True love is the mark of a real Believer.
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right... now, can I see a person sinning? or is that something only God can see?
do you see yourself as someone who has found it? can a person know if they've found it?
I think so... if you said you didn't sin for part of a second, that's one thing... if you said you didn't sin for 10 years, I think that would be really interesting!
yes, your life isn't the standard... but, if you have seen it work in your own life, then your life would be an example of it happening...
I see... any sin that's confessed or that a person is unaware of won't lead to death... so, in the time you say you weren't sinning... do you mean no sins of any kind, or no unconfessed sins, or no sins that you were aware of?
do you see yourself as someone who has found it? can a person know if they've found it?
I think so... if you said you didn't sin for part of a second, that's one thing... if you said you didn't sin for 10 years, I think that would be really interesting!
yes, your life isn't the standard... but, if you have seen it work in your own life, then your life would be an example of it happening...
I see... any sin that's confessed or that a person is unaware of won't lead to death... so, in the time you say you weren't sinning... do you mean no sins of any kind, or no unconfessed sins, or no sins that you were aware of?
Oh yes, you definitely see people sinning. No doubt about it. But there are many, many, many others you run into contact with that you cannot follow and track their whole lives like God can. If you go to a busy city like New York, you cannot possbly follow everyone. That's kind of the point. You do not have an eye on every person on the planet. For example: Nobody thought it was possible that a woman could safely have a child in their old age. Yet, one day it happened. Nobody thought that a person could run a mile in under four minutes. Then one day somebody did it. Then more people did it after that. The point is that experience is not always a true and tried testing method of determining truth. For who would ever would have thought that God would enter the flesh of a man and be the Living Truth and Savior for all of mankind by dying on a cross for our sins? Here is the thing. A person cannot stop sinning on their own power. A person cannot stop in putting away all the lusts they have for this world on their own power. Only when a person is born again spiritually and has the help of God can they do such things. For if a person struggles with money and in being rich. To him, it might seem impossible to ever put something like that away out of his life. But with God, all things are possible.
"And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible." (Matthew 19:24-26).
Also, think about what the disciples said here above. They were thinking in their minds that nobody could be saved because most people desired to be rich. Jesus' reply is that with men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible. Meaning, when God comes into a person's life and transforms their heart spiritually, they are changed spiritually and they want to please God in all they do. The Lord then enables them by the power of His Spirit to help them to resist the ways of this world and the pleasures it has to offer and serve only God.
Well, I wouldn't quote the verse, if I did not believe it. Narrow is the way that leads unto life and few be there that find it. Do you believe that verse or are you arguing against it? What is your view of that verse if you do not believe what it plainly says?
Your second question makes me think that you do not actually believe the verse in what it says. You are asking me if a person can know a truth in a particular Bible verse? The answer is a resounding yes because it is the Holy Spirit that guides us into all truth. The Spirit helps us to understand God's Word. For it is a spiritual book and it is taught spiritually by God.
It is not my life I want people to find interesting. It is only Jesus Christ I want to glorify and not myself. A lot of people like to do religious things in order to be seen by others today. I am not interested in that. I am always on my guard to doing things that please the Father in secret.
No.... buts. God's Word is the standard. Going beyond this point is to venture outside the faith. For faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God.
Yes, I told you I have experienced it for myself.
When I say that I had ceased from sin, I am talking about how I had physiclaly stopped in committing those types of sins that lead unto death. I believe the sins that lead unto death are the sins that Paul lists many times in the New Testament that will cause a person (who commits them) to not inherit the Kingdom of God (Like lying, lusting, hating, stealing, drunkenness, etc.).
I was not referring to sins that do not lead unto death like Psalm 19:12 talks about, which are hidden or secret faults or errors (Lesser sins that Paul and others do not list that would not cause spiritual death or in one being cast into the Lake of Fire; Like doing something you know you should be doing, but yet, you keep putting it off. For the Scriptures say, for he to knoweth to do good and he does it not, to him it is sin. How many times at work does a believer think they can do a certain good thing at their job as an example of being a proper Christian and yet they don't do it?).
"Ceasing from sin" as talked about in 1 Peter 4:1 is in context to willful sins that lead unto death.
"And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible." (Matthew 19:24-26).
Well, I wouldn't quote the verse, if I did not believe it. Narrow is the way that leads unto life and few be there that find it. Do you believe that verse or are you arguing against it? What is your view of that verse if you do not believe what it plainly says?
Your second question makes me think that you do not actually believe the verse in what it says. You are asking me if a person can know a truth in a particular Bible verse? The answer is a resounding yes because it is the Holy Spirit that guides us into all truth. The Spirit helps us to understand God's Word. For it is a spiritual book and it is taught spiritually by God.
It is not my life I want people to find interesting. It is only Jesus Christ I want to glorify and not myself. A lot of people like to do religious things in order to be seen by others today. I am not interested in that. I am always on my guard to doing things that please the Father in secret.
No.... buts. God's Word is the standard. Going beyond this point is to venture outside the faith. For faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God.
Yes, I told you I have experienced it for myself.
When I say that I had ceased from sin, I am talking about how I had physiclaly stopped in committing those types of sins that lead unto death. I believe the sins that lead unto death are the sins that Paul lists many times in the New Testament that will cause a person (who commits them) to not inherit the Kingdom of God (Like lying, lusting, hating, stealing, drunkenness, etc.).
I was not referring to sins that do not lead unto death like Psalm 19:12 talks about, which are hidden or secret faults or errors (Lesser sins that Paul and others do not list that would not cause spiritual death or in one being cast into the Lake of Fire; Like doing something you know you should be doing, but yet, you keep putting it off. For the Scriptures say, for he to knoweth to do good and he does it not, to him it is sin. How many times at work does a believer think they can do a certain good thing at their job as an example of being a proper Christian and yet they don't do it?).
"Ceasing from sin" as talked about in 1 Peter 4:1 is in context to willful sins that lead unto death.
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It's okay to feel good I think about things. As long as we have the mindset that the victory belongs to Jesus. That being said, I'm not sure that as long as my heart beats that it won't have a measure of human sinful pride attached to it. A lot of talk about which side of the equation to "err" on. As for me, I err on the side that I am not Jesus' equal in any way shape or form.
As I said, before, the thief on the cross was saved. However, those who have to live out their faith: Well, that is between God and the person; Only God can determine if they were honestly trying to stop sinning and were given many opportunities to do so and just did not care to do so. For Jesus said you cannot serve two masters. For you will hate the one and love the other. When a person sins, they are serving the devil. For the Scriptures say that "he that commits sin is of the devil." Only God knows the entire heart of a person and their intentions towards Him. Now, if a person thinks they will always be a slave to their sin (in this life).... then this a major problem because God cannot condone a person's thinking in doing evil. In other words, if an axe murderer says he cannot stop murdering people and he keeps chopping off people's heads and yet cries to God to forgive him every time he does it, do you honestly think he is going to be in Heaven? Now, God knows that the flesh is weak and the Spirit is willing. Jesus said those very words Himself. But God also knows that is not an excuse for us to think we are going to be slaves to sin. Jesus condemned the idea of a person being a slave to sin in John chapter 8 with the Pharisees. Jesus said.... all who sin are a slave to sin. Jesus did not say this favorably of the Pharisees. There are many things in God's Word that tells us to stop sinning and to repent. We are to sanctify ourselves by the Spirit, and by the washing of the water of God's Word. Paul says in Ephesians 2 and Colossians 3 that we used to be sinners as a part of our old way of life, but we are not that way anymore.
Side Note:
Yes, I am aware of the Tax Collector who struggled with sin and cried out to God to have mercy on him. God's grace is there for those who struggle with sin, and we as believers should never attack him (and think we are better --- because we are nothing by ourselves), but we should help them to overcome their sin and teach them that with God all things are possible and they will not forever be a slave to their sin. For Jesus Christ was manifested to destroy the works of the devil.
Side Note:
Yes, I am aware of the Tax Collector who struggled with sin and cried out to God to have mercy on him. God's grace is there for those who struggle with sin, and we as believers should never attack him (and think we are better --- because we are nothing by ourselves), but we should help them to overcome their sin and teach them that with God all things are possible and they will not forever be a slave to their sin. For Jesus Christ was manifested to destroy the works of the devil.
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As I pointed out in my previous post, I believe God does offer grace to those who do struggle with sin. But this is not where God wants them to be, though. God does not want them struggling with their sin their entire lives. God wants them to endure until the end with their faith. Their faith has to yield good fruit and they have to abide in God's Word. For example: You cannot willingly .... not forgive somebody, and not repent of it and expect to be saved or forgiven yourself. Jesus made it very clear that you have to forgive in order to be forgiven. This is an action on our part that we have to do in this life. An action that God works thru us if we yield to Him. If a person has the mindset that they do not need to obey His Word and they have no desire to follow Jesus, .... then they are in for a rude awakening because Jesus commissions all believers to preach the gospel. Jesus calls us all to love God and to love other people. It's not an option. For he that does not love, does not know God. Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments. So if one never even tries to keep his commandments in this life .... then they truly do not even love God. One who truly loves God will strive to do whatever it takes to stop in their sin and obey Jesus. If one holds back because they love their sin, or they love their family more, or they love this world more.... they are not going to make it. Yes, God's grace is there for people who honestly struggle with sin before they overcome it. But nowhere does God ever condone a believer in willfully disobeying Him. We are not our own, we are bought and paid for with a price. God will talk to a believer's heart that they should be following Him. If they keep running from that call and they keep sinning, then they going backwards and not fowards with God. They are running from Him and not to Him.
All this proves at the end of the day is that you believe and teach a works based salvation.....no matter how you slice and dice it you believe works keep you saved...my bible teaches that acknowledging Jesus and believing in his resurrection is what saves...not works......so...you can spin it how ever you want to spin it and at the end of the day you trust your works over the perfect faith and completed work of Christ.......period!
"Oh yes, you definitely see people sinning. No doubt about it. But there are many, many, many others you run into contact with that you cannot follow and track their whole lives like God can."
right, so the question is have you met someone who you know no longer sins... I guess the answer would have to be "no"...
"Well, I wouldn't quote the verse, if I did not believe it."
yes, but I'm not asking if you believe it, I'm asking if you consider yourself to be one who has found the narrow gate... and are the finders of that gate the ones who no longer sin?
"Narrow is the way that leads unto life and few be there that find it. Do you believe that verse or are you arguing against it? What is your view of that verse if you do not believe what it plainly says? "
I believe the verse and what it says, without adding to it or taking away from it (not to imply that someone is).
"You are asking me if a person can know a truth in a particular Bible verse?"
no, I'm basically asking if a person can know if the few who find the narrow gate applies to them...
"It is not my life I want people to find interesting. It is only Jesus Christ I want to glorify and not myself. A lot of people like to do religious things in order to be seen by others today. I am not interested in that. I am always on my guard to doing things that please the Father in secret."
right, though I thought you were presenting yourself as an example of a person who could stop sinning... so, if you don't want to do that, then I can't think of any example of a person I know that doesn't sin...
that leads me to think about possibly other bible interpretations...
"No.... buts. God's Word is the standard. Going beyond this point is to venture outside the faith. For faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God."
my question wasn't about standards or faith... I think most people of good reading ability would say that you gave yourself as an example of someone who could stop sinning... so I was asking about that...
"Yes, I told you I have experienced it for myself. "
good!... how long did it last for? what was the nature of the experience?
if you don't want to answer any questions about your experience that's fine... it's kind of a 'secret' example, then...
"When I say that I had ceased from sin, I am talking about how I had physiclaly stopped in committing those types of sins that lead unto death. I believe the sins that lead unto death are the sins that Paul lists many times in the New Testament that will cause a person (who commits them) to not inherit the Kingdom of God (Like lying, lusting, hating, stealing, drunkenness, etc.).
I was not referring to sins that do not lead unto death like Psalm 19:12 talks about, which are hidden or secret faults or errors (Lesser sins that Paul and others do not list that would not cause spiritual death or in one being cast into the Lake of Fire; Like doing something you know you should be doing, but yet, you keep putting it off. For the Scriptures say, for he to knoweth to do good and he does it not, to him it is sin. How many times at work does a believer think they can do a certain good thing at their job as an example of being a proper Christian and yet they don't do it?).
"Ceasing from sin" as talked about in 1 Peter 4:1 is in context to willful sins that lead unto death."
ahh, ok... so just the 'biggies' then... yes, I've seen many people go a while without major sins... physically...
now imo, the mental sins, thoughts, attitudes, are just as bad as the 'biggies'... I think that's what Jesus was getting at with the news about looking being the same as adultery-ing... my opinion...
right, so the question is have you met someone who you know no longer sins... I guess the answer would have to be "no"...
"Well, I wouldn't quote the verse, if I did not believe it."
yes, but I'm not asking if you believe it, I'm asking if you consider yourself to be one who has found the narrow gate... and are the finders of that gate the ones who no longer sin?
"Narrow is the way that leads unto life and few be there that find it. Do you believe that verse or are you arguing against it? What is your view of that verse if you do not believe what it plainly says? "
I believe the verse and what it says, without adding to it or taking away from it (not to imply that someone is).
"You are asking me if a person can know a truth in a particular Bible verse?"
no, I'm basically asking if a person can know if the few who find the narrow gate applies to them...
"It is not my life I want people to find interesting. It is only Jesus Christ I want to glorify and not myself. A lot of people like to do religious things in order to be seen by others today. I am not interested in that. I am always on my guard to doing things that please the Father in secret."
right, though I thought you were presenting yourself as an example of a person who could stop sinning... so, if you don't want to do that, then I can't think of any example of a person I know that doesn't sin...
that leads me to think about possibly other bible interpretations...
"No.... buts. God's Word is the standard. Going beyond this point is to venture outside the faith. For faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God."
my question wasn't about standards or faith... I think most people of good reading ability would say that you gave yourself as an example of someone who could stop sinning... so I was asking about that...
"Yes, I told you I have experienced it for myself. "
good!... how long did it last for? what was the nature of the experience?
if you don't want to answer any questions about your experience that's fine... it's kind of a 'secret' example, then...
"When I say that I had ceased from sin, I am talking about how I had physiclaly stopped in committing those types of sins that lead unto death. I believe the sins that lead unto death are the sins that Paul lists many times in the New Testament that will cause a person (who commits them) to not inherit the Kingdom of God (Like lying, lusting, hating, stealing, drunkenness, etc.).
I was not referring to sins that do not lead unto death like Psalm 19:12 talks about, which are hidden or secret faults or errors (Lesser sins that Paul and others do not list that would not cause spiritual death or in one being cast into the Lake of Fire; Like doing something you know you should be doing, but yet, you keep putting it off. For the Scriptures say, for he to knoweth to do good and he does it not, to him it is sin. How many times at work does a believer think they can do a certain good thing at their job as an example of being a proper Christian and yet they don't do it?).
"Ceasing from sin" as talked about in 1 Peter 4:1 is in context to willful sins that lead unto death."
ahh, ok... so just the 'biggies' then... yes, I've seen many people go a while without major sins... physically...
now imo, the mental sins, thoughts, attitudes, are just as bad as the 'biggies'... I think that's what Jesus was getting at with the news about looking being the same as adultery-ing... my opinion...
So...which is it.......! People who do not know the truth contradict themselves all the time......!