Misconceptions about the Bible.

[DesiredHaven]

I note no real argument against my points, just an attempt to run around them. (1) Romans crucified those convicted of crimes against Rome - claiming to be king of the Jews was such a crime. There was only 1 king to Rome - Caesar (just as the crowds say). (2) The charge on which Pilate had Jesus crucified (or allowed Jesus to be crucified, however you want to look at it) was placed on the cross, and it was that Jesus claimed to be king of the Jews. This is the reason the sign is on the cross, it's the reason Jesus was being executed by the Romans.

Pilate mocking the whole group or Jesus is irrelevant. Nor should we imagine that Pilate was so fearful of everything that he just threw Jesus over to them, and let them use his soldiers to do their bidding. No, Pilate was an extremely brutal governor who often went out of his way to offend the Jews just to prove Rome's dominance; he was known for killing en masse as he needed. It was his soldiers who carried out the execution, and it was only Rome that could legally execute anyone (especially by crucifixion) in the first place. If Pilate had thought Jesus was completely innocent of anything at all, he wouldn't have likely just capitulated. Pilate thought Jesus was guilty of at least one thing - claiming to be the king of the Jews. What probably astonished Pilate would be the crowd's insistence that he should be crucified. Normally, the people wouldn't side with Rome over one of their own. Though Jesus claimed to be king, it wasn't clear to Pilate that he had done anything violent and so deserving of their condemnation. Most messianic claimers Rome had trouble with were violent revolutionaries; Jesus didn't quite fit the modus operandi. But Pilate did think he was guilty of claiming to be a king as Pilate's actions demonstrate.

This is interesting. I didn't know Jesus claiming to be the messiah and being crucified because of it would have been so controversial. I took it as a given that we Christians believed Jesus not only claimed to be the messiah but that we believed Jesus' claim.

Do you believe that Jesus claimed to be the Messiah?

Not that post I posted another after the couple of verses, what is your arguement from scripture, your just going off outside the scripture, anyone can do that.

And Yeah I belive Jesus claimed to be Messiah

John 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

John 4:26Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

Jesus also said His Kingdom was not from hence as well

 

[JimmieD]

Not that post I posted another after the couple of verses, what is your arguement from scripture, your just going off outside the scripture, anyone can do that.

I am using historical sources, yes. I have my information about Pilate and other messianic claimants primarily from Josephus (Tacitus mentions Pilate as well). This seems perfectly acceptable. It's how historical research is usually conducted.

 

[DesiredHaven]

I am using historical sources, yes. I have my information about Pilate and other messianic claimants primarily from Josephus. This seems perfectly acceptable. It's how historical research is usually conducted.

I just use the scriptures given Jesus had to fulfill those written of the former prophets and God had this determined beforehand and Pilate would have let him go, washed his hands of who he understood to be a just man and handed him over to be crucified once they volunteered to have his blood be on their heads.

 

[JimmieD]

I just use the scriptures given Jesus had to fulfill those written of the former prophets and God had this determined beforehand and Pilate would have let him go, washed his hands of who he understood to be a just man and handed him over to be crucified once they volunteered to have his blood be on their heads.

If you don't want to use available historical information to understand who Pilate was, and just how brutal and offensive he could be, then fine. I find your argument unconvincing though given the willful ignoring of information.

 

[DesiredHaven]

If you don't want to use available historical information to understand who Pilate was, and just how brutal and offensive he could be, then fine. I find your argument unconvincing though given the willful ignoring of information.

Isnt this thread misconceptions of the bible?

Pilate was willing to let Jesus go the apostles said but not according to you correct?

Are you implying in some way that the scriptures are less correct in their witness of Jesus Christ before Pilate?

That was really what I was wondering about.

And I rather be willfully ignorant of other writings outside of the scriptures then willfully ignorant of the word of God, I was showing how being King was already being used by Pilate when he states so much before the crowd and using the same place in scripture which shows how Pilate would let Jesus go as the apostles state the same.


If you find the scriptures on that unconvincing on that point, thats on you, I certainly dont care.

I am only interested in discussing the scriptures and have no interest in additional info on Pilate outside of what the scriptures have to say about him because its just not important to me.

Especially if anyone will take such information and just use it to make an argument which stands contrary to the scriptures.

Thats if in fact they are doing so.

 

[JimmieD]

Isnt this thread misconceptions of the bible?

Is this an excuse to ignore available information?

Pilate was willing to let Jesus go the apostles said but not according to you correct?

I'm saying Pilate had Jesus crucified for being a rebel. The reason is simple - Jesus claimed to be king. Pilate's actions demonstrate (a) that he indeed had Jesus crucified and (b) the "crime" for which Jesus was "guilty" - he claimed to be the King of the Jews. Whether Pilate thought about letting him go or wondered why he should crucify someone who appeared to pose little to no violent threat, as other would-be messiahs did, is beside the point of the actual result.

Are you implying in some way that the scriptures are less correct in their witness of Jesus Christ before Pilate?

Pilate actually had him crucified. Do you disagree with this? Whether he might have been willing or not to let Jesus go is beside the point given the actual result. Pilate had Jesus executed; he used his method, his soldiers and his tools to do it. Do you deny this obvious fact? I think you're imagining that Pilate just threw him to the wolves, gave up his soldiers, allowed them to use the Roman execution method, and was just innocent of and not really involved with anything.

And I rather be willfully ignorant of other writings outside of the scriptures then willfully ignorant of the word of God,

Ok, this isn't a one-or-the-other sort of situation though.

I am only interested in discussing the scriptures and have no interest in additional info on Pilate outside of what the scriptures have to say about him because its just not important to me.

Ok. I think that's a mistake, but Ok.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

Matthew 27.38-44 says 2 ... Mark 15.27-32 says 2 ... Luke 23.32-43 tells us 2 ...

There were two. The verses you mention prove that, and there is no confusion later on.

Yes, both thieves mocked him, but as they both grew closer to death, the one on the right realized who this Man was, probably because he had heard of him before his own arrest. He also saw how Christ approached His death, and that convinced Him that He is Messiah, the Christ.

 

[JimmieD]

Yes, both thieves mocked him, but as they both grew closer to death, the one on the right realized who this Man was, probably because he had heard of him before his own arrest. He also saw how Christ approached His death, and that convinced Him that He is Messiah, the Christ.

What if he actually knew him, not just knew of him? Maybe they actually knew each other?

They were under the same sentence. He knew Jesus by name. He seems to think Jesus knew him ("remember me").

Lk 23:40 But the other rebuked him, saying, "Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation?
Lk 23:42 Then[SUP] [/SUP]he said, “Jesus, remember me..

Maybe they were all arrested about the same time for the same reason?

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

He seems to think Jesus knew him ("remember me").

That's not a statement, it's a request. "Remember me" = "keep me in mind"

Maybe they were all arrested about the same time for the same reason?

Jesus was arrested mere hours before He was crucified. The prisoners hanging on their own crosses beside Him probably had been imprisoned for days if not weeks before their sentence was carried out.

Pilate holding a hearing and trial for Jesus just shortly after His arrest was a highly unusual practice in the Roman judiciary.

 

[JimmieD]

That's not a statement, it's a request. "Remember me" = "keep me in mind"

Hmm....I read it more as, "don't forget me" which might suggest they knew each other.

Jesus was arrested mere hours before He was crucified. The prisoners hanging on their own crosses beside Him probably had been imprisoned for days if not weeks before their sentence was carried out.

Based on what? Prisoners didn't sit around on death row. If Roman authorities found someone guilty, especially of a crime against the state, the sentence was pretty much immediate - as happened with Jesus.

Pilate holding a hearing and trial for Jesus just shortly after His arrest was a highly unusual practice in the Roman judiciary.

Based on what?

 

[atwhatcost]

well knowing the theorized location of the Garden of Eden (Mesopotamia) or modern day Iraq area, we can postulate that the Fruit might actually have been a pomegranate. At least that's how I've heard / seen it conveyed.

Noah and his family were on that boat for over a year. The Garden of Eden could have been in Cleveland for all we know. lol (And I pick on Cleveland only because I live in the other city that has a reputation for being nothing-in-particular. Philadelphia.) The geography drastically changed when the whole earth got wet. That fruit could have been a banana or a plum. Personally, I prefer peach, because a peach would tempt me more than an apple or pomegranate. (Give me a pomegranate minus the seeds, and I'm in. lol)

 

[atwhatcost]

This implies that there never was a global Flood, which there most certainly was. We don't know where the Garden of Eden was, so there's no point speculating. There was nothing left over from the pre-Flood world (save Noah, his family and fauna and flora etc.)

Oops. I'm still speculating on Cleveland. lol

 

[atwhatcost]

If you don't want to use available historical information to understand who Pilate was, and just how brutal and offensive he could be, then fine. I find your argument unconvincing though given the willful ignoring of information.

Whoa! Pretty gutsy argument since I know Josephus believed Moses just led a group of people out of Egypt to escape the plagues going on in the country. It wasn't like those people were any particular ethnic group, just people who had survived to that point and wanted to keep living. Small group at that.

Josephus got some stuff wrong. (I admire what he did. After all, he really did try to record all history without the aid of computers or even a typewriter, so he did an amazing job considering the circumstances. Still, he got stuff wrong.) Either that, or... the Bible did? I tend to lay it on Josephus. Which way do you go?

 

[Galahad]

There are many misconceived ideas about what actually took place in the bible.

For example, many believe that Adam and Eve ate an apple, when the bible doesn't say. Or that Jesus died on Friday and was raised on Sunday. How do you get three days and nights out of that. My wife figured that one out when she was just 6 years of age.
Would anybody else like to give some misconceptions that took place in the bible?

Matthew 2.11
From the mention of three types of gifts, some assume there were only 3 magi/wise men.
Could have been more than 3. Could have been 2.

 

[DesiredHaven]

Is this an excuse to ignore available information?

Im not obligated to other information such as secular sources

I agree with all these, if you dont thats fine,


Mat 27:11 And Jesus stood before the governor:

and the governor asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews?

And Jesus said unto him, Thou sayest.

Jesus said exactly this in Luke here as well, and Pilate said....

Luke 23:4 Then said Pilate to the chief priests and to the people, I find no fault in this man.

Mat 27:12 And when he was accused of the chief priests and elders,

he answered nothing.

Mat 27:13 Then said Pilate unto him,

Hearest thou not how many things they witness against thee?

Mat 27:14 And he answered him to never a word; insomuch that the governor marvelled greatly.

Now at that feast the governor was wont to release unto the people a prisoner,
whom they would. And they had then a notable prisoner, called Barabbas.

Mat 27:17 Therefore when they were gathered together,

Pilate said unto them,

Whom will ye that I release unto you?

Barabbas, or Jesus which is called Christ?

Mat 27:18 For he knew that for envy they had delivered him.

The chief priests and elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus.

Mat 27:21 The governor answered and said unto them,

Whether of the twain will ye that I release unto you?

They said, Barabbas.

Mat 27:22 Pilate saith unto them,

What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ?

They all say unto him, Let him be crucified.

Mat 27:23 And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done?

But they cried out the more, saying, Let him be crucified.

Mat 27:24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing,

but thatrather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude,

saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.

Mat 27:25 Then answered all the people, and said,

His blood be on us, and on our children.

Mat 27:26 Then released he Barabbas unto them:

and when he had scourged Jesus, he delivered him to be crucified.

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers,

hath glorified his Son Jesus;

whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate,

when he was determined to lethim go.

Acts 3:14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just,

and desired a murderer (Mark 15:7) to be granted unto you; (Mat 27:21)

Whether of the twain will ye that I release unto you?

They said, Barabbas.

They desired a murderer

Acts 3:15 And killed the Prince of life,

whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

Acts 4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus,

whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, andthe people of Israel, were gathered together,

Acts 4:28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

Acts 13:37 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers,

because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day,

they have fulfilledthem in condemning him.

Acts 13:28 And though they found no cause of death in him,

yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain.

Acts 13:29 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him,

theytook him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.

Acts 13:30 But God raised him from the dead:

Acts 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted?

and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One;

of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

Even in Luke, not so much in the above after being bounced to and back from Herod

Luke 23:13 And Pilate, when he had called together the chief priests and the rulers and the people,

Luke 23:14 Said unto them,

Ye have brought this man unto me, as one that perverteth the people:

and, behold, I, having examinedhim before you, have found no fault in this man touching those things whereof ye accuse him:

Luke 23:15 No, nor yet Herod: for I sent you to him; and, lo, nothing worthy of death is done unto him.

Luke 23:16 I will therefore chastise him, and release him.

(For of necessity he must release one unto them at the feast.)

Luke 23:18And they cried out all at once, saying,

Away with this man, and release unto us Barabbas:

Luke 23:19 (Who for a certain sedition made in the city, and for murder, was cast into prison.)

Luke 23:20Pilate therefore, willing to release Jesus, spake again to them.

Luke 23:21 But they cried, saying, Crucify him, crucify him.

Luke 23:22And he said unto them the third time,

Why, what evil hath he done?

I have found no cause of death in him:

I will therefore chastise him, and let himgo.

Luke 23:23 And they were instant with loud voices, requiring that he might be crucified.

And the voices of them and of the chief priests prevailed.

Luke 23:24 And Pilate gave sentence that it should be as they required.

In John it shows the jews and their law and the accusation of him making himself two things (the Son of God) here

John 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law,
and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.

Pilates reaction on this.

John 19:8 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he was the more afraid;

John 19:12 And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him:

Which is literally as being between a rock and stony places

but the Jews cried out, saying,

If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar's friend:

And the second accusation that he has made himself King as well here.

whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar.

It does not seem like Pilate has any concern whether Jesus calls himself a King or not (given his kingdom is not from hence) but ratherjust the way the jews lay it on thick with all of this letting Jesus go equals no friend of Caesar stuff.

John 18:28 Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover.

John 18:29 Pilate then went out unto them, and said, What accusation bring ye against this man?

John 18:30 They answered and said unto him, If he were not a malefactor, we would not have delivered him up unto thee.

John 18:31 Then said Pilate unto them, Take ye him, and judge him according to your law.

The Jews therefore said unto him, It is not lawful for us to put any man to death:

John 13:32 That the saying of Jesus might be fulfilled, which he spake, signifying what death he should die.

 

[Joshua_Generation]

Thanks to all who answered my questions regarding the number of thieves on the cross.

 

[JimmieD]

Josephus got some stuff wrong.

Of course. But did he get information about Pilate wrong? Do you have reason to believe he did? His picture of Pilate is corroborated by Philo as well.

 

[Utah]

I didn't read all the posts so not sure if I'm repeating what has already been shared:

Money is the root of all evil.

 

[Miri]

Na it's the love of money that is the root of all evil but I'm sure you know that and was just testing

1 Timothy 6:10 NKJV
[10] For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.


incidentally did you know there is a famous entertainer mentioned in the bible.
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Samson, how come you may ask?
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Well he brought the house down (sorry miri might have had too much sun Today).

 

[Bowhunter2394]

I didn't read all the posts so not sure if I'm repeating what has already been shared:

Money is the root of all evil.

the LOVE OF MONEY is the Root of all evil.. MONEY ITSELF is not evil.. the 'love' of it is.. Avarice, Covetousnes, Greed, etc.... God makes both the Rich and the Poor.. having Wealth is not 'evil'. there are some who would say that.. but this comes from 'idolatry' as those who teach that false teaching want to 'look better', esteeming themselves 'better than others'.. and there are those who use their 'wealth' as a merit to their 'godliness' 'supposing Gain is Godliness... from such Turn Away Paul commanded... nothing wrong with Having Wealth, you just have to REMEMBER THE source of your Abundance. and Paul taught that in 'both cases'.. in Want or need and in abundance.. one is to be content'... indeed!