The Many Mansions Fallacy

[DP]

Our Lord Jesus speaking to His disciples...

John 14:2-3
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
KJV

I will show the difference between men's doctrines on those verses, vs. what God's Holy Writ reveals.

A. Men's doctrines teach that's about Jesus coming to 'rapture' His Church from the earth, take them to Heaven where they think The "Father's house" will be along with those "many mansions", and then to live and reign with Jesus from there forever.

Problem with that interpretation is it shows they haven't really done their homework in the Old Testament prophets like they were supposed to.


B. Per God's Word, The "Father's house" and the "many mansions" will be manifest ON THE EARTH when our Lord Jesus returns to reign here, with His elect, on earth (see also Rev.5:10). The Ezekiel 40 through 48 Chapters gave us the details of The Father's house and the abodes of the priests which is what those "many mansions" actually are. It all involves the sanctuary layout on earth in the future per the Book of Ezekiel 40-48.

Ezek 40:45-46
45 And he said unto me, This chamber, whose prospect is toward the south, is for the priests, the keepers of the charge of the house.

46 And the chamber whose prospect is toward the north is for the priests, the keepers of the charge of the altar: these are the sons of Zadok among the sons of Levi, which come near to the LORD to minister unto him.
KJV

The Hebrew word Zadok means 'The Just', or 'Righteous'. These represent Christ's elect who will reign with Him.


Ezek 45:2-5
2 Of this there shall be for the sanctuary five hundred in length, with five hundred in breadth, square round about; and fifty cubits round about for the suburbs thereof.

3 And of this measure shalt thou measure the length of five and twenty thousand, and the breadth of ten thousand: and in it shall be the sanctuary and the most holy place.

4 The holy portion of the land shall be for the priests the ministers of the sanctuary, which shall come near to minister unto the LORD: and it shall be a place for their houses, and an holy place for the sanctuary.

5 And the five and twenty thousand of length, and the ten thousand of breadth, shall also the Levites, the ministers of the house, have for themselves, for a possession for twenty chambers.
KJV

The Greek word for "mansions" in John 14:2 is mone, and it simply means an abode, or residence. That's what these houses above are that our Lord Jesus was talking about with that idea of "many mansions".

Now where God showed Ezekiel this Millennial Sanctuary called The "Father's house", would be located, we are shown at the start of Ezek.40:

Ezek 40:2
2 In the visions of God brought he me into the land of Israel, and set me upon a very high mountain, by which was as the frame of a city on the south.
KJV

This is the SAME holy city that Apostle John was given to see per Revelation 21, which there we are given even more details about the future New Jerusalem:

Rev 21:10
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
KJV


Here's a diagram of the Millennial Sanctuary based on the layout from the Book of Ezekiel:

https://levendwater.org/companion/append88.html

 

[FreeNChrist]

I don't really care "where" it will be. It is more than enough just to know I will be with Jesus, immanently and transcendently.

 

[psalm6819]

Presented in a more humble and positive light many may might learn from this thread

but I felt like I was being called......well.........at best unknowledgeable

 

[p_rehbein]

To OP:

Well, if that is the way you lean with your understanding, I suppose that is ok...........however, there are others who disagree with your understanding.......guess that makes them WHAT exactly?

 

[Mitspa]

Oh boy ..here we go with another bunch of people that have some "special" revelation of the bible ... I could test most of these people on basic foundational truths according to sound doctrine and they would not have a clue ...

 

[mpaper345]

God will gather His children unto Christ,and so they shall be forever with the Lord,and receive their glorified body.

At the battle of Armageddon,which is when the beast and the world makes war against Jerusalem,the Jews,God will come back with His children,and save Israel,and fight the world,and punish them for their sins and iniquities against Him.

Jesus and the saints will rule over one sixth of the people that fought against Jerusalem,that God spared,for 1000 years.

Then after the millennial reign the saints will dwell in the New Jerusalem,a new heaven,and a new earth,where sin has never been,and sin will never be.

The millennial reign is a physical reign.

Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
Zec 14:6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
Zec 14:7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
Zec 14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Nobody will acknowledge any other deity,or spiritual figure,except the LORD.

Isa 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
Isa 11:3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
Isa 11:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Isa 11:5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
Isa 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isa 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Isa 11:8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

There will be a 1000 years of peace,because Satan is bound for the 1000 years,and Jesus rules with a rod of iron,which animals will not fight with animals,or people,and the animals will be so tame that a little child can lead a lion,and the lion shall eat straw like an ox,and not eat animal meat,and there will be no war among people,and the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD,which people will only acknowledge the LORD,and no other deity,or religious figure.

Eze 39:1 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
Eze 39:2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:
Eze 39:3 And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand.


Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

The people that God spared at the battle of Armageddon have to go up year after year to worship the LORD at Jerusalem,and keep the feast of tabernacles,because they do not have the Spirit,and are not saved,so they have to keep that Old Testament ordinance,because they cannot be spiritual.

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

The millennial reign is over,which was on earth,for the Bible says here that they were on earth.

Then it chapter 21 the saints go to the New Jerusalem.

Some people say the millennial reign is a spiritual reign,and not a physical one,but that is not logical,for ever since Jesus resurrected to heaven He has been ruling,which He said all power is given unto Me in heaven,and in earth,so why is it only for 1000 years,when Jesus has been ruling ever since He resurrected.

And how is Jesus and the saints ruling for 1000 years,for they are doing a poor job of it,for how are they ruling if there has never been a 1000 years of peace,and people still reject God,and Jesus,and follow false religions,and wars,and fights,and people get more selfish,and arrogant,as time goes on.

Also it states plainly that it is a physical reign.

They say Daniel's 70 weeks have been fulfilled,but they do not read it right,for it says that 70 weeks are determined upon Israel,the main one to anoint the most holy,which means Israel as a nation has to acknowledge Jesus as the Messiah,and be in the truth.It is determined upon Israel as a nation,to finish the transgression that they rejected the truth,and acknowledge Jesus as their Messiah.

The Bible says Jesus came unto His own,but they did not receive Him,and Jesus said Israel shall not see Him again,until they say blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord,which as a nation accept Jesus.

Daniel chapter 9 is about 70 weeks determined upon Israel,that they have to finish the transgression,and be in the truth as a nation that Jesus is their Messiah,anoint the most holy.

Which when Jesus was on earth they did not receive Him as a nation,so the 70 weeks were not fulfilled then.

Because of their rejection of Christ,God allowed the Roman Empire to overthrown Jerusalem,and scatter them in to the nations,which they could not accept Him as a nation,for they were scattered in to the nations,so the 70 weeks were not fulfilled.

When they became Israel again,and to this day,they still as a nation do not accept Jesus as their Messiah,so the 70 weeks have not been fulfilled.

Add to it that Israel is blinded in part,until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in,which means Israel as a nation is in partial truth,but as a nation does not recognize Jesus as their Messiah,and the fulness of the Gentiles be come in,is when salvation is no longer available to them.

But we see that salvation is still available to the Gentiles,so Israel is still blinded in part,as a nation not accepting Jesus as their Messiah,so the 70 weeks could of not been fulfilled.

There will be a physical reign of Christ.

Joh 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

But this will not be manifest on earth,for Jesus said that He went away from the earth,to prepare a place for the saints,that where He is,where He went away to,they may also be there.

Jesus did not remain on earth,to prepare a place for the saints,but he went away from the earth to prepare a place.

There will be a physical reign of Christ on earth,and after that reign,then the saints will be in the New Jerusalem.

 

[PaulMack]

Also which you passed over is the new Earth will have no Oceans!

Revelation 1:1
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.

No Oceans at all!

I wonder how many who love to fish the Oceans will be pissed off. LOL.

 

[DP]

Oh boy ..here we go with another bunch of people that have some "special" revelation of the bible ... I could test most of these people on basic foundational truths according to sound doctrine and they would not have a clue ...

Not some special revelation. It simple written Scripture in God's Word.

It's obvious that many have never read through those Ezekiel 40 through 48 chapters, otherwise they'd easily understand this. The Millennial Sanctuary is something even Daniel covered. So it's not a big secret to those who study their Bible, which the diagram from the Christian Bible scholar E.W. Bullinger I offered at the end of my post reveals.

 

[DP]

To OP:

Well, if that is the way you lean with your understanding, I suppose that is ok...........however, there are others who disagree with your understanding.......guess that makes them WHAT exactly?

Don't have a clue as to what you're driving at.

 

[DP]

....

There will be a physical reign of Christ.

Joh 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

But this will not be manifest on earth,for Jesus said that He went away from the earth,to prepare a place for the saints,that where He is,where He went away to,they may also be there.

Jesus did not remain on earth,to prepare a place for the saints,but he went away from the earth to prepare a place.

There will be a physical reign of Christ on earth,and after that reign,then the saints will be in the New Jerusalem.

Very... excellent job with your explanation, until you get to the above point.

You admit there will be a physical reign by Christ, and then reject that it will be on earth, when Scripture says it will be:

Rev 5:9-10
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for Thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by Thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
KJV


Here's Scripture proof from Ezekiel 47 that God's house (i.e., the Father's house) is on the earth in the future, and not for after the 1,000, but during Christ's 1,000 years reign:

Ezekiel 47
47:1 Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south side of the altar.

Here Ezekiel is shown waters flowing out from under... the threshold of "the house" towards the east.

2 Then brought he me out of the way of the gate northward, and led me about the way without unto the utter gate by the way that looketh eastward; and, behold, there ran out waters on the right side.

These waters then continued to flow out the eastward gate.

3 And when the man that had the line in his hand went forth eastward, he measured a thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the waters were to the ancles.
4 Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through the waters; the waters were to the knees. Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through; the waters were to the loins.
5 Afterward he measured a thousand; and it was a river that I could not pass over: for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed over.

The angel brought Ezekiel outward where the waters were flowing a 1,000 cubits, the level was up to Ezekiel's ankles, then another 1,000 and the waters were up to his loins, then another 1,000 and the waters were as a fast flowing river that couldn't be crossed over.

6 And he said unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen this? Then he brought me, and caused me to return to the brink of the river.
7 Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other.

Then the angel brought Ezekiel back to the bank of the river, and showed him the very many trees on each side of the river.

8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.
9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.

The river will flow towards the east country, and go into the desert, and then into the sea, healing the waters it contacts. There will be great multitudes of fish because of the River healing the waters it comes into contact with. This is God's River of Genesis 2 that flowed out of His Garden of Eden and fed four other rivers upon the earth. This is the River of the waters of life John was shown in Revelation 22.


10 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from En-gedi even unto En-eglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.

Here we are told exactly WHERE this River flowing out of God's House will be. En-gedi and En-eglaim are geographical locations in the middle east.

11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.
12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.
KJV

These trees on either side the River banks shall be for meat, and the leaves shall never fade or die, and its fruit shall never be consumed. It will bring forth new fruit according to its months, because these trees will be fed by the waters that issued "out of the sanctuary". The leaves shall be for medicine, just as Revelation 22:2 also declares.

All that is not in Heaven friend. It's on the earth, and it is to occur prior to God's new heavens and a new earth. It begins during Christ's Millennial reign, because like Revelation 21 shows, in the new heavens and new earth timing after the 1,000 years, there will be no more temple needed.

 

[DP]

Also which you passed over is the new Earth will have no Oceans!

Revelation 1:1
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.

No Oceans at all!

I wonder how many who love to fish the Oceans will be pissed off. LOL.

Focus please.

The timing when there will be no more sea is for the new heavens and new earth timing, NOT... the time of Christ's 1,000 years reign with His elect on the earth like Rev.5:9-10 shows. There will still exist the wicked on earth during Christ's future 1,000 years reign (Rev.22:14-15). But those who perish in the lake of fire at the end of the 1,000 years will not sea God's new heavens and new earth after the 1,000 years.

Only SOME supernatural manifestations are going to occur on earth during Christ's 1,000 years reign, the manifesting of God's River and the Tree of Life again are two of them.

 

[popeye]

You do this over and over.

You leave out the context and all our verses that are alongside what Jesus said.

Then you ignore the no brainer obvious and build your case on the obscure.

lets see what Jesus said;
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
hello,he went to heaven
mat 26;29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

Mat 25;
Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

 

[Adstar]

Our Lord Jesus speaking to His disciples...

John 14:2-3
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
KJV

I will show the difference between men's doctrines on those verses, vs. what God's Holy Writ reveals.

A. Men's doctrines teach that's about Jesus coming to 'rapture' His Church from the earth, take them to Heaven where they think The "Father's house" will be along with those "many mansions", and then to live and reign with Jesus from there forever.

Problem with that interpretation is it shows they haven't really done their homework in the Old Testament prophets like they were supposed to.


B. Per God's Word, The "Father's house" and the "many mansions" will be manifest ON THE EARTH when our Lord Jesus returns to reign here, with His elect, on earth (see also Rev.5:10). The Ezekiel 40 through 48 Chapters gave us the details of The Father's house and the abodes of the priests which is what those "many mansions" actually are. It all involves the sanctuary layout on earth in the future per the Book of Ezekiel 40-48.

Ezek 40:45-46
45 And he said unto me, This chamber, whose prospect is toward the south, is for the priests, the keepers of the charge of the house.

46 And the chamber whose prospect is toward the north is for the priests, the keepers of the charge of the altar: these are the sons of Zadok among the sons of Levi, which come near to the LORD to minister unto him.
KJV

The Hebrew word Zadok means 'The Just', or 'Righteous'. These represent Christ's elect who will reign with Him.


Ezek 45:2-5
2 Of this there shall be for the sanctuary five hundred in length, with five hundred in breadth, square round about; and fifty cubits round about for the suburbs thereof.

3 And of this measure shalt thou measure the length of five and twenty thousand, and the breadth of ten thousand: and in it shall be the sanctuary and the most holy place.

4 The holy portion of the land shall be for the priests the ministers of the sanctuary, which shall come near to minister unto the LORD: and it shall be a place for their houses, and an holy place for the sanctuary.

5 And the five and twenty thousand of length, and the ten thousand of breadth, shall also the Levites, the ministers of the house, have for themselves, for a possession for twenty chambers.
KJV

The Greek word for "mansions" in John 14:2 is mone, and it simply means an abode, or residence. That's what these houses above are that our Lord Jesus was talking about with that idea of "many mansions".

Now where God showed Ezekiel this Millennial Sanctuary called The "Father's house", would be located, we are shown at the start of Ezek.40:

Ezek 40:2
2 In the visions of God brought he me into the land of Israel, and set me upon a very high mountain, by which was as the frame of a city on the south.
KJV

This is the SAME holy city that Apostle John was given to see per Revelation 21, which there we are given even more details about the future New Jerusalem:

Rev 21:10
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
KJV


Here's a diagram of the Millennial Sanctuary based on the layout from the Book of Ezekiel:

https://levendwater.org/companion/append88.html

So lets digest this..

1)You are saying that there is no rapture? Or are you saying there is no rapture that ends with Christians being in heaven?

2) Are you saying that the New Jerusalem revealed in Revelation 21 is to be built on earth during the 1000 year reign of the LORD on earth?

Looking forward to your clarifications..

 

[DP]

Here are some of the goings on regarding The Father's house in that future time of Christ's 1,000 years reign. Notice these following events are not... happy new heavens and a new earth timing. These events are about God's corrections upon His people and folks standing in judgment being disciplined. It's not a heavenly party at all, nor is it happening anywhere but on the earth:

Ezek 44:1-24
44:1 Then he brought me back the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary which looketh toward the east; and it was shut.
2 Then said the LORD unto me; "This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the LORD, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut.
3 It is for the prince; the prince, he shall sit in it to eat bread before the LORD; he shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate, and shall go out by the way of the same."

Ezekiel is brought to the east gate of the Sanctuary, and it was shut. Because God entered through this gate, no man shall enter in by it. It shall be kept shut.

4 Then brought he me the way of the north gate before the house: and I looked, and, behold, the glory of the LORD filled the house of the LORD: and I fell upon my face.

Ezekiel is brought to the north gate before the House. God's Glory filled the House and Ezekiel fell on his face in worship.

5 And the LORD said unto me, "Son of man, mark well, and behold with thine eyes, and hear with thine ears all that I say unto thee concerning all the ordinances of the house of the LORD, and all the laws thereof; and mark well the entering in of the house, with every going forth of the sanctuary.

God prepares Ezekiel to give His Message to the rebellious of the house of Israel. This should reveal to you that this is a time of correction upon God's people, not some event of floating off in the clouds to make merry.

6 And thou shalt say to the rebellious, even to the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; O ye house of Israel, let it suffice you of all your abominations,
7 In that ye have brought into My sanctuary strangers, uncircumcised in heart, and uncircumcised in flesh, to be in My sanctuary, to pollute it, even My house, when ye offer My bread, the fat and the blood, and they have broken My covenant because of all your abominations.
8 And ye have not kept the charge of Mine holy things: but ye have set keepers of My charge in My sanctuary for yourselves.
9 Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into My sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.

To the rebellious leaders of the house of Israel, God rebukes them for allowing the unholy and profane to continue in God's House to pollute it, and it involves following abominations God does not approve of. Can you guys think of any abominations going on in some of Christ's Church today?

10 And the Levites that are gone away far from Me, when Israel went astray, which went astray away from Me after their idols; they shall even bear their iniquity.
11 Yet they shall be ministers in My sanctuary, having charge at the gates of the house, and ministering to the house: they shall slay the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people, and they shall stand before them to minister unto them.

The Levites, the priests, who went astray when Israel went astray to idols, will bear their iniquity. That's about the priests which allowed Israel to go astray into Baal worship during THIS present world. This is about a time of correction for these during Christ's reign with His elect with "a rod of iron."

Notice these Levites (priests) are still going to be involved the goings on in God's House though, as they will be in charge of the gates, and ministering to the house, and minister before the people.

12 Because they ministered unto them before their idols, and caused the house of Israel to fall into iniquity; therefore have I lifted up Mine hand against them, saith the Lord GOD, and they shall bear their iniquity.
13 And they shall not come near unto Me, to do the office of a priest unto Me, nor to come near to any of My holy things, in the most holy place: but they shall bear their shame, and their abominations which they have committed.
14 But I will make them keepers of the charge of the house, for all the service thereof, and for all that shall be done therein.

Again, God will rebuke those priests that allowed the house of Israel to stray during this present world. Their punishment will be the menial duties of His House, and not being allowed to approach Christ in His Presence during that time.


15 But the priests the Levites, the sons of Zadok, that kept the charge of My sanctuary when the children of Israel went astray from Me, they shall come near to Me to minister unto Me, and they shall stand before Me to offer unto Me the fat and the blood, saith the Lord GOD:
16 They shall enter into My sanctuary, and they shall come near to My table, to minister unto Me, and they shall keep My charge.

These priests represent Christ's elect saints who will reign with Him during this time on earth. The name Zadok means 'The Just' or The Righteous, and Jesus is our King of Righteousness. These are allowed to approach Christ in His direct Presence in that time, and serve Him at His table. No others will be allowed.

In the Rev.3 Scripture there is a time marker to this event when Jesus said He will make those of the synagogue of Satan to come worship Him at the feet of His elect, so they will know that He loves His elect. The wicked will be made to come up to Jerusalem and worship Jesus from year to year, we are shown at the end of Zechariah 14.

17 And it shall come to pass, that when they enter in at the gates of the inner court, they shall be clothed with linen garments; and no wool shall come upon them, whiles they minister in the gates of the inner court, and within.
18 They shall have linen bonnets upon their heads, and shall have linen breeches upon their loins; they shall not gird themselves with any thing that causeth sweat.
19 And when they go forth into the utter court, even into the utter court to the people, they shall put off their garments wherein they ministered, and lay them in the holy chambers, and they shall put on other garments; and they shall not sanctify the people with their garments.
20 Neither shall they shave their heads, nor suffer their locks to grow long; they shall only poll their heads.
21 Neither shall any priest drink wine, when they enter into the inner court.
22 Neither shall they take for their wives a widow, nor her that is put away: but they shall take maidens of the seed of the house of Israel, or a widow that had a priest before.

These Zadok will wear linen, and will not minister to the people in their holy linens they approach Christ with. Their hair will be neat and clean cut, nor drink wine while performing their duties.

23 And they shall teach My people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.
24 And in controversy they shall stand in judgment; and they shall judge it according to My judgments: and they shall keep My laws and My statutes in all Mine assemblies; and they shall hallow My sabbaths.
KJV

This is what those of God's people who strayed will be under during that 1,000 years, which is a time of great teaching and correction. Christ's elect priests will teach them the difference between the unclean and the clean, the holy and the profane, and in controversy will the people stand in judgment the whole 1,000 years period. In that time God's laws shall be kept and all His sabbaths shall be hallowed.

These are events that are to begin with Christ's 2nd coming back to Jerusalem as written.

 

[DP]

So lets digest this..

1)You are saying that there is no rapture?

I don't use the word rapture since it's not in God's Word, but I will for your benefit here. Yes, there is a rapture, on the last day of this world when Jesus returns to gather His Church and go to Jerusalem, on earth. No where does God's Word teach that Christ raptures us to live off the earth; that idea is assumed and added by men. Even Rev.20:9 reveals where the "camp of the saints" is during Christ's future 1,000 years reign.

Or are you saying there is no rapture that ends with Christians being in heaven?

There is no rapture to live in the sky away from the earth. God's Word is specific that we shall live on the earth in His future Kingdom. Like I said before, the idea of Christ and His Church living up in the clouds is a false assumption by men's doctrines. It is not written.

At the same time, the difference between the heavens of the sky atmosphere vs. the Heavenly dimension where God's Abode is today, must be recognized. Per 1 Corinthians 15:23-28, Jesus must reign over the nations, all nations must bow, but The Father is excepted from that event. Then after the 1,000 years, the whole Godhead will be present on the earth with us, like Rev.21-22 and the last verse of Ezekiel 48 reveals. There is no such idea of living up in the clouds with our Lord Jesus written. And the heavenly dimension where God's Abode is at present is going to be revealed upon the earth with the new heavens and a new earth timing after the 1,000 years.

2) Are you saying that the New Jerusalem revealed in Revelation 21 is to be built on earth during the 1000 year reign of the LORD on earth?

Don't know if I'd use a word such as built in man's sense. But yes, PORTIONS of its manifestation are going to begin with Christ's 2nd coming and reign from Jerusalem with His elect priests and kings.

See the Ezekiel 44 through 47 chapters to see what I'm talking about.

See Bullinger's diagram of the Ezekiel sanctuary and oblation that I included in my OP, and note the distance it will reach out to towards the West. One should notice some kind of change of the lands of Israel must happen for the sanctuary to reach that far west, otherwise it would be partly in the Mediterranean Sea.

 

[DP]

Since I made it clear that there is no Scripture to show that we live with Jesus off the earth, would anyone like to know what that being "caught up" of 1 Thess.4 is revealing where we go??

 

[Adstar]

I don't use the word rapture since it's not in God's Word, but I will for your benefit here. Yes, there is a rapture, on the last day of this world when Jesus returns to gather His Church and go to Jerusalem, on earth. No where does God's Word teach that Christ raptures us to live off the earth; that idea is assumed and added by men. Even Rev.20:9 reveals where the "camp of the saints" is during Christ's future 1,000 years reign.

Ok cool thats my first question clarified.. I have no disagreement with your clarification.. Apart from you saying that there is no word rapture in the scriptures.. In the English scriptures there is ""caught up" which in the Latin scriptures is ""rapio"" which angelecised into the word rapture..

2) Are you saying that the New Jerusalem revealed in Revelation 21 is to be built on earth during the 1000 year reign of the LORD on earth?
Don't know if I'd use a word such as built in man's sense. But yes, PORTIONS of its manifestation are going to begin with Christ's 2nd coming and reign from Jerusalem with His elect priests and kings.

Well this is where i will disagree with you.. The New Jerusalem's origination is in heaven. It comes out of heaven down to earth already finish built.. and it comes out of heaven at the End of the 1000 Years reign of Jesus and His saints on earth..

Revelation 21: KJV
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

So this is the Place that Jesus was referring to when He said He was going to...

John 14: KJV 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Jesus did go to His Fathers House, Heaven. To prepare the New Jerusalem which is currently still in heaven for His Saints as their Eternal Abode.. But the New Jerusalem will one day Come out of Heaven and down onto the New Earth and we shall dwell in it with the LORD Jesus Christ for ever and ever..

 

[Adstar]

The temple you think is the New Jerusalem that shall be built on earth during the 1000 years is Not the New Jerusalem from heaven.. It is a different construction..

 

[Ahwatukee]

The temple you think is the New Jerusalem that shall be built on earth during the 1000 years is Not the New Jerusalem from heaven.. It is a different construction..

Very true. Once that antichrist makes his seven year covenant with Israel, it will allow them to build their long awaited temple and resume their sacrifices as specified in the law of Moses, where according to scripture they will be stopped in the middle of that seven years. The new Jerusalem doesn't show up until after the great white throne judgment and the departure of this current heaven and earth. And yes, it is a different construction and much, much, much bigger!

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hello adstar,

Ok cool thats my first question clarified.. I have no disagreement with your clarification.. Apart from you saying that there is no word rapture in the scriptures.. In the English scriptures there is ""caught up" which in the Latin scriptures is ""rapio"" which angelecised into the word rapture..

Actually, the Greek is the original and the word for "caught up" is "Harpazo," which is defined as:

* to seize, catch up, snatch away, force suddenly exercised

Harpazo is the same word used to when Paul said, that he was "caught up" to the third heaven, as well as when the male child of Rev.12 is "caught up" to God's throne and also when Philip was "caught up" after he baptized the eunuch.