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No, because Jesus specifically told Peter how he was going to die. I suppose that when Jesus made known that Paul was about to die in Rome, that at that moment he knew that he was not going to be apart of those living who would be changed and caught up as he did when he wrote 1 Thes.4:13-18. If your told how your going to die, then that is going to of course supersede the previous promise. That said, since all believer's have a promise from the Lord to watch for his appearing, we should be watching. For those (if there are any) of whom the Lord has specifically told when and how they are going to die, then that would supersede the promise as well. Just because Peter was told how he was going to die, does not negate the Lord's command for believer's to watch for his appearing.
Hi guys! The word of God has the answer to this:
"Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth—to every nation, tribe, language and people. He said in a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water.”
A second angel followed and said, “ ‘Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great,’[SUP]a[/SUP] which made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries.”
"A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus."
Each of the angels above will be proclaiming their message to every nation, tribe, language and people, i.e. the entire earth.
"Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth—to every nation, tribe, language and people. He said in a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water.”
A second angel followed and said, “ ‘Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great,’[SUP]a[/SUP] which made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries.”
"A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus."
Each of the angels above will be proclaiming their message to every nation, tribe, language and people, i.e. the entire earth.
B
I know My Lord is coming back and there will be a resurrection of those who will reign with Him, and those are alive when this happens and are His will join them. There is too much emphasis on this pre, post or non trib stuff. I know there will be a time of tribulation for the church which will include a great falling away, and an even greater one for the world.
I am also aware that it does not matter what the future holds as long as we remain faithful and in His grace.
So I am also a 7 to 8 with a leaning toward grace777x70.
I am also aware that it does not matter what the future holds as long as we remain faithful and in His grace.
So I am also a 7 to 8 with a leaning toward grace777x70.
It's really painful to see so many people fall for this pre-tribulation non-Biblical return of Christ fairy tale because Christ in all of His teachings never taught it. Even in the Olivet when asked specifically by His disciples for signs leading up to His return (Second Coming) Christ still never mentions or teaches of an early pre-Tribulation (of Israel) return.
These Pre-Tribbers all rely on a passage from Paul (1 Thes 4) which provides no timing and for some reason they leap to the conclusion that it has to be a different return than the one Christ discusses. They jump to this conclusion even though Paul clarifies in 2 Thes 2 that this day (Christ returns) will NOT happen until the Man of Sin is revealed. Paul tells us to not be deceived for any reason about this yet pre-tribbers ignore this admonition and continue to reverse the correct order of appearances that Paul provides (Man of Sin, then Christ).
It really comes down to several mistakes pre-tribbers make.
1) They don't recognize that the Great Tribulation is the all out attack on, and near destruction of, Israel by the Islamic forces to her north.
2) They confuse the Great Tribulation with the Wrath of God when the Word is clear that the Wrath of God comes in response to the Great Tribulation and is specifically aimed at those who attacked Israel.
3) They think that since we are not appointed to the Wrath of God and that the Wrath is global that we must be taken off the planet to avoid it. They fail to see two separate passages where we are told to simply leave the region where the wrath is to be poured which is the kingdom of the Islamic Beast of the North.
This pre-Trib notion which dominates the thinking of so many in the west, especially fundamentalists, is really a case of complete lack of understanding of the above key points. They also literalize much of Revelation missing all the OT symbolism at play which John used to protect himself and his audience.
These Pre-Tribbers all rely on a passage from Paul (1 Thes 4) which provides no timing and for some reason they leap to the conclusion that it has to be a different return than the one Christ discusses. They jump to this conclusion even though Paul clarifies in 2 Thes 2 that this day (Christ returns) will NOT happen until the Man of Sin is revealed. Paul tells us to not be deceived for any reason about this yet pre-tribbers ignore this admonition and continue to reverse the correct order of appearances that Paul provides (Man of Sin, then Christ).
It really comes down to several mistakes pre-tribbers make.
1) They don't recognize that the Great Tribulation is the all out attack on, and near destruction of, Israel by the Islamic forces to her north.
2) They confuse the Great Tribulation with the Wrath of God when the Word is clear that the Wrath of God comes in response to the Great Tribulation and is specifically aimed at those who attacked Israel.
3) They think that since we are not appointed to the Wrath of God and that the Wrath is global that we must be taken off the planet to avoid it. They fail to see two separate passages where we are told to simply leave the region where the wrath is to be poured which is the kingdom of the Islamic Beast of the North.
This pre-Trib notion which dominates the thinking of so many in the west, especially fundamentalists, is really a case of complete lack of understanding of the above key points. They also literalize much of Revelation missing all the OT symbolism at play which John used to protect himself and his audience.
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Take a look at the below. This is from Bible Gateway NKJV which is found on-line at the below link.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+13&version=NKJV#en-NKJV-30923
Pay close attention to Footnote "e."
Does everyone see that? It isn't the entire planet that is deceived, it's his (Beast of the Earth, AKA Man of Sin, AKA Son of Perdition) own people that are deceived. In other words, the text really reads like this:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And he deceives his own people who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast...
"His People" are Muslims. They are the ones who behead those who will not convert to Islam. They are the ones who live to the north and around Israel. They are the ones who follow a false god of hatred and murder (Allah) and his prophet (Muhammad). They are the ones who attack Israel in the final days. They are the ones who hate the Woman of Rev 12 (Israel) and when she is taken to safety they wage war on the Christians nations who are her offspring and who keep the commandments of Jesus Christ as they are doing now.
Muslims are the descendants of the original Babylonians. They live in the same place. The worship the same way by bowing down when they hear their music. They worship the moon and an image fallen from the sky (Kaaba Stone). They are ruthless suicide killers thinking they go to Paradise when they kill innocent people but instead Death (spiritual) and Hades follows them when they die for Allah.
They are the ones who look just like the "wheat" (Jews) and grow beside them (Mat 13) as they are the "tares." They are the ones taken to the Body which is slain. They are the ones spoken of here:
“If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, [SUP]10 [/SUP]he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
They are the ones who have been a thorn in the side of Israel for 4,000 years. They are the deceived. They are the Children of Hagar and Ishmael (Gal 4) that are to be cast out. They are the Children of the Bondwoman who will not be heirs to the Kingdom.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.”
This goes all the way back to Abraham, their father.
Gen 21:[SUP] 9 [/SUP]And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, whom she had borne to Abraham, scoffing. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Therefore she said to Abraham, “Cast out this bondwoman and her son; for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, namely with Isaac.” [SUP]11 [/SUP]And the matter was very displeasing in Abraham’s sight because of his son.
The Beast of the Sea is the Islamic State to the North of Israel which is an image (copy) of the original head (Ottoman Empire) which was mortally wounded and now lives. They are making the image now. They will NOT be HEIRS with ISAAC (Israel). This isn't my theory. It's BIBLICAL FACT!!
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+13&version=NKJV#en-NKJV-30923
Pay close attention to Footnote "e."
Does everyone see that? It isn't the entire planet that is deceived, it's his (Beast of the Earth, AKA Man of Sin, AKA Son of Perdition) own people that are deceived. In other words, the text really reads like this:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And he deceives his own people who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast...
"His People" are Muslims. They are the ones who behead those who will not convert to Islam. They are the ones who live to the north and around Israel. They are the ones who follow a false god of hatred and murder (Allah) and his prophet (Muhammad). They are the ones who attack Israel in the final days. They are the ones who hate the Woman of Rev 12 (Israel) and when she is taken to safety they wage war on the Christians nations who are her offspring and who keep the commandments of Jesus Christ as they are doing now.
Muslims are the descendants of the original Babylonians. They live in the same place. The worship the same way by bowing down when they hear their music. They worship the moon and an image fallen from the sky (Kaaba Stone). They are ruthless suicide killers thinking they go to Paradise when they kill innocent people but instead Death (spiritual) and Hades follows them when they die for Allah.
They are the ones who look just like the "wheat" (Jews) and grow beside them (Mat 13) as they are the "tares." They are the ones taken to the Body which is slain. They are the ones spoken of here:
“If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, [SUP]10 [/SUP]he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
They are the ones who have been a thorn in the side of Israel for 4,000 years. They are the deceived. They are the Children of Hagar and Ishmael (Gal 4) that are to be cast out. They are the Children of the Bondwoman who will not be heirs to the Kingdom.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.”
This goes all the way back to Abraham, their father.
Gen 21:[SUP] 9 [/SUP]And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, whom she had borne to Abraham, scoffing. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Therefore she said to Abraham, “Cast out this bondwoman and her son; for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, namely with Isaac.” [SUP]11 [/SUP]And the matter was very displeasing in Abraham’s sight because of his son.
The Beast of the Sea is the Islamic State to the North of Israel which is an image (copy) of the original head (Ottoman Empire) which was mortally wounded and now lives. They are making the image now. They will NOT be HEIRS with ISAAC (Israel). This isn't my theory. It's BIBLICAL FACT!!
This is all discussing one return, one event.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. [SUP]15 [/SUP]For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. [SUP]4 [/SUP]But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. [SUP]5 [/SUP]You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, [SUP]7 [/SUP]and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, [SUP]8 [/SUP]in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. [SUP]9 [/SUP]These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, [SUP]10 [/SUP]when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, [SUP]2 [/SUP]not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, [SUP]4 [/SUP]who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
THE MAN OF SIN IS TO BE REVEALED FIRST. DO NOT BE DECEIVED ABOUT THIS!! OUR GATHERING TO CHRIST HAPPENS AFTER THE MAN OF SIN!!
The Day of the Lord comes as a thief as Christ acknowledges in Rev 16:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.” [SUP]16 [/SUP]And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.
Christ comes as a thief to those who are in the dark. But we are sons of the day. We know the Man of Sin, Son of Perdition comes first so that when he is revealed, we will know that he is NOT our Lord and Savior. Therefore we will not be deceived by him. Those who think Christ comes first will not recognize the Man of Sin because they don't expect to be here to see the Man of Sin.
What a dangerous false doctrine, this pre-trib Rapture notion as it reverses the correct order of appearances given by Paul.
Paul teaches:
1. Man of Sin
2. Christ
Pre-tribbers teach:
1. Christ
2. Man of Sin
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless...the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition..
Heed Paul's warning people. Don't be among the deceived. The pre-trib rapture theory is an "ANY MEANS" by which you are being deceived.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. [SUP]15 [/SUP]For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. [SUP]4 [/SUP]But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. [SUP]5 [/SUP]You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, [SUP]7 [/SUP]and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, [SUP]8 [/SUP]in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. [SUP]9 [/SUP]These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, [SUP]10 [/SUP]when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, [SUP]2 [/SUP]not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, [SUP]4 [/SUP]who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
THE MAN OF SIN IS TO BE REVEALED FIRST. DO NOT BE DECEIVED ABOUT THIS!! OUR GATHERING TO CHRIST HAPPENS AFTER THE MAN OF SIN!!
The Day of the Lord comes as a thief as Christ acknowledges in Rev 16:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.” [SUP]16 [/SUP]And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.
Christ comes as a thief to those who are in the dark. But we are sons of the day. We know the Man of Sin, Son of Perdition comes first so that when he is revealed, we will know that he is NOT our Lord and Savior. Therefore we will not be deceived by him. Those who think Christ comes first will not recognize the Man of Sin because they don't expect to be here to see the Man of Sin.
What a dangerous false doctrine, this pre-trib Rapture notion as it reverses the correct order of appearances given by Paul.
Paul teaches:
1. Man of Sin
2. Christ
Pre-tribbers teach:
1. Christ
2. Man of Sin
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless...the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition..
Heed Paul's warning people. Don't be among the deceived. The pre-trib rapture theory is an "ANY MEANS" by which you are being deceived.
Did you forget that "in the days of Peleg, the Earth was divided" (Gen 10:25)??? This was about 100-130 years after The Flood, and after the Tower of Babel. So when "earth" is used, be careful to not necessarily apply it to the whole planet. I showed you two passages from Daniel where he uses "whole earth" once to describe the conquests of Rome and the other Greece (7:23 and 8:5). In both cases Daniel was not discussing the entire planet as history is our witness.
What point are you trying to make with this verse?
Rev 14:6: [SUP]6 [/SUP]Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people—
We know the Gospel is preached to all nations. That's what the Great Commission was all about. What does the next verse say?
[SUP]7 [/SUP]saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”
Judgment is coming or has come, right? To whom or where was the judgment directed? Babylon perhaps???
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And another angel followed, saying, “Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.”
The wrath will be directed at Babylon (ISLAM). The Gospel is preached to all nations but the wrath is NOT directed at all nations, only some nations. Remember, Jesus separates the Sheep from the Goat nations?
The Great False religion, Islam, is the angry religion. How are we to judge? By their fruits, correct?
Matthew 7:16
You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
Babylon (ISLAM) has subjected all the nations to the WRATH of her False religion (False god Allah) worship. Is there any doubt that only Islam fits this bill? Islam is truly global as it can be found in every nation, tribe, tongue and people. When the judgment comes against Islam, it indeed hits Islam everywhere. Islam is the "Destroying Mountain" mentioned here by Jeremiah. Can you pick up all the symbolism in play?
Jeremiah 51:25
“Behold, I am against you, O destroying mountain, Who destroys all the earth,” says the Lord. “And I will stretch out My hand against you, Roll you down from the rocks, And make you a burnt mountain.
Sure sounds related to the 2nd trumpet doesn't it?
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Then the second angel sounded: And something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood.
This Great Destructive Mountain burning with Fire is ISLAM thrown into the restless society. God rids the world of Islam at the end when He returns with the brightness of His coming.
Who are hiding in the rocks?
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, [SUP]16 [/SUP]and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! [SUP]17 [/SUP]For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”
Are there caves, mountains and rocks everywhere on the planet for all of these people to hide in? Are caves, rocks and mountains available in every part of the planet? Are there caves, rocks and mountains in New York City sufficient for 8 million people to hide? How about in LA? How about in Kansas? Do you see a lot of mountains in the Great Plains? You probably take the above people mentioned (kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man) and apply it to the whole planet of people, right?
It also says in part, "every slave and every free man..." will hide in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains. Slaves? Who has slaves anymore? Muslim nations have slaves, especially the Saudis. In fact Saudi Arabia is #1 in the world in slavery with an estimate of over 1 million slaves. Saudi Arabia has mountains, caves and rocks too and guess what? They also have Mecca, the spiritual capitol of Islam.
What point are you trying to make with this verse?
Rev 14:6: [SUP]6 [/SUP]Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people—
We know the Gospel is preached to all nations. That's what the Great Commission was all about. What does the next verse say?
[SUP]7 [/SUP]saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”
Judgment is coming or has come, right? To whom or where was the judgment directed? Babylon perhaps???
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And another angel followed, saying, “Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.”
The wrath will be directed at Babylon (ISLAM). The Gospel is preached to all nations but the wrath is NOT directed at all nations, only some nations. Remember, Jesus separates the Sheep from the Goat nations?
The Great False religion, Islam, is the angry religion. How are we to judge? By their fruits, correct?
Matthew 7:16
You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
Babylon (ISLAM) has subjected all the nations to the WRATH of her False religion (False god Allah) worship. Is there any doubt that only Islam fits this bill? Islam is truly global as it can be found in every nation, tribe, tongue and people. When the judgment comes against Islam, it indeed hits Islam everywhere. Islam is the "Destroying Mountain" mentioned here by Jeremiah. Can you pick up all the symbolism in play?
Jeremiah 51:25
“Behold, I am against you, O destroying mountain, Who destroys all the earth,” says the Lord. “And I will stretch out My hand against you, Roll you down from the rocks, And make you a burnt mountain.
Sure sounds related to the 2nd trumpet doesn't it?
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Then the second angel sounded: And something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood.
This Great Destructive Mountain burning with Fire is ISLAM thrown into the restless society. God rids the world of Islam at the end when He returns with the brightness of His coming.
Who are hiding in the rocks?
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, [SUP]16 [/SUP]and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! [SUP]17 [/SUP]For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”
Are there caves, mountains and rocks everywhere on the planet for all of these people to hide in? Are caves, rocks and mountains available in every part of the planet? Are there caves, rocks and mountains in New York City sufficient for 8 million people to hide? How about in LA? How about in Kansas? Do you see a lot of mountains in the Great Plains? You probably take the above people mentioned (kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man) and apply it to the whole planet of people, right?
It also says in part, "every slave and every free man..." will hide in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains. Slaves? Who has slaves anymore? Muslim nations have slaves, especially the Saudis. In fact Saudi Arabia is #1 in the world in slavery with an estimate of over 1 million slaves. Saudi Arabia has mountains, caves and rocks too and guess what? They also have Mecca, the spiritual capitol of Islam.
P
Neither do I think you make a good case for Babylon.
It says the earth was made rich with her products.
And the nations drank of her fornication.
You have an insurmountable dilemma right there.
Some of your deal fits,but it is more indirect than major.
That is where you bog down,in playing your deal out. Much of it is a huge leap,and folks must leap with you.
It says the earth was made rich with her products.
And the nations drank of her fornication.
You have an insurmountable dilemma right there.
Some of your deal fits,but it is more indirect than major.
That is where you bog down,in playing your deal out. Much of it is a huge leap,and folks must leap with you.
You keep wanting to use "earth" and "world" interchangeably and have them both mean "planet." These words are not always the same and they can have different meanings. You have to look at the Greek. The English words "world" and "earth" are different words and have distinct, separate conceptual meanings in the Holy Bible and the English language. These meanings are defined by the Scriptures when used in context. Understanding this distinction is CRUCIAL to rightly dividing the word of truth.
The Greek word for "worlds" is αιων (as in eon), which means an age or a perpetuity of specific prevailing conditions in time upon the face of the Earth. Therefore, the word "world," as doctrinally defined in our Bible, is NOT referring to other planets in outer space but to defined ages and prevailing conditions during those ages on the Earth, be they past, present, or future.
The "Earth" is a planet, true. It is a spherical-shaped mass of matter in time and space. The "world" is the specific set of conditions prevailing upon the face of the planet Earth at a specific point in Biblical time. The Earth is a part of our present world, past worlds, and the future world to come (see Matt 12:32, Mark 10:30, Hebrews 2:5), but the Earth itself is not the whole "world." Our present "world" also consists of the stars in the sky, the trees of the field, the people, the cities of the nations and the present evil world system on the face of the Earth:
The earth can also be a part of the planet as we see from the below. John used the word, "earth" 73 times in Revelation. In each case he used the word, 1093 "Ghay".
EARTH 1093 Ghay, contr. from a primary word; soil; by extension a region, or the solid part or the whole of the terrene globe (incl. the occupants in each application); - country, earth (-ly) ground, land, world.
The solid part is the uninterrupted (by waters) land mass. It can also be a country within known boundaries.
John used the word, "world" just 8 times in Revelation. In the 8 times there are really 3 different Greek words used. This is in the case of regular Greek writing.
2889 kosmos - orderly arrangement., i.e. decoration; by impl the world (in a wide or narrow sense, incl. its inhab., lit or fig) - adorning, world.
3625 oikoumene - land, i.e. the (terrene part of the) globe; specifically the Roman Empire: earth - world.
1093 Ghay same as earth above.
So you can see that "earth" can be limited to the occupants in a specific country or kingdom as can "world" in a broader sense. It doesn't matter how we use the words, it's how they were used by Jews speaking Greek.
Then you have the "earth" used in Biblical symbolism. In this case "earth" refers to society and people of a certain area or population. An example of Isaiah (which we know John uses his symbols) speaks to the earth here:
Isa 1:2: [SUP]2 [/SUP]Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth! For the Lord has spoken: “I have nourished and brought up children,
And they have rebelled against Me.
Obviously the planet EARTH did not rebel against God, the people did and a specific people, in this case Judah.
The big take away Popeye is that we cannot always read things in the Bible in our English transliteration and assume they always mean to the same thing to us as they did to them in their day, language and era. The Bible isn't translated, it's transliterated. The original text was divinely inspired but the many transliterations were not. I previously showed you two examples of Daniel referring to the "whole earth" and history shows it wasn't the entire planet. So if it works for Daniel, it works for John.
The Greek word for "worlds" is αιων (as in eon), which means an age or a perpetuity of specific prevailing conditions in time upon the face of the Earth. Therefore, the word "world," as doctrinally defined in our Bible, is NOT referring to other planets in outer space but to defined ages and prevailing conditions during those ages on the Earth, be they past, present, or future.
The "Earth" is a planet, true. It is a spherical-shaped mass of matter in time and space. The "world" is the specific set of conditions prevailing upon the face of the planet Earth at a specific point in Biblical time. The Earth is a part of our present world, past worlds, and the future world to come (see Matt 12:32, Mark 10:30, Hebrews 2:5), but the Earth itself is not the whole "world." Our present "world" also consists of the stars in the sky, the trees of the field, the people, the cities of the nations and the present evil world system on the face of the Earth:
The earth can also be a part of the planet as we see from the below. John used the word, "earth" 73 times in Revelation. In each case he used the word, 1093 "Ghay".
EARTH 1093 Ghay, contr. from a primary word; soil; by extension a region, or the solid part or the whole of the terrene globe (incl. the occupants in each application); - country, earth (-ly) ground, land, world.
The solid part is the uninterrupted (by waters) land mass. It can also be a country within known boundaries.
John used the word, "world" just 8 times in Revelation. In the 8 times there are really 3 different Greek words used. This is in the case of regular Greek writing.
2889 kosmos - orderly arrangement., i.e. decoration; by impl the world (in a wide or narrow sense, incl. its inhab., lit or fig) - adorning, world.
3625 oikoumene - land, i.e. the (terrene part of the) globe; specifically the Roman Empire: earth - world.
1093 Ghay same as earth above.
So you can see that "earth" can be limited to the occupants in a specific country or kingdom as can "world" in a broader sense. It doesn't matter how we use the words, it's how they were used by Jews speaking Greek.
Then you have the "earth" used in Biblical symbolism. In this case "earth" refers to society and people of a certain area or population. An example of Isaiah (which we know John uses his symbols) speaks to the earth here:
Isa 1:2: [SUP]2 [/SUP]Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth! For the Lord has spoken: “I have nourished and brought up children,
And they have rebelled against Me.
Obviously the planet EARTH did not rebel against God, the people did and a specific people, in this case Judah.
The big take away Popeye is that we cannot always read things in the Bible in our English transliteration and assume they always mean to the same thing to us as they did to them in their day, language and era. The Bible isn't translated, it's transliterated. The original text was divinely inspired but the many transliterations were not. I previously showed you two examples of Daniel referring to the "whole earth" and history shows it wasn't the entire planet. So if it works for Daniel, it works for John.