Gay and Lesbian Announcement: Once Saved Always Saved

[zohar]

God agreed not to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah if there will be ten moral people there, so if the rest of them are homosexuals then it may be acceptable to be homosexuals.

 

[renewed_hope]

I joined this site thinking how wonderful it was going to be to share heartfelt testimonies with brothers and sisters. I soon discovered there are people here who don't know God's grace and the completed, perfect works of Jesus. And their self righteousness is disturbing to say the least. I ended up being swept up into the calamity, and though you are correct in your observation, I feel inclined to battle those who cause stumbling blocks upon others who seek God's grace.

Yeah me too bro...where there are people there will always be disagreements unfortunately and even when the word of God is black and white people feel there should be a whole gray area..its quite a bummer cause they sure are missing out on his unfailing love, grace, and mercy

 

[mj007]

I accept that, thanks for rewording it. It's just discernment. There is correcting peoples words, and there is correcting peoples intentions. Making people think, that's all. All you can do is make people think. Where do words come from? Better to attack that part of people which is in a different form, somewhat formless and not shown on the outside. God bless

For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

I didn't say otherwise. You may have somewhat of an agenda if you missed what I was saying to nitpick on the way I worded that statement. The point was that homosexuals are sinners, just as any of those other sinners listed and all people are in need of Christ. We all are loved by God, and His grace is extended to us all.

I didn't put myself on a high horse, so you are attacking a straw man. If you had the time to review my posts you'd see that on posts that are harsh towards homosexuals I make it clear in my post that God loves them and His grace is sufficient for them as it is for the person being critical of them.

We are not to condemn the world, for not even Jesus Himself came to condemn the world but save it. It is God's goodness that leads men to repentance, and so lets express that goodness as the Holy Spirit convicts them unto faith in Christ.

 

[mj007]

We are on the same page there. For those seeking God's grace we are to give God's grace that maybe we feel more open to, than the other. Myself I am looking for God's grace, and a sense of belonging and being in the right place where I learn. We can all teach each other something, none of us our perfect, but together we can help each be better people. I see the constant back and forth of some people, always having to have the last word, and it reminds me of why I don't use things such as Facebook. It's pointless argument, no-one learns anything. Surely in a place devoted to God, and finding God, finding peace within us, finding love for each other and fellowship, and having a better relationship with Jesus who is centre to Christianity, and the biggest example for how we should be in ourselves, how we speak online should be 'nothing' like the worldly way of internet argument.

I have a habit of seriousness, sometimes I could be a bit more light-hearted I admit these things. However, the way I see some people smirk with their funny comments, or sarcastic comments, which is deeper pride, I do not learn from that and I don't want to be like that, it reminds me in no way of Jesus or of a loving environment, and it would be nice to see a place such as this be a loving environment where there is no toxicity. But we can only do it together.

And I say that in love and peace

I joined this site thinking how wonderful it was going to be to share heartfelt testimonies with brothers and sisters. I soon discovered there are people here who don't know God's grace and the completed, perfect works of Jesus. And their self righteousness is disturbing to say the least. I ended up being swept up into the calamity, and though you are correct in your observation, I feel inclined to battle those who cause stumbling blocks upon others who seek God's grace.

 

[Utah]

Is sex is a sin?

Not as much as calling someone the antichrist.

 

[willybob]

All vile sins of the flesh are an abomination to the Lord, not just Sodomy....

Job had some sins of ignorance, chastisement corrections, human frailties & flaws, and not having all knowledge....BUT, he never engaged in the vile sins of the flesh that Paul said would disqualify one from inheriting the kingdom.....Job therefore was morally upright and perfect before God...Dig deep, lay a good foundation, and build your works of the Rock of Truth

 

[mj007]

Yes and it is love, grace and mercy we can reflect in Gods image towards each other.

Yeah me too bro...where there are people there will always be disagreements unfortunately and even when the word of God is black and white people feel there should be a whole gray area..its quite a bummer cause they sure are missing out on his unfailing love, grace, and mercy

 

[Magenta]

You have authority, you purple goddess of wisdom and joy.

Heh, thank you for your kind words, but you know, nobody really has any authority here, except for the mods. We are all on equal ground in terms of how we stand with each other, which on a public forum such as this, translates to, when someone disagrees with you, they will not normally recognize anything authoritative about you. Or, if they do, they will be just as likely to rant and rage and resentfully rail against it, unless they respect you somehow. Even people who have a huge repertoire of Scriptural knowledge, like Angela for instance, who has really studied and poured her life into understanding and disseminating and sharing the revealed written Word of God, gets dissed by those who disagree with her. Human nature is like that Look what they did to Jesus, the ultimate authority! Well, we did that, yes? The natural man and all.

I just wondered about mj007 saying people who have authority do not bat an eye. That seems an assumption of fairly epic proportions. I could spend all my time here criticising others for how they twist this word or overlook that word, or criticize others for how they treat others, etc, but what would be the point of that? That is, after all, not what I have come here to do! Plus, I have acknowledged my powerlessness over the bad behaviours of others. That means also that I am not going to waste a lot of time time trying to control the bad behaviors of others, but that does not mean I never bat an eye over it, or never say anything about it at times. It gives me as much pause as anybody else, and I am sure I am seen as being just as guilty of bad behaviour as the next person by some here, especially those I may have taken to task over something. That does not mean I am always guilty of bad behavior when it is laid at my doorstep, for I have been falsely accused as well, but I am certainly not claiming innocence either. The biggest room in the world is the one for improvement

God has the power to restrain evil, not I, and some day, He shall wipe every vestige of it from the face of the earth. Until then, we look forward to that glorious day and make the best of it, each in our own way, and we have a choice in how we behave. God gives us that choice. If a person's conscience never pricks them when they behave badly, that is a fault of their own, not mine.

 

[chickenkiller]

Heh, thank you for your kind words, but you know, nobody really has any authority here, except for the mods. We are all on equal ground in terms of how we stand with each other, which on a public forum such as this, translates to, when someone disagrees with you, they will not normally recognize anything authoritative about you. Or, if they do, they will be just as likely to rant and rage and resentfully rail against it, unless they respect you somehow. Even people who have a huge repertoire of Scriptural knowledge, like Angela for instance, who has really studied and poured her life into understanding and disseminating and sharing the revealed written Word of God, gets dissed by those who disagree with her. Human nature is like that Look what they did to Jesus, the ultimate authority! Well, we did that, yes? The natural man and all.

I just wondered about mj007 saying people who have authority do not bat an eye. That seems an assumption of fairly epic proportions. I could spend all my time here criticising others for how they twist this word or overlook that word, or criticize others for how they treat others, etc, but what would be the point of that? That is, after all, not what I have come here to do! Plus, I have acknowledged my powerlessness over the bad behaviours of others. That means also that I am not going to waste a lot of time time trying to control the bad behaviors of others, but that does not mean I never bat an eye over it, or never say anything about it at times. It gives me as much pause as anybody else, and I am sure I am seen as being just as guilty of bad behaviour as the next person by some here, especially those I may have taken to task over something. That does not mean I am always guilty of bad behavior when it is laid at my doorstep, for I have been falsely accused as well, but I am certainly not claiming innocence either. The biggest room in the world is the one for improvement

God has the power to restrain evil, not I, and some day, He shall wipe every vestige of it from the face of the earth. Until then, we look forward to that glorious day and make the best of it, each in our own way, and we have a choice in how we behave. God gives us that choice. If a person's conscience never pricks them when they behave badly, that is a fault of their own, not mine.

You tell me

 

[Ahwatukee]

God agreed not to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah if there will be ten moral people there, so if the rest of them are homosexuals then it may be acceptable to be homosexuals.

Hello Zohar,

Why would you think that it may be acceptable to be a homosexual? Because God will not punish the righteous with the wicked, he sent his angels to remove Lot and his family from the city of Sodom because he was about to destroy it. Once Lot and his daughters were clear of that area, then God destroyed Sodom, Gomorrah and the surrounding cities because of their sin of homosexuality. Regarding homosexuality scripture says the following:

"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to or perform homosexual acts, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God."

Just as with all sin, those who come to Christ who were living same-sex life styles must repent. Christ did not shed his blood so that we could continue living according to the sinful nature. In the same way that those who, before coming to Christ, were thief's, liar's, slanderer's, murderer's, etc., must repent, so also those who are living same-sex life styles must also repent.

Scripture is clear that if we sow to the Spirit we will reap eternal life. But those who sow to the flesh will reap destruction. - Galatians 6:7-8

 

[stonesoffire]

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

abusers of themselves with mankind:

[h=1]G733[/h]ἀρσενοκοίτης
arsenokoitēs
ar-sen-ok-oy'-tace
From G730 and G2845; a sodomite: - abuser of (that defile) self with mankind.
Total KJV occurrences: 2

1Co 6:11 That is what some of you were! But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of our Lord Jesus the Messiah and by the Spirit of our God.

1Co 5:11 But now I am writing to you to stop associating with any so-called brother if he is sexually immoral, greedy, an idolater, a slanderer, a drunk, or a robber. You must even stop eating with someone like that.

I think it was presidente who posted the scripture about turning one over to Satan.

Ive only seen a person who had a position in a church brought before the congregation for adultery once. A very heavy moment.

 

[mj007]

Yes I get what you are saying. I just don't want to elaborate on it, it is for those who are maybe under the impression they have more authority than everyone of us has if it is in line with God, to point out the evils not just of words, but of the underlying intentions that create them. Because no-one really talks about that, the intention behind words. I'm by no means a gifted communicator, never have been, and sometimes my words come out the wrong way!

As Albert Einstein said:

The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.

And I think this does have validity, because people see and they allow, and evil often groups together and festers until before you know it, it's running the country! Often concerned with power. So yes we can all do something about it when we expose it. A bit like if we say to a friend, you know, you shouldn't say things like that. We are being kind and well-meaning in that. We could also simply condemn them, but I think kindness goes a lot further unless they are that far gone unspiritually.

So forgive me if my words come out lacking in fluidity, my intention is peaceful.

God bless

Heh, thank you for your kind words, but you know, nobody really has any authority here, except for the mods. We are all on equal ground in terms of how we stand with each other, which on a public forum such as this, translates to, when someone disagrees with you, they will not normally recognize anything authoritative about you. Or, if they do, they will be just as likely to rant and rage and resentfully rail against it, unless they respect you somehow. Even people who have a huge repertoire of Scriptural knowledge, like Angela for instance, who has really studied and poured her life into understanding and disseminating and sharing the revealed written Word of God, gets dissed by those who disagree with her. Human nature is like that Look what they did to Jesus, the ultimate authority! Well, we did that, yes? The natural man and all.

I just wondered about mj007 saying people who have authority do not bat an eye. That seems an assumption of fairly epic proportions. I could spend all my time here criticising others for how they twist this word or overlook that word, or criticize others for how they treat others, etc, but what would be the point of that? That is, after all, not what I have come here to do! Plus, I have acknowledged my powerlessness over the bad behaviours of others. That means also that I am not going to waste a lot of time time trying to control the bad behaviors of others, but that does not mean I never bat an eye over it, or never say anything about it at times. It gives me as much pause as anybody else, and I am sure I am seen as being just as guilty of bad behaviour as the next person by some here, especially those I may have taken to task over something. That does not mean I am always guilty of bad behavior when it is laid at my doorstep, for I have been falsely accused as well, but I am certainly not claiming innocence either. The biggest room in the world is the one for improvement

God has the power to restrain evil, not I, and some day, He shall wipe every vestige of it from the face of the earth. Until then, we look forward to that glorious day and make the best of it, each in our own way, and we have a choice in how we behave. God gives us that choice. If a person's conscience never pricks them when they behave badly, that is a fault of their own, not mine.

 

[willybob]

What did Einstein mean by doing nothing? He believed in many strange things..Most of his theology came from Plato...

If Christians really want to do something that will make a difference in the world the answer is to stop sinning....Jesus said to judge all things righteously and not hypocritically....

 

[Ugly]

What did Einstein mean by doing nothing? He believed in many strange things..Most of his theology came from Plato...

If Christians really want to do something that will make a difference in the world the answer is to stop sinning....Jesus said to judge all things righteously and not hypocritically....

So i'm guessing you no longer sin?

 

[samuel23]

Hi mjoo7: In post #64 you were clearly defending homosexuality, something that is an abomination to God. As Christians our allegiance is first and foremost to God, if the word of God says that homosexuality is an abomination to God, then we accept that homosexuality is an abomination to God. Homophobia is a word created by the world in an attempt to shame Christians into accepting what is an abomination to God. You speak of homosexuals having their own church...that is ridiculous, homosexuality is a lifestyle that has to be repented of before God will forgive sin and give the Spirit. You can be a homosexual and come to church, but if you repent and accept Jesus as Savior then you will not go out of that church a homosexual, you will go out a child of God. No one is born a homosexual, it is something learned and that displeases God, even enough to destroy a whole town for doing it. The best thing you can do for a homosexual is to encourage then to forsake homosexuality and turn to God. To do anything to make a homosexual feel comfortable in their sin is a terrible disservice to them.

 

[willybob]

So i'm guessing you no longer sin?

Please clarify which sins you mean. are you speaking of the vile sins of the flesh that Paul said would disqualify one from the kingdom? or are you speaking of mistakes in judgement, moments of anger, sins of ignorance, lack of full knowledge? Some presuppose the "do you sin" mantra, or what I call the universal gottcha question, ha, ha!!! They are doing nothing more than what the Pharisees did seeking to trap Jesus from a heart filled with guile. I ask you which of the vile sins of the flesh that disqualify one from inheriting the kingdom cant you cease from?................dig deep. it dark out there, blind leading the blind on all streets..

 

[88]

God agreed not to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah if there will be ten moral people there, so if the rest of them are homosexuals then it may be acceptable to be homosexuals.

****God did not want to judge the righteous with the wicked----just like the Rapture before The Great Tribulation...

 

[88]

I think the question is, does homophobia exist in the church? And I think the answer is yes. The idea of homosexuality to me is a cringey subject, only because I'm heterosexual. But the idea that people can love each other without the physical sin, doesn't that need to be accepted more in the church?

Just because someone is gay or lesbian does not mean you have to assume they are sexually active.

Sexual promiscuity is as prevelant with heterosexuals, as it is with homosexuals. But when a heterosexual comes to church or wants to be a part of something Christian, do people treat them the same as a homosexual?

How many heterosexual people here have sex outside of marriage? I'm sure it is nowhere near 'none'.

Do people judge by labels? Again the answer is yes, generally people do. So if to escape this, there became a separate church created by gays/lesbians, isn't that a symptom of the lack of love people have for their kind, and for each other?

As Christians we can help to take away the labels we put on others. In our humility.

Homosexuals have always existed, but it is only in the last half a century that they were less oppressed. They haven't just appeared out of nowhere in big numbers. And yet people still feel that they should be oppressed, as in, both the sexually active, and the sexually inactive - that is what going by a label does.

Reality evolves, freedom evolves, civilised societies evolve, rights evolve, law evolves. Religion evolves too. We are not living in bible times. And things don't tend to devolve, or go backwards in time.

Would anyone like to live in a Muslim country where people still get stoned to death?

***homosexuals should be welcomed in the Church----not so they can celebrate their sinful lifestyle---but to hear the Gospel with the rest of the imperfect people----if people flaunt sin openly in the Church whether heterosexual or homosexual this is wrong----if a person is a practicing homosexual they must repent----if a person is a practicing adulterer they must repent----even Steven...

 

[88]

with caution, I would say that it depends on how the person's life effects their heart.

this is something only God can judge -- but did they continue to have faith in Christ above all else, and when they meet Christ are they willing to put everything else aside? Or is that part of their life now the most important thing to them, a form of self-worship? Are they embittered towards other Christians and is that bitter narcissism now their guiding principle, or are they simply enslaved by spiritual torment that they lacked the spiritual support to overcome?

Only God can judge, and while I agree that this question could help some, if it incites others to try and judge in God's place (even to judge them as saved, when it is not their place to say), then that isn't helpful.

Christianity isn't all about certainty -- sometimes it is in the questions that we are close to God.

****we shouldn't judge people's hearts---we should preach the Word in Love and rightly divide the Word of Truth----that is the goal when it comes to the gay question and Once Saved Always Saved---two big issues that affect many people...

 

[88]

Where have you been? It's been going on for decades, and many church divisions have already occurred over this. Especially in the mainline denominations.

****I agree---but now it seems to be affecting so many people in the Church as never before---example---25 years ago you would mention homosexuality and people would think of an act ect.----today when you mention homosexuality most people think of a person---a friend---a neighbor---a family member---the issue in now getting charged with emotion instead of reason----we are facing a bigger and different crisis...