What parts of Torah can we still keep today?

[beta]

I strongly believe that God is in the business of transformation, taking broken and sinful people and restoring them to their true identity. I'm sure that the celebrations at Christmas and Easter time were pagan but they were replaced as occasions to give glory to God and remember his goodness. Kind of similar to the way the Cross (a brutal method of execution) now stands as a symbol for Jesus conquering sin and death.

Thats just my two cents anyway.
(P.S. If it doesn't matter what you think then why should anyone listen? Haha, just kidding )

Friend, I believe we are to be a little more 'sensitive to the Will of God and what pleases HIM...not us.
God is Holy Spirit and has established HIS OWN holy time. He does not want to be sharing time with other gods and their unholy practices. Man thinks it matters not, but what we do is to FAIL to 'put difference between holy and unholy Lev 10v10, thereby causing 'spiritual contamination ! Jas 4v8, Tit 2v14.

 

[LaurenTM]

easter is pagan.
xmas is pagan.
eating pork is sin.
it doesn't matter what you think. or what I think.

16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

as I have indicated and others have indicated, a person is free to follow whatever they want

however, interpreting scripture through the lens of condemnation, which is, in effect, what you and your tribe do, is actually your opinion

you pick and choose scripture to follow, while leaving out anything that does not support your lifestyle choice

you see, you say it does not matter what a person thinks...but it does actually...it matters very much

you have not renewed your thinking...you have returned to what the NT says cannot save anyone

it is not what goes into a person that defiles them, but what comes out

Just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in him, 7rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness.8See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces[SUP]a[/SUP] of this world rather than on Christ.

9For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority. 11In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh[SUP]b[/SUP] was put off when you were circumcised by[SUP]c[/SUP]Christ,

2having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you[SUP]d[/SUP] alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.

15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.[SUP]e[/SUP]Freedom From Human Rules

16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

18Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind. 19They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow. Colossians 2

you are a part of the Hebrew Roots movement and people need to understand that is NOT Messianic Christianity

you have toned down your posts, but I remember them well from when you first joined this site

 

[Grace777x70]

easter is pagan.
xmas is pagan.
eating pork is sin.
it doesn't matter what you think. or what I think.

You sin every day by your willful breaking of the Law. Law-keepers water down the law to make it seen "do-able". If you break one law - James says you are guilty of them all.

No one is going to fall for this anti-Christ religion that you and others are espousing here. This is a Christ-focused form - not your religion.

disciplemike - repent and come to Christ. He is more then enough. He is Lord of all and His life in you is what we live by now.

Christians should be going on Hebrew forums to talk about Jesus - instead you are here trying to get Christians to desert Christ for the Law. Gal. 1:6

If one is going to live by the law - then he is obligated to live by all of it. There are no "parts" to the Law.

Saying that some are for us and some are not is just watering down the Law to make it seem "do-able" but in reality "law-keepers" have a very low respect for the Law and in fact break the law every day.

Romans 10:4-5 (NASB)

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

[SUP]5 [/SUP] For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness.

We have died to the Law SO THAT we might live unto God.

Galatians 2:19 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] "For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God.

There is no justification or right standing with God because one "keeps the law". Christians live by faith - faith in Christ and what He has already done and we live by His life in us now.

Galatians 3:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

The Law is NOT of faith and if you practice the Law - you must live by it.

Galatians 3:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM."

When we are trying to keep the law of which circumcision is a part of - we are obligated to keep the whole law ( Remember there are NO PARTS to the law - it is either all or live by Christ by grace through faith in His finished work on the cross and resurrection )

Galatians 5:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

We can trust the Holy Spirit and the life of Christ in us to lead us into life in Him. Let's eat from the tree of Life - which is Christ Himself in us. The Law is eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Choose Christ. He is our life. He is the Way, the Truth and the Life.

Colossians 3:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. ( NOT in the law of Moses )

 

[FreeNChrist]

I believe the entire Bible is applicable in our lives. Some laws are temporarily suspended and return during the Millennium. I believe in TRUTH and had to unlearn the lies,like Good Friday.

A ridiculous but convenient way to pretend you are keeping the Law even as you fail to keep it.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Do we sin in ignorance or do we sin willfully? I sinned in ignorance because I was born into a family that was all Southern Baptists. I no longer celebrate Christ's birthday in December, but my offspring do, because that is what I taught them. I eat a meal with them, and I accept their gifts, and they buy my gifts to give but for some time now I've been making quilts for everybody. I have two beautiful daughters who truly honor me, but they have no time for Bible Study or even a Sunday church. They do not impose on me on Saturday but they know I am there for them if sickness is involved or a crisis arises. I am actually teaching them now by my present actions. We do with our hands what is work and with our minds we speak what we believe.

As for Easter, I don't participate with family at all. They get it and don't impose. Maybe next year they'll come to Passover Seder.

Each day is a gift from God and if you love His Word, you will delight in all the blessings He gives back. The more we study and seek answers, like we do in here at CC BSF, we grow. Iron sharpens iron. We are not at the same place in our walks, but this was true in my immaturity and loved being with seasoned believers.

You will act out your convictions. We have our salvation only through Jesus. How we walk and talk after salvation, is about whether we grow and mature or stay infants on milk.

I personally desire to celebrate and observe the dates with God that He chose.

I can't judge you, but I am glad you asked.

That's just it, how we who are Christians walk "after" is the same way we began, by grace through faith. Not by reverting back to the Old that Jesus has freed us from.

 

[FreeNChrist]

easter is pagan.
xmas is pagan.
eating pork is sin.
it doesn't matter what you think. or what I think.

It matters entirely what we think. They are whatever we make of them. Just as those old symbols and shadows are.

What you do not understand is that is exactly how God works. He takes what is meant for evil and turns it to good. Something Christianity has always done.

 

[KohenMatt]

Do we sin in ignorance or do we sin willfully? I sinned in ignorance because I was born into a family that was all Southern Baptists. I no longer celebrate Christ's birthday in December, but my offspring do, because that is what I taught them. I eat a meal with them, and I accept their gifts, and they buy my gifts to give but for some time now I've been making quilts for everybody. I have two beautiful daughters who truly honor me, but they have no time for Bible Study or even a Sunday church. They do not impose on me on Saturday but they know I am there for them if sickness is involved or a crisis arises. I am actually teaching them now by my present actions. We do with our hands what is work and with our minds we speak what we believe.

As for Easter, I don't participate with family at all. They get it and don't impose. Maybe next year they'll come to Passover Seder.

Each day is a gift from God and if you love His Word, you will delight in all the blessings He gives back. The more we study and seek answers, like we do in here at CC BSF, we grow. Iron sharpens iron. We are not at the same place in our walks, but this was true in my immaturity and loved being with seasoned believers.

You will act out your convictions. We have our salvation only through Jesus. How we walk and talk after salvation, is about whether we grow and mature or stay infants on milk.

I personally desire to celebrate and observe the dates with God that He chose.

I can't judge you, but I am glad you asked.

A HUUUGE Amen on this one!!

 

[KohenMatt]

jcha I want to hear why you celebrate Passover Seder in detail I am curious? No argument I just want to know why in your heart you chose that way to serve Jesus?

Even though I'm not jcha, I'd like to answer at well, if you don't mind. (And even if you do mind, too bad. I'm going to answer anyway.)

(Other than the fact that God tells us to,) Celebrating Passover is a reminder of the sacrifice Jesus' made for us. It tells the story (in great detail) of God's redemptive plan that He set-up from the beginning of time. It takes the participant throughout this whole story using all of the senses to help that story sink in a little more, and helps the participant see that story from a different perspective. It is a telling of Biblical history and the history of God's people.

Most importantly, it is a celebration of what Jesus did for us, and the mercy shown to us. It recounts His death, His burial, and His resurrection and allows us to connect with it in a personal and real way during that seder.

 

[KohenMatt]

I strongly believe that God is in the business of transformation, taking broken and sinful people and restoring them to their true identity. I'm sure that the celebrations at Christmas and Easter time were pagan but they were replaced as occasions to give glory to God and remember his goodness. Kind of similar to the way the Cross (a brutal method of execution) now stands as a symbol for Jesus conquering sin and death.

Thats just my two cents anyway.
(P.S. If it doesn't matter what you think then why should anyone listen? Haha, just kidding )

While I definitely agree that God transforms the broken, there is no Biblical example of God taking holidays and traditions solely used for worshiping other gods and using all of those same practices to begin worshiping Him. In fact, when you look at Scripture, you see God taking such a hard stance against pagan forms of worship that He wants every last bit of those practices destroyed.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Even though I'm not jcha, I'd like to answer at well, if you don't mind. (And even if you do mind, too bad. I'm going to answer anyway.)

(Other than the fact that God tells us to,) Celebrating Passover is a reminder of the sacrifice Jesus' made for us. It tells the story (in great detail) of God's redemptive plan that He set-up from the beginning of time. It takes the participant throughout this whole story using all of the senses to help that story sink in a little more, and helps the participant see that story from a different perspective. It is a telling of Biblical history and the history of God's people.

Most importantly, it is a celebration of what Jesus did for us, and the mercy shown to us. It recounts His death, His burial, and His resurrection and allows us to connect with it in a personal and real way during that seder.

Except that is not what Passover is. That's what Christianity's Lord's table is.

The Jewish Passover memorial looked back to God’s delivery of the Jews from their bondage out of Egypt. It is the New memorial, the Lord's table, that looks back to the Cross through which Christ has delivered us from our bondage to the Law and sin and death.

 

[KohenMatt]

I strongly believe that God is in the business of transformation, taking broken and sinful people and restoring them to their true identity. I'm sure that the celebrations at Christmas and Easter time were pagan but they were replaced as occasions to give glory to God and remember his goodness. Kind of similar to the way the Cross (a brutal method of execution) now stands as a symbol for Jesus conquering sin and death.

Thats just my two cents anyway.
(P.S. If it doesn't matter what you think then why should anyone listen? Haha, just kidding )

While I definitely agree that God transforms the broken, there is no Biblical example of God taking holidays and traditions solely used for worshiping other gods and using all of those same practices to begin worshiping Him. In fact, when you look at Scripture, you see God taking such a hard stance against pagan forms of worship that He wants every last bit of those practices destroyed.

Here is an example of what I'm talking about in this week's Torah portion:

Deuteronomy 12:1-3
"These are the decrees and laws you must be careful to follow in the land that the Lord, the God of your ancestors, has given you to possess—as long as you live in the land. 2 Destroy completely all the places on the high mountains, on the hills and under every spreading tree, where the nations you are dispossessing worship their gods. 3 Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones and burn their Asherah poles in the fire; cut down the idols of their gods and wipe out their names from those places." [emphasis mine]

 

[jcha]

jcha I want to hear why you celebrate Passover Seder in detail I am curious? No argument I just want to know why in your heart you chose that way to serve Jesus?

In memorial of A) the first Passover when Israel prepared to leave Egypt after the death Angel passed over, and B) in memorial of Christ dying on Passover and removing the curse of sin and death.

When I understood the only possible date of Christ's death occurred on a Wednesday in 31 A.D., and He was in the grave a full 72 hours, that He fulfilled God's Spring Feasts perfectly, and thus Christ Second Coming He will fulfill God's Fall Feasts perfectly.

The Spring Feasts ( Passover, Feast of unleavened bread, Feast of Weeks/First fruits, and Pentecost/Shavuot) all celebrate Christ's death, burial and resurrection. Serving God in the way He desires is how we are set apart from others.

Why would one choose the Roman Catholic Sunday and Easter over God's Feasts?

 

[wvbeliever]

Well Kohenmatt I have to say I will tell you what Passover is according to scriptures I'd like to answer at well, if you don't mind. (And even if you do mind, too bad. I'm going to answer anyway.) The celebration of Passover is a festival Israel celebrated exodus from Egypt and the Israelites freedom from slavery to the Egyptians Exodus 12. And the Lord foretold this Exodus 6:6 Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the Lord, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments:. If your going to hold a different celebration that is fine I judge no man for any food or holiday but a true Passover the scriptures speak for themselves. What is yours is yours but what is Gods is Gods. Psalm 24:1 The earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein. jcha so you say when I celebrate the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus on Easter I blaspheme Him and His sacrifice? That is a yes or no question? Telling Him I love him and thank Him for it is blasphemy? Yes or no question.

 

[Grace777x70]

Here is an example of what I'm talking about in this week's Torah portion:

Deuteronomy 12:1-3

"These are the decrees and laws you must be careful to follow in the land that the Lord, the God of your ancestors, has given you to possess—as long as you live in the land.

2 Destroy completely all the places on the high mountains, on the hills and under every spreading tree, where the nations you are dispossessing worship their gods. 3 Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones and burn their Asherah poles in the fire; cut down the idols of their gods and wipe out their names from those places." [emphasis mine]

Check out what is said in green above. These are the decrees and laws that you must be careful to follow in the land of the Lord..etc - as long as you live in the land.

Do law-keepers now here in the world live in Israel? These decrees and laws have nothing to do with the Christian that is in Christ now. The law has been made obsolete. This shows that "law-keepers" are just "doing their own thing" and calling it "obeying the Lord".

And they are free to do what they wish as well.

People are free to do what they want in Christ concerning anything in the law but it has absolutely nothing to do with righteousness and "obeying the faith" which is total belief in Christ's finished work.

This "law-keeper" religion that disciplemike and some others teach here are an anti-Christ belief system which they try to cover up by saying "we are obeying the Lord".

 

[Dan_473]

Because we are totally surrounded by Mystery Babylon. Our English days of the week are also speaking other god names.

right, so... since speaking the names of other gods breaks all of Torah, it makes sense to use biblical names for the days of the week... first day, second day, etc

 

[Dan_473]

If this is not OUR home then why are we living in it and sharing in THEIR practices ?

'Come out of her my people'... says God !

exactly! so I often wonder why people who want to follow Torah don't form their own communities? have their own names for planets? isn't there something about going to the bathroom outside the camp, using a shovel? form your own community, then that could be practiced.

 

[Dan_473]

I believe the entire Bible is applicable in our lives. Some laws are temporarily suspended and return during the Millennium. I believe in TRUTH and had to unlearn the lies,like Good Friday.

is there something in the scriptures that says that some laws are temporarily suspended?

I can't think of anything, but I'm interested in what others have found.

 

[gb9]

the Old Testament teaches about God, the Patriarchs, the history of ancient Israel, and the ancient jewish laws that set them apart from other nations. the New Testament teaches about Jesus, and how Christians are supposed to live and behave. very simple if it is read without agendas imposed.

the teachings of the New Testament do not teach Christ followers how to be better jews.

 

[lv2ski]

no, but they do bring in the evergreen tree, and bow down to it. and the gold and silver balls hanging on it.
and the pretty boxes under it.

brother this is coming from a guy who really enjoyed the xmas season.
I didn't give that up easily.

When the Bible talks about a tree, that doesn't necessarily mean a seven foot Spruce. In the OT the "pagan trees " were more like totum poles, just like our Lord's cross. They decorated them and danced and sang around them. Just a thought; when the children of Israel were commanded to destroy the"high places " (idol worship places) they would, and then later they would get another wicked King, who wouldn't walk in the ways of the Lord. Then he would rebuild them. Can't build a tree and I don't think they waited50 years for new one ro grow either.

 

[KohenMatt]

Well Kohenmatt I have to say I will tell you what Passover is according to scriptures I'd like to answer at well, if you don't mind. (And even if you do mind, too bad. I'm going to answer anyway.) The celebration of Passover is a festival Israel celebrated exodus from Egypt and the Israelites freedom from slavery to the Egyptians Exodus 12. And the Lord foretold this Exodus 6:6 Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the Lord, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments:. If your going to hold a different celebration that is fine I judge no man for any food or holiday but a true Passover the scriptures speak for themselves. What is yours is yours but what is Gods is Gods. Psalm 24:1 The earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.

I celebrate this as well. This is typically the 1st part of the seder that we do. We take it several steps further into the real substance of Passover: Jesus' sacrifice.

jcha so you say when I celebrate the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus on Easter I blaspheme Him and His sacrifice? That is a yes or no question? Telling Him I love him and thank Him for it is blasphemy? Yes or no question.

I'll go ahead and throw my thoughts in here as well if you don't mind (And even if you do mind, too bad. I'm going to answer anyway.)

Is it blasphemy? No.
I don't think people who legitimately celebrate easter and christmas in honor of Jesus and avoid all of the pagan traditions and practices are blaspheming Jesus. However, I don't think He's as pleased as He would be if we did things the way He set up, not according to the traditions of men. I believe He would rather us worship Him in Spirit AND in truth. (John 4:24)

If my little kids start celebrating my birthday by telling me how much they love me and getting me gifts, but it's 3 months away from my real birthday, of course I'd be pleased and blessed. But when they're in their 20's, I would expect them to figure out when my real birthday is and celebrate it then. Otherwise it says they don't really care about fully celebrating my birthday; there's still an element of them doing it how they see fit.