Christians vs Jews?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
so when Jesus spoke of love and many other things, thats all meaningless as we should go by what paul says here.

and what of the jailers household? this passage makes no mention of them believing yet they are saved. good passage but IMO there is much more to it that what you are seeing. and without seeing everything it has to offer i dont think it gives us the right to judge the world. i thin k we should put the teachings out there, if they accept great if not, to bad, we should move on and let our Lord be the judge of it. IMO
What part of God's word is not spoken in love? I know the rulers of this world have twisted it to sound unloving. But His rule is the Rule and His Rule is that outside of Christ you don't get an audience with Him. You can hate it, I can hate it, there's a whole sizeable part of the world that hates it. But how we feel has no bearing on the fact that the Rule is the rule.

I don't dislike Jews, I actually consider myself a Jew by adoption. I have nothing but empathy for those who's faith is sadly misplaced. I see the Jews pray on the plane and I think why can't the rest of us show such faith. But man, I don't care how faithful a marksman you are. If you're shooting in the wrong direction you're missing the mark.

The jailers household being included with the jailers faith may have been prophecy. It's oft true that as the head of a household goes, so goes the household. By the jailers faith being blessed there's a fair likelihood the rest of his household would have likewise believed. But that's just conjecture on my part, I don't think we actually know what happened within his household.

I love the Jewish people, my best man is one and I've loved my travels thru Israel. But you know, in the end it doesn't matter what you or I say. It comes down to what God says. And He says that without Christ, you don't get an audience with the King.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
How? (ten characters)
When you go to post a new thread, below the area where you edit your post there's an area marked additional options. At the bottom of that there's an option to post a poll. Click that then submit the post; what will come up is a page with the polling options. Fill that out and submit the poll!
 
B

bondservant

Guest
Please be careful what you say about the Jews, still are God's choosen people. The Jews and gentiles both worship in the temple in Jesus's day. Israel is our time clock. All christian faith is found in Jewish roots, remember we as gentiles are grafted into their roots by the mercy of God. In the end times the Jewish people will know Jesus and preach the gospel. Look at the 144 thousand in the book of revelation remnants of the Jewish tribes. That's 144 thousand of every tribe.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
Please be careful what you say about the Jews, still are God's choosen people. The Jews and gentiles both worship in the temple in Jesus's day. Israel is our time clock. All christian faith is found in Jewish roots, remember we as gentiles are grafted into their roots by the mercy of God. In the end times the Jewish people will know Jesus and preach the gospel. Look at the 144 thousand in the book of revelation remnants of the Jewish tribes. That's 144 thousand of every tribe.
they are the Lords chosen but none the less some people want to hate the Jewish people so bad they will stop at nothing to push that agenda. I dont get it.
 
B

bondservant

Guest
It's a curse God has chosen to allow for now.
 
B

bondservant

Guest
In the book of Daniel God gave them the exact day messiah would enter Jerusalem but they heeded it not.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
Wouldn't they have to accept Jesus as their Messiah, though? The only section that does and still debatable to be considered as Jews are the Messianics.
that's what I meant by 'through the blood of Jesus/Yeshua.
Messianic Jews are completed Jews in a sense. There's no debate in my book. Now there are many that go to Messianic Congregations that do the Messianic thing and wear the garb, do the observances etc., but most of them are Gentiles.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
Romans 2:28 .) For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 .) But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


Now as for the other comment:

QUOTE:

Thats not what Kayla or anyone else is saying. You should know better than this.

No one will get to heaven apart from Christ as Lord. A jew or gentile.

But the church did not replace Israel. God still has a plan for Israel. they will repent.

END QUOTATION.......

Millions of Jews have died since the death, burial and resurrection/ascent of Jesus to the Throne. And they died in denial of Him. As for Nation of Israel "repenting" and ALL being saved, even Paul himself INCLUDED a stipulation/condition for this to happen. And, IF he thought it necessary to do so, then it is NOT a GIVEN is it?

Romans 11:23 .) And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Pretty clear...................Paul himself (with the establishment of the New Covenant/Church) no longer considered those who denied Christ to be "true Jews," rather he shows in his writings that those who believe in and confess Christ are the true Jews, true chosen people of God.


Sigh, a deja vu. Romans 2:28-29 is simply comparing both natural Jews; but one is circumcised yet without faith, the other is circumcised yet with true faith. The latter is the true Jew.
In context he is addressing Jews, period.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
Without having faith in Him?
Well of course, but do I have to spell every thing out?

Rom_3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Rom_5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Eph_1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Col_1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
 
Mar 21, 2015
643
4
0
In the book of Daniel God gave them the exact day messiah would enter Jerusalem but they heeded it not.
May I have little more info on that "exact day" allegedly prophesied in Daniel please, Bondy ?
Chapter will do.

A particular day in relation to Passover, I can understand - but the actual year ?

You would be aware, I'm sure, that there are some who say that Yeshua arranged to enter on that day "in order that prophecy might be fulfilled" ?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
Have done so. You will ever reject the simplistic statement of the Apostle.......that is your choice.

And one can not discuss the 11th Chapter without first understanding why Paul is saying what he is saying. That also is "context." Look at Chapter 10.

Romans
10



1 .) Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 .) For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 .) For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 .) For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

From here one can read "in context" the rest of Chapter 10, and 11.

And to suggest that all the millions of people who have died in "unbelief" - in their sins - from that time until this.......will be "saved" is to make null and void the blood of Christ in my opinion. For it is to justify "all paths lead to heaven" and to deny that God is a "Just God." To say that of all who have died in unbelief/their sins .......... only those of Jewish blood will be "saved" and all others condemned is to also deny that God is a "Just God."

Paul clearly states that they must not "still abide in their unbelief." Those who have died, died in unbelief. To believe that they will STILL be granted eternal life by God is to justify all paths lead to heaven. For if unbelievers can receive eternal life, then there is no reason for believers to remain in the Faith. If those who live after the flesh can receive eternal life, why should any deny self and live for Him?

Paul speaks clearly again and again.

Galatians 3:23 .) But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 .) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 .) But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 .) For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 .) For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 .) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 .) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Chapter 4:4 .) But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 .) To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 .) And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7 .) Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.



Believe as you wish...........but there is much to be reconciled with the teachings of Paul under your assertion. I will accept the Words of Christ and the teachings of Paul.
For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh. They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises. To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen. But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel,
(Rom 9:3-6)

Notice the present tense?
In v.6 all he is going to say is that there is an election of natural Jews who are appointed to believe, these are the true Israel. NOWHERE in scripture is the Church called Israel.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
No, it does not. sorry, not buying your arguments, I am not a Jew, not am I spiritual Isreal. I am a child of God. the barrier (the law) was removed, and made us one, as paul said in Eph 2.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, [SUP]15 [/SUP]having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,

Nothing in their about making me or you or anyone else a jew. And James 1 was written to Jewish Christians, thus is was addressed to them. I hope you are not basing your belief on those three passages, for they are week arguments at best




How can we be Isreal. when we are hated for the sake of the gospel? When we are blinded in part? You make no sense.

Gal 3 is speaking of the schoolmaster. Which was taken out of the way making us one. What does that have to do with me being a spiritual Jew,, Why did you not adress Adam. Is Adam and Noah spiritual Jews or children of God?


Then you do not know anything about Abraham, He was also not founder of the elect. Unless you think no person alive was saved before him, Again where do you come up with your arguments?

You have your context of romans 9 in error. Try to find the historical relevence of romans 9, and you will begin to see the truth.





Yep. In other words, non of the other of his children had any part of the inheritance promised Abraham (not speaking of salvation of course, which is your problem, your making it a salvation covenant when it NEVER WAS)



it says they were blinded. Nice try.

Why write romans 11 if it is not concerning the nation of Isreal. Why have a remnant, if God is done with them?

Why make Isreal jealous by taking the oracles away from them, and giving it to gentiles, if God is done with them?





It does not say that, It speaks of Isreal. Not gentiles. Now your twisting the word of God.





I never said they were. But paul says at a time, they all will be saved,

Your argument is with Paul not me.




No actually you are not. Or you would learn the different covenants and what they mean, and not just listen to men


You can not claim to want to learn about the word of God. yet ignore all the different covenants God made with mankind and certain people, and why. Well unless your catholic. Which is where you are leaning in this area.




1. Paul spoke of future tense.
2. Paul spoke of a nation, who is blinded in part. and our enemy concerning th egospel. coming to Christ and being saved.

Sorry, Your wrong in this issue,





So them seeing themselves as restored makes it right? they saw themselves as right and Jesus wrong also. What they think does not matter, what actually happened does.

When did they have a king? when did they live in peace? when did the gentiles see through them the true God of heaven? You have to ignore so much OT prophesy, or spiritualise it away to say what your saying

Sorry, I take Gods word literally.




lol. You do not read much OT prophesy do you? You think the macabees was a restoration? that first century isreal (under roman rule) was a restoration.

wow dude,






Oh they did? so why are there so many blind? why are they still our enemy?

And jesus is ruling? his rod of iron must be prety week. His peace on earth is prety week. God must have no power.

if you think this is his kingdom. You have a low view of Jesus and his power.






taken from your words..



How else would I take it?

I remember, well




No again your in error Heb 11 states that they looked forword to what was eternal. the physical things did not matter as much,

Again, you need to study the OT more.



Yep. His rod of iron is prety weak. All the gentiles coming to Isreal to worship him is, (oh wait, jerusalem is still in gentile hands)

Oh well. Your fairy tale is weak and lacking.




so? wow!





dude, spiritual Isreal (those true isrealites who were saved) were still spiritual Isreal from the time God established their kingdon. David understood this, as did all the prophets. when will you?

You act as if they got saved in the OT different than we do today, You ignore the fact that the way to heaven never changed, The law did not change the way to heaven.




No. I am a child of God. not a child of Israel.

if you want to consider yourself one, and ignore Gods promises to nationa isreal. thats up to you.






Yep. but they did not call themselves jews. or isreal. whatever you want to think






your the one following an antisemetic doctrine drug up by the roman catholic church (concerning spiritual Israel) after they left the literal interpretation of the word. Not me my friend.

I know what it means, Because I actually stopped listening to men (concerning calvinsview), and started studying what it actually says



Excellent post! Replacement theology has been the means of the persecution of the Jews for centuries and with church backing. Its sad to see such an error is still believed today even though most churches have denied this theology,including the Catholic church itself.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
Muslims will do similarly. Are we then to see them as in relationship with God. When religion grips a person it can make them do amazing things.


Muslims are praying to a false god,Jews are not.God is still calling them and they will believe and be saved when they recognize their Messiah.
 
B

bondservant

Guest
The exact day is given in Daniel when the math is done of the 70th week. Will post the complete when I get the chance, nothing is by chance with God.