as well, but in verse 44, we again see that those who were crucified with him also insulted him.

Mark 15.27-32 says 2,
one on the right and one on the left, but also repeats Isaiah 53.12 and that he was numbered with the transgressors

It also say in Mark 15.32 that the others that were crucified with him.


Luke 23.32-43 tells us 2, one rebuked him and the other repented and mentions nothing else.

The Gospel of John does not record the thieves who were crucified with him.

If there were only 2 robbers, then based on what Matt 27.44 and Mark 15.32 says, the repentant theif mocked Jesus, then repented!?!

-OR-

Were there more than 2 that were crucified with Jesus that day? while to his immediate left and right were 2 robbers and one repented and the unrepentant thief did not. Could it be that the unrepentant thief and "others that were crucified with him" hurled insults and mocked Jesus?

We know the word does not contradict itself, so were there were more than 3 crucified that day?
Or did the repentant robber mock first then repent?

I studied out this and there is historical basis that up to 10 could be crucified a day, but nothing really concrete.

Thoughts?

Sir, I have examined the 4 gospels concerning your post and they all say that there were only two that were crucified with Jesus.
In Mt verse 44 mentions "the thieves", but if you look up at verse 38, you will see that the two who were crucified with Him were called 'thieves'. So 44 is referring to verse 38.
In Mk the transgressors were the two thieves mentioned in the previous verse, and in verse 32 note the words, "with Him", speaking of the two that were crucified with Him.
Lk says in verse 39"And one of the malefactors...", but in the following verse he says, "But the other...", as in singular. Not others, but other one, as in only two.
In Jn verse 18 it mentions only two, the one on one side and the other on the opposite side. Also in verse 32, "... brake the legs of the first and of the other..." Again, not others, plural, as in more than two, but other, singular, as in only two.
It is a good point brought up, and I am open to ideas like this one, but upon examining the subject in question, I personally think and see only two that were crucified with Jesus and no more.
Thank for your post.

 

[Mo0448]

It might have been a unique type of tree that we have never seen, but we have all tasted the fruit

well knowing the theorized location of the Garden of Eden (Mesopotamia) or modern day Iraq area, we can postulate that the Fruit might actually have been a pomegranate. At least that's how I've heard / seen it conveyed.

 

[Tintin]

well knowing the theorized location of the Garden of Eden (Mesopotamia) or modern day Iraq area, we can postulate that the Fruit might actually have been a pomegranate. At least that's how I've heard / seen it conveyed.

This implies that there never was a global Flood, which there most certainly was. We don't know where the Garden of Eden was, so there's no point speculating. There was nothing left over from the pre-Flood world (save Noah, his family and fauna and flora etc.)

 

[know1]

You are correct; but if I say: Hold them for 3 nights and three days and deliver them on the third day; the expected delivery gets moved to Thursday.

Thank you sir.
For some reason, everyone seems to miss the "nights" part.
Jesus is the one who said 3 days and nights. Man is the one who assumed it to be from Friday to Sunday, and those who follow this erred date are the ones arguing for the men who started it. The days of the week Jesus was in the belly of the earth are not written, but the number of days and nights are.

 

[know1]

Luke 23.32-43 tells us 2, one rebuked him and the other repented and mentions nothing else.

The only repentance the bible talks about for someone to receive salvation, such as this thief on the cross with Christ, is from doubting to believing that He was the Christ, the savior of the world. For He called Him Lord and mentions when He comes into His kingdom.
Repentance from dead works, are for the Christian, that they may be healed, delivered, and keep their salvation.
Repentance from doubting to believing, are for the unbelievers to salvation.
Galations says we are save by grace through faith..., not through repentance from dead works and faith.
The Christians were told to purge their conscience from dead works, not the unbelievers.

 

[atwhatcost]

you obviously did not understand what he said when he said what he said not understanding that you wouldn't understand what he said when he said what he said without understanding

Can you say that three times fast?

 

[JimmieD]

Question for the OP I saw recently while studying/preparing for a message that I had read but not "seen" before.

How many Thieves were crucified with Jesus? We always see 3 crosses, but I do not think that is accurate.
Here is why is say this and I am open to correction if I am wrong.

Matthew 27.38-44 says 2 as well, but in verse 44, we again see that those who were crucified with him also insulted him.

Mark 15.27-32 says 2,
one on the right and one on the left, but also repeats Isaiah 53.12 and that he was numbered with the transgressors

It also say in Mark 15.32 that the others that were crucified with him.


Luke 23.32-43 tells us 2, one rebuked him and the other repented and mentions nothing else.

The Gospel of John does not record the thieves who were crucified with him.

If there were only 2 robbers, then based on what Matt 27.44 and Mark 15.32 says, the repentant theif mocked Jesus, then repented!?!

-OR-

Were there more than 2 that were crucified with Jesus that day? while to his immediate left and right were 2 robbers and one repented and the unrepentant thief did not. Could it be that the unrepentant thief and "others that were crucified with him" hurled insults and mocked Jesus?

We know the word does not contradict itself, so were there were more than 3 crucified that day?
Or did the repentant robber mock first then repent?

I studied out this and there is historical basis that up to 10 could be crucified a day, but nothing really concrete.

Thoughts?

Josephus indicates that 800 could be crucified on occasion (Antiquities 13.14.2) or 500 (War 5.11.1) or 2000 (Antiquities 17.10.10)

In any case, what is interesting to me about those crucified with Jesus is that criminals were only crucified by the Romans for the sentence of sedition/treason against the state. Romans didn't crucify petty criminals, thieves in the common sense of the word. It stands to reason that whoever was crucified with Jesus was also guilty of rebellion against Rome just as Jesus was, and curiously enough, the word for "thieves" can alternately be understood to be a rebel. The word used to describe the men as "thieves" is curiously the same word Josephus uses to denote a rebel, specifically he uses it to describe the Zealots and their leaders. It's also used in the LXX of Jeremiah 7:11 (the same passage Jesus quotes when turning over the tables in the temple) to describe undisciplined soldiers, outlaws or bandits of some sort.

It stands to reason that the criminals crucified with Jesus were crucified for rebellion. It's also this charge that Barabbas was facing - he had murdered someone during some insurrection. Jesus and those crucified with him were executed for treason; for rebellion.

What's also interesting to ask is - what rebellion? What insurrection was Barabbas a part of? In what insurrection were these rebels picked up so that they would be crucified with Jesus? We shouldn't imagine that the Romans held death row inmates in prison cells for years on end. If someone was guilty of treason, they took him outside the city and executed him on a cross, much like they did with Jesus. They didn't wait - punishment was immediate. Wherever Barabbas and these other guys were picked up, it would have been very near the time when Jesus was arrested.

Josephus mentions a litany of many would-be messianic movements and many upstart rebellions, but none around the time of when Jesus was arrested except for one - Jesus' messianic movement.

 

[atwhatcost]

Well, thanks for that little tidbit of info concerning the cleanliness. My wife keep telling me that saying and that it is in the bible, but I never looked it up. That's like saying, 'money is the root of all evil', like my father use to say. That's not in the bible either, but I have heard even Christians say that.

Love of money is the root of all evil. 1Tim 6:10

 

[p_rehbein]

Jesus was also guilty of rebellion against Rome just as Jesus was


You are saying Jesus was crucified because the Roman Government found Him guilty of rebellion against Rome?

Scripture please?

 

[JimmieD]

Jesus was also guilty of rebellion against Rome just as Jesus was


You are saying Jesus was crucified because the Roman Government found Him guilty of rebellion against Rome?

Scripture please?

(1) Romans only crucified people for rebellion, for crimes against the state. They didn't crucify petty thieves or common criminals. They did have punishments for such people, but crucifixion wasn't one of them. If Pilate had (or allowed) Jesus to be crucified, it would have been because he thought Jesus had done something against the state. Indeed, claiming to be a king would have been treasonous - there was only one king to the Romans and that was Caesar. Why is Pilate's first question to Jesus: Matt 27:11 “Are you the king of the Jews?”

This is the charge the high priest had to bring up on Jesus to Pilate, otherwise Pilate wouldn't crucify him.

(2) The charge against Jesus was put above his head for all to see:

Matt 27:37 Above his head they put the charge against him, which read:“ This is Jesus, the king of the Jews.”

The point of the inscription was to display for all passersby why Jesus was hanging on a cross. He was claiming to be the messiah, the king of the Jews. The warning for everyone else would have been clear - this is what happens if you think you're a king.

 

[JimmieD]

This would also strangely be the first time I've argued with a Christian about Jesus indeed claiming to be the messiah and being crucified for the claim. Most seem to take this as being understood. Rome was known for crucifying messiah claimers (Jesus wasn't the only Jew to head a messianic movement).

 

[DesiredHaven]

Mark 15:9 But Pilate answered them, saying, Will ye that I release unto you the King of the Jews?

Mark 15:14 Then Pilate said unto them, Why, what evil hath he done? And they cried out the more exceedingly, Crucify him.

Pilate would have released him, they cried crucified him, and after stating Will ye that I release unto you the King of the Jews? he asks, why (to crucifying him) knowing this and asks what evil hath he done?

 

[Mo0448]

This implies that there never was a global Flood, which there most certainly was. We don't know where the Garden of Eden was, so there's no point speculating. There was nothing left over from the pre-Flood world (save Noah, his family and fauna and flora etc.

With all due respect Tintin, I'm confused as where I implied there was no flood if you could clarify. There is actually plenty of historical and geographical evidence to suggest that it was in the Mesopotamia region and plenty of Christian Historians have written on the subject. I'll have to see if I can pull up any additional info. My intention is not to start an argument but solely convey that my conclusion has backing and I'm not poking holes in anything the bible clearly states.

Take care sir!

 

[Tintin]

With all due respect Tintin, I'm confused as where I implied there was no flood if you could clarify. There is actually plenty of historical and geographical evidence to suggest that it was in the Mesopotamia region and plenty of Christian Historians have written on the subject. I'll have to see if I can pull up any additional info. My intention is not to start an argument but solely convey that my conclusion has backing and I'm not poking holes in anything the bible clearly states.

Take care sir!

Hi brother. Sorry, I didn't mean to accuse you of not believing in a global Flood (although, sadly, there are many Christians who don't). Your post suggested that the Garden of Eden was in Mesopotamia. The only problem with that is, if there was a global Flood (which there most assuredly was) it would have done great violence to the earth. The continents were broken up during the Flood, so what is the Mesopotamia now, wasn't back then. For example, the Tigris and Euphrates rivers we have today (post-Flood) were named by Noah and his family or their descendants, in memory of the pre-Flood world, which included the then forbidden Garden of Eden. This was likely because the area was an incredibly fertile land at the time - a fantastic location to begin civilization.

 

[DesiredHaven]

Mark 15:9 But Pilate answered them, saying, Will ye that I release unto you the King of the Jews?

Mark 15:14 Then Pilate said unto them, Why, what evil hath he done? And they cried out the more exceedingly, Crucify him.

Pilate would have released him, they cried crucified him, and after stating Will ye that I release unto you the King of the Jews? he asks, why (to crucifying him) knowing this and asks what evil hath he done?

Just to clarify better

Here shows Pilate would have released him, see last verse especially

Acts 4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

Acts 4:28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

Acts 13:27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.

John 12:27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say?

Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.

Isaiah 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

Mark 15:4 And Pilate asked him again, saying,

Answerest thou nothing? behold how many things they witness against thee.

Mark 5:5 But Jesus yet answered nothing; so that Pilate marvelled.

Mark 15:9 But Pilate answered them, saying, Will ye that I release unto you the King of the Jews?

Mark 15:14 Then Pilate said unto them, Why, what evil hath he done?

And they cried out the more exceedingly, Crucify him.

Mat 27:24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made,

he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.

Mat 27:25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

Mat 27:26 Then released he Barabbas unto them:

and when he had scourged Jesus, he delivered him to be crucified.

Acts 13:28 And though they found no cause of death in him,

yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain.

Acts 8:3 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.

Acts 13:3 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

 

[RickyZ]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a day was from 6 in the morning to 6 in the evening, and then it was night, which went from 6 in the evening to 6 in the morning.

Actually, the 24 hour period known as a 'day' began at sunset.

 

[JimmieD]

Mark 15:9 But Pilate answered them, saying, Will ye that I release unto you the King of the Jews?

Mark 15:14 Then Pilate said unto them, Why, what evil hath he done? And they cried out the more exceedingly, Crucify him.

Pilate would have released him, they cried crucified him, and after stating Will ye that I release unto you the King of the Jews? he asks, why (to crucifying him) knowing this and asks what evil hath he done?

I note no real argument against my points, just an attempt to run around them. (1) Romans crucified those convicted of crimes against Rome - claiming to be king of the Jews was such a crime. There was only 1 king to Rome - Caesar (just as the crowds say). (2) The charge on which Pilate had Jesus crucified (or allowed Jesus to be crucified, however you want to look at it) was placed on the cross, and it was that Jesus claimed to be king of the Jews. This is the reason the sign is on the cross, it's the reason Jesus was being executed by the Romans.

Pilate mocking the whole group or Jesus is irrelevant. Nor should we imagine that Pilate was so fearful of everything that he just threw Jesus over to them, and let them use his soldiers to do their bidding. No, Pilate was an extremely brutal governor who often went out of his way to offend the Jews just to prove Rome's dominance; he was known for killing en masse as he needed. It was his soldiers who carried out the execution, and it was only Rome that could legally execute anyone (especially by crucifixion) in the first place. If Pilate had thought Jesus was completely innocent of anything at all, he wouldn't have likely just capitulated. Pilate thought Jesus was guilty of at least one thing - claiming to be the king of the Jews. What probably astonished Pilate would be the crowd's insistence that he should be crucified. Normally, the people wouldn't side with Rome over one of their own. Though Jesus claimed to be king, it wasn't clear to Pilate that he had done anything violent and so deserving of their condemnation. Most messianic claimers Rome had trouble with were violent revolutionaries; Jesus didn't quite fit the modus operandi. But Pilate did think he was guilty of claiming to be a king as Pilate's actions demonstrate.

This is interesting. I didn't know Jesus claiming to be the messiah and being crucified because of it would have been so controversial. I took it as a given that we Christians not only believed Jesus claimed to be the messiah but that we also believed Jesus' claim.

Do you believe that Jesus claimed to be the Messiah?