2Timothy 1:9

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W

weakness

Guest
#61
#61
crossnote said:
The verse says NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS, He has saved AND called us ACCORDING TO HIS PURPOSE AND GRACE.
Why do you introduce our works of any kind into that verse?[/QUOTe/ So God is forcing us into this grace? Do we have a choice not to respond? Can the prince of this world through the lust of the flesh blind our heartsto so great a gift? He did save all and call all into his eternal purpose, but do all chose to respond to his grace through hope faith and love? And if no, why not?Do not some choose to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season? I thank God for his amazing grace thatmade and thinks of me as his offspring. I don't know to what or where to go if not for God's unfathomable love and workings in my life. I have disobeyed God to much , but he has not thrown me away. If I turn back to him ,he is faithful and cannot deny himself. But look how many don't, for what ever reason, recieve this unmerited gift of eternal life. Many would get into predestination .at this point. Some thing I have thought about but is beyond me. I still beleive we have a choice in shared love. The scripture is full of vs. warning of falling away, being deceived, the last being worse than the first. lusting after evil things, and the consequenses of lust conceiving and brining forth sin, and when finished death eternal. Even in God's creation we see choice and consequenses to actions. We reap what we sow. And all things do work for good to them that love God I do love God and adore him for his perfect plan .I feel I can lean on Jesus, and nothing can separate me from his love, accept maybe me.
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#62
#62
weakness said:
So God is forcing us into this grace? Do we have a choice not to respond? Can the prince of this world through the lust of the flesh blind our heartsto so great a gift? He did save all and call all into his eternal purpose, but do all chose to respond to his grace through hope faith and love? And if no, why not?Do not some choose to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season? I thank God for his amazing grace thatmade and thinks of me as his offspring. I don't know to what or where to go if not for God's unfathomable love and workings in my life. I have disobeyed God to much , but he has not thrown me away. If I turn back to him ,he is faithful and cannot deny himself. But look how many don't, for what ever reason, recieve this unmerited gift of eternal life. Many would get into predestination .at this point. Some thing I have thought about but is beyond me. I still beleive we have a choice in shared love. The scripture is full of vs. warning of falling away, being deceived, the last being worse than the first. lusting after evil things, and the consequenses of lust conceiving and brining forth sin, and when finished death eternal. Even in God's creation we see choice and consequenses to actions. We reap what we sow. And all things do work for good to them that love God I do love God and adore him for his perfect plan .I feel I can lean on Jesus, and nothing can separate me from his love, accept maybe me.
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1. If you can separate yourself from God, You are more powerful than God
2. No God is not forcing you into his grace, any more than he is forcing anyone to work. People who have true faith work, it is their new nature,
 
W

weakness

Guest
#63
#63
​God ,through much long suffering ,bore with Pharo .Long suffering a fruit of God's Spiritand hopefuly of us.
 
W

weakness

Guest
#64
#64
​I liked what you were writing and was edified by the lord. Thank you
 
KohenMatt

KohenMatt

Senior Member
#65
Jun 28, 2013
4,022
223
63
#65
crossnote said:
Care to comment?...

..who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began, ESV (2Tim 1:9)

Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, KJV
(2Ti 1:9)

[For it is He] Who delivered and saved us and called us with a calling in itself holy and leading to holiness [to a life of consecration, a vocation of holiness]; [He did it] not because of anything of merit that we have done, but because of and to further His own purpose and grace (unmerited favor) which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began [eternal ages ago]. AMP (2Tim 1:9)
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In yet another effort to try and bring things back to 2 Timothy 1:9.....

I like how the salvation is in the same vain as having a calling placed on those who are saved. We can't be content to just be saved, but to recognize that is part of a calling God has for us. Once we are saved, we are to continue on in whatever purpose He has for us, which is unique for each individual yet common in it's purpose.
 
W

weakness

Guest
#66
#66
Scripture says Jesus learned obedience by the things he suffered. Paul said he is delivered unto death daily that the excellency of the power in us may be plainly seen is of God and not of us. Also those to whom you obey, those servants you are to whom you obey.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#67
Nov 24, 2012
30,712
3,651
113
#67
=weakness;2298161]
crossnote said:
The verse says NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS, He has saved AND called us ACCORDING TO HIS PURPOSE AND GRACE.
Click to expand...
Why do you introduce our works of any kind into that verse?
Click to expand...
So God is forcing us into this grace? Do we have a choice not to respond? Can the prince of this world through the lust of the flesh blind our heartsto so great a gift? He did save all and call all into his eternal purpose, but do all chose to respond to his grace through hope faith and love? And if no, why not?Do not some choose to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season? I thank God for his amazing grace thatmade and thinks of me as his offspring. I don't know to what or where to go if not for God's unfathomable love and workings in my life. I have disobeyed God to much , but he has not thrown me away. If I turn back to him ,he is faithful and cannot deny himself. But look how many don't, for what ever reason, recieve this unmerited gift of eternal life. Many would get into predestination .at this point. Some thing I have thought about but is beyond me. I still beleive we have a choice in shared love. The scripture is full of vs. warning of falling away, being deceived, the last being worse than the first. lusting after evil things, and the consequenses of lust conceiving and brining forth sin, and when finished death eternal. Even in God's creation we see choice and consequenses to actions. We reap what we sow. And all things do work for good to them that love God I do love God and adore him for his perfect plan .I feel I can lean on Jesus, and nothing can separate me from his love, accept maybe me.
Click to expand...
Did I say God was forcing us into this grace? Or is that your conclusion from 2Tim 1:9?
 
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W

weakness

Guest
#68
#68
valiant said:
What you fail to see is that James was talking about being seen as justified BY THE EYES OF MEN. He was not talking about being justified before God. God does not need to see works to know whether faith is genuine or not.[/QUOTE/Works of God done in us through the Holy SpiritAre not only proof , but are the nature of God himself. Isn't that whats happening Christ being formed in us.God is Love ,he that dwells in God ,dwells in love. How can we not love and be dwelling in God.Works of the Spirit are demonstrating God in us to the world.
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crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#69
Nov 24, 2012
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#69
KohenMatt said:
In yet another effort to try and bring things back to 2 Timothy 1:9.....

I like how the salvation is in the same vain as having a calling placed on those who are saved. We can't be content to just be saved, but to recognize that is part of a calling God has for us. Once we are saved, we are to continue on in whatever purpose He has for us, which is unique for each individual yet common in it's purpose.
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His 'own purpose and grace' was established before the world/ages began, do you think it has ceased in time or continues?
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#70
Nov 24, 2012
30,712
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#70
weakness said:
Scripture says Jesus learned obedience by the things he suffered. Paul said he is delivered unto death daily that the excellency of the power in us may be plainly seen is of God and not of us. Also those to whom you obey, those servants you are to whom you obey.
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Please reread 2Tim 1:9 and try to stick to it and not your own agenda.
 
KohenMatt

KohenMatt

Senior Member
#71
Jun 28, 2013
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223
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#71
weakness said:
Many would get into predestination .at this point. Some thing I have thought about but is beyond me. I still beleive we have a choice in shared love.
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As an aside, I too have tried to stay away from the whole predestination/election debate because it is beyond me. It seems like a minor issue in many ways because from my limited perspective as a finite being trying to be in a relationship with an infinite God, it really seems to be my choice. Whether God knew my choice in advanced, or caused me to make my choice, as best as I can see, I have a response to make. Fortunately for me (and the rest of humanity), per 2 Tim 1:9, God's salvation is based on me, but on His calling for all of eternity.
 
KohenMatt

KohenMatt

Senior Member
#72
Jun 28, 2013
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223
63
#72
crossnote said:
His 'own purpose and grace' was established before the world/ages began, do you think it has ceased in time or continues?
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If I'm understanding your question, His grace and purpose for His creation continues forever (or until whatever may happen in the end times.)
 
W

weakness

Guest
#73
#73
crossnote said:
Please reread 2Tim 1:9 and try to stick to it and not your own agenda.
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​I am trying to relate God's Grace with or obedience to his grace as part of the equation. I am not trying to derail anything. I said I liked what you were saying and was edified.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#74
Nov 24, 2012
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#74
KohenMatt said:
As an aside, I too have tried to stay away from the whole predestination/election debate because it is beyond me. It seems like a minor issue in many ways because from my limited perspective as a finite being trying to be in a relationship with an infinite God, it really seems to be my choice. Whether God knew my choice in advanced, or caused me to make my choice, as best as I can see, I have a response to make. Fortunately for me (and the rest of humanity), per 2 Tim 1:9, God's salvation is NOT based on me, but on His calling for all of eternity.
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correction made.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#75
Nov 24, 2012
30,712
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#75
weakness said:
​I am trying to relate God's Grace with or obedience to his grace as part of the equation. I am not trying to derail anything. I said I liked what you were saying and was edified.
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I just don't see the obedience factor in that verse. Pretend you are on an oasis called Grace...at least for the moment :)
 
RickyZ

RickyZ

Senior Member
#76
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#76
crossnote said:
We know that, but since works is not a subject of the text, I'm trying to steer clear of the grace/works debate and concentrate on just what the text is saying. (I know that's quite a feat here on CC :p )
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2 Timothy 1:9King James Version (KJV)[SUP]9 [/SUP]Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

But you really can't separate the verse from the debate, because others will counter this single verse with ones that (according to them) says just the opposite (as some have already done in this thread). It's like debating the purpose of the gifts without debating Cessationism vs continuism. How you look at whether they ceased affects greatly how you look at their purpose. I understand not wanting to forment yet another OSAS thread but unfortunately they are linked. How you look at the debate influences how you interpret the scripture... and vice versa.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#77
Nov 24, 2012
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#77
RickyZ said:
2 Timothy 1:9King James Version (KJV)[SUP]9 [/SUP]Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

But you really can't separate the verse from the debate, because others will counter this single verse with ones that (according to them) says just the opposite (as some have already done in this thread). It's like debating the purpose of the gifts without debating Cessationism vs continuism. How you look at whether they ceased affects greatly how you look at their purpose. I understand not wanting to forment yet another OSAS thread but unfortunately they are linked. How you look at the debate influences how you interpret the scripture... and vice versa.
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There is no need to interject a debate. Some people are capable of doing a devotional or a word study or simply exegete a text without introducing a debate...and some here have.
The debate comes when our little egos want to be heard even when the wishes of the OP was to stick with the text.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#78
#78
RickyZ said:
2 Timothy 1:9King James Version (KJV)[SUP]9 [/SUP]Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

But you really can't separate the verse from the debate, because others will counter this single verse with ones that (according to them) says just the opposite (as some have already done in this thread). It's like debating the purpose of the gifts without debating Cessationism vs continuism. How you look at whether they ceased affects greatly how you look at their purpose. I understand not wanting to forment yet another OSAS thread but unfortunately they are linked. How you look at the debate influences how you interpret the scripture... and vice versa.
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crossnote said:
There is no need to interject a debate. Some people are capable of doing a devotional or a word study or simply exegete a text without introducing a debate...and some here have.
The debate comes when our little egos want to be heard even when the wishes of the OP was to stick with the text.
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I wrote this in agreement with Crossnote here. Saying that noo one interprets a verse in a personal devotional study with works or not works in mind, they just look at the verse and sees how it relates to them, and interpret it in context.

But then I started to think, If one does that with this verse. They either have to interpret it as it is, which would prove them wrong, or add works to the debate.

So sadly I think your both right:(
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#79
Nov 24, 2012
30,712
3,651
113
#79
eternally-gratefull said:

I wrote this in agreement with Crossnote here. Saying that noo one interprets a verse in a personal devotional study with works or not works in mind, they just look at the verse and sees how it relates to them, and interpret it in context.

But then I started to think, If one does that with this verse. They either have to interpret it as it is, which would prove them wrong, or add works to the debate.

So sadly I think your both right:(
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EG, I don't know, posts #'s ..4,5,22,27,32 all did it without interjecting works and nothing was proven wrong. It's only when the challenges come concerning grace by the legalists are others compelled to draw their swords in defense of their positions. I was hoping to avoid that but...this is CC, what was I thinking LOL.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#80
#80
crossnote said:
EG, I don't know, posts #'s ..4,5,22,27,32 all did it without interjecting works and nothing was proven wrong. It's only when the challenges come concerning grace by the legalists are others compelled to draw their swords in defense of their positions. I was hoping to avoid that but...this is CC, what was I thinking LOL.
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maybe we should just ignore the legalists in the thread, and just continue, We plant the seed, let God water it, WHo knows what will happen? It was a great thread up till that point, Like I said, we who have faith always need the reminder. whether they want to agree or not is not on us
 
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