are there any universalists here?????

[valiant]

you believe in annihilationism?

I believe in eternal positive destruction which is required by Scripture

 

[Willie-T]

Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post

That fact was even shown in the Garden of Eden. Before sin, life seems to keep on going. After sin, there comes an appointed time for every man to physically die, but it is not an immediate occurrence. After sin entered the world, man undergoes physical death. But in one case, there is no reversal of the condition, and in the other case, resurrection has been offered.

None of that indicates exactly what continuing without resurrection really means.

(Trying to pick a story everyone knows here)
So, with your way of thinking Star Wars was all about a fight between the Empire and Rebel Forces, but nothing whatsoever about the Skywalker family or the Jedis? The reason I ask, is you seem stuck at the beginning of the book, as if nothing happens after the beginning. It really does!

I'm not sure how talking about us having lasting life through the Resurrection, is "being stuck at the beginning of the book."

 

[Depleted]

I can see both sides of the discussion Muzungu.

It's possible that under the old world - pre 70 AD that some were saved and some not.

Under the new covenant it maybe is possible all are saved.

1 Cor 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

1 Cor 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

1 Cor 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

When Paul said "The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law" he was speaking of the old covenant law which was abolished in the 1st century with the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Paul called the old law the ministration of death:

2 Cor 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

2 Cor 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

Where in the scriptures is the new covenant called a ministration of death?

Under it "maybe possible that all are saved," what do you see of the chances for --
Judas?
Pontius Pilate?
The soldiers that beat up Jesus before he died?
The other thief on the cross? (The quiet one.)
Nero?
Stalin?
Hirohito?
Charlie Manson or Ted Bundy?
Saddam Huassin?
Bin Laden?
The jackass Africans who slaughter villages, rape the women and children, and turn the boys into soldiers or diamond slaves?
The cartels who sell children to Americans?

 

[slave]

Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

If Paul died when the commandment came and continued on to write about it then it can be inferred that physical death is not the penalty for sin.

Yes?

Inferred? = deduce, and how (what process) do you deduce things? How has Jesus told us to deduce things?

 

[Muzungu256]

First, kudos on the effort to restrain multiple punctuation marks. Honest. I just found out I slouch, and I keep forgetting not to. So undoing a bad habit is hard, and I'm truly impressed how well you're fighting it.

Second, you're teaching a false gospel, which really doesn't do anything for anyone. If everyone is saved, who cares about this Jesus dude? Live and let live.

people should care because u can be set free of hatred addiction and many things during this life, salvation is now and here. its not only something abstract.
you can be filled with love now so why make it hard on yourself. id say everyone should care about this Jesus, he died for us and loved us FIRST. he redeems all of us who died in adam, and makes us alive again. reconciling everything. thats true powerful victorious gospel id say, total restoration and reconciliation. if God expects us to forgive 70 times 7 why wouldnt He let mercy triumph over judgment and get the most glory possible to Himself by restoration and reconciliation of all things in Christ. i know u dont agree but i still wish you are blessed.... dont make God into a box, 99 is not enough, God wants 100% . our God is an awesome God

 

[Depleted]

are you wholly comprised of matter and energy?
are you suggesting that if i had the right frequencies and had sufficient control of a field, i could transplant "you" into any object i wanted to?

if i took half of your brain, and was able to transplant it into a living body that had no brain, while keeping the other half of your brain alive and functional in its original body, where would you be?

ME's room and you'd be the prime suspect. lol

 

[Locutus]

It depends on how the scripture is emphasized:

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

So is the "we" that Paul is speaking of only the so called "elect"?

Rom 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

We just have to figure out who this "Manny" is...

Watch the "elect" have a field day with this...

 

[slave]

Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

If Paul died when the commandment came and continued on to write about it then it can be inferred that physical death is not the penalty for sin.

Yes?

The death in the spirit of the first man gradually spread to the realm of the body. Although after his spirit died, he still lived for a long time, during that time death was operating in him. It continued to work in him until his spirit, soul, and body all became dead. At that time, a body that could have been glorified and changed was turned back to dust. When the inner man within him became disorganized and fallen, his outer body was destined to death and destruction.

Paul is referencing the purpose of the law that showed sin to be unavoidable without a change of spirit from death to life again. The need to be reborn. Without a rule book one would not know they are not following the rules.

 

[Depleted]

I'm not sure how talking about us having lasting life through the Resurrection, is "being stuck at the beginning of the book."

You were talking about what became of Adam? And then conjecturing what happens to us based on what happened to him?

Again, I get Sheol/Hades was vague in the first half of the book, but it became much clearer where Jesus talked about it.

 

[Willie-T]

It depends on how the scripture is emphasized:

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

So is the "we" that Paul is speaking of only the so called "elect"?

Rom 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

We just have to figure out who this "Manny" is...

Watch the "elect" have a field day with this...

Many sounds like he has a spit personality, to me.

 

[Willie-T]

First, kudos on the effort to restrain multiple punctuation marks. Honest. I just found out I slouch, and I keep forgetting not to. So undoing a bad habit is hard, and I'm truly impressed how well you're fighting it.

Second, you're teaching a false gospel, which really doesn't do anything for anyone. If everyone is saved, who cares about this Jesus dude? Live and let live.

people should care because u can be set free of hatred addiction and many things during this life, salvation is now and here. its not only something abstract.
you can be filled with love now so why make it hard on yourself. id say everyone should care about this Jesus, he died for us and loved us FIRST. he redeems all of us who died in adam, and makes us alive again. reconciling everything. thats true powerful victorious gospel id say, total restoration and reconciliation. if God expects us to forgive 70 times 7 why wouldnt He let mercy triumph over judgment and get the most glory possible to Himself by restoration and reconciliation of all things in Christ. i know u dont agree but i still wish you are blessed.... dont make God into a box, 99 is not enough, God wants 100% . our God is an awesome God

While I do not believe in Allie, Allie-in-Free "Universalism", I will never presume to make a statement that God will not work out a way that He ends up saving absolutely anyone He chooses to save.... and that includes that list of "unsavables".

The real question is.... Which one of us would vote for them going to a "Hell" over them being saved?

 

[Magenta]

I believe in eternal positive destruction which is required by Scripture

Some think that silly, how dare any suggest death as a punishment? God is to make all things new, well, except for this little corner over here where we have the souls of all those people who were destined to destruction, being tortured and tormented for an eternity because God is so loving and just it is required He punish forever those He failed to save...

 

[Depleted]

people should care because u can be set free of hatred addiction and many things during this life, salvation is now and here. its not only something abstract.
you can be filled with love now so why make it hard on yourself. id say everyone should care about this Jesus, he died for us and loved us FIRST. he redeems all of us who died in adam, and makes us alive again. reconciling everything. thats true powerful victorious gospel id say, total restoration and reconciliation. if God expects us to forgive 70 times 7 why wouldnt He let mercy triumph over judgment and get the most glory possible to Himself by restoration and reconciliation of all things in Christ. i know u dont agree but i still wish you are blessed.... dont make God into a box, 99 is not enough, God wants 100% . our God is an awesome God

If I'm going to be saved/freed no matter what I do, why be freed at all? Honestly? Being stoned was a pleasant diversion. So was playing video games for hours on end every day. Eating ice cream, Doritoes, McDonald's fries (when made from lard), brown sugar right out of the box, or, better yet mixed in with butter, all wonderful yummy things.

Sex. SEX! Whoa doggie, if I am free no matter what I do, then why not head to the nearest bar? There's always guys in their enjoying their addictions too.

If I simply can't find a job because I'm busy being free, who cares? I'm free! Why give up addictions, if the only purpose in being freed is to give up addiction? Don't judge me on addictions, because I'm free. Free to do whatever I want with no guilt attached. There is NO purpose in giving up addictions without guilt -- REAL guilt! Real guilt with real punishments.

And who cares what God wants? At the end of all this we're all going to the eternal vacation package anyway.

This is your message and I'm hearing it loud and clear -- be selfish because God doesn't care anyway. We all get the ring on this merry-go-round.

 

[Depleted]

There's a lot of "I'm never going to be able" we claim now that will be disproved in eternity.

Base, thanks for the rep, but that never meant I agree with you. As it stands now, all your claims will be disproved. I am praying God has mercy on you and saves you.

 

[valiant]

It depends on how the scripture is emphasized:

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

So is the "we" that Paul is speaking of only the so called "elect"?

Rom 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

We just have to figure out who this "Manny" is...

Watch the "elect" have a field day with this...

yep the many who are made righteous are the elect

 

[Muzungu256]

Under it "maybe possible that all are saved," what do you see of the chances for --
Judas?
Pontius Pilate?
The soldiers that beat up Jesus before he died?
The other thief on the cross? (The quiet one.)
Nero?
Stalin?
Hirohito?
Charlie Manson or Ted Bundy?
Saddam Huassin?
Bin Laden?
The jackass Africans who slaughter villages, rape the women and children, and turn the boys into soldiers or diamond slaves?
The cartels who sell children to Americans?

it might be impossible for people to forgive such wicked people, but nothing is impossible to God. you gotta think that these people did not have it so good either, something happened to them. and also Jesus said forgive them for they know what they do.

 

[Willie-T]

it might be impossible for people to forgive such wicked people, but nothing is impossible to God. you gotta think that these people did not have it so good either, something happened to them. and also Jesus said forgive them for they know what they do.

We can't deny that every word of that is true.

 

[Muzungu256]

If I'm going to be saved/freed no matter what I do, why be freed at all? Honestly? Being stoned was a pleasant diversion. So was playing video games for hours on end every day. Eating ice cream, Doritoes, McDonald's fries (when made from lard), brown sugar right out of the box, or, better yet mixed in with butter, all wonderful yummy things.

Sex. SEX! Whoa doggie, if I am free no matter what I do, then why not head to the nearest bar? There's always guys in their enjoying their addictions too.

If I simply can't find a job because I'm busy being free, who cares? I'm free! Why give up addictions, if the only purpose in being freed is to give up addiction? Don't judge me on addictions, because I'm free. Free to do whatever I want with no guilt attached. There is NO purpose in giving up addictions without guilt -- REAL guilt! Real guilt with real punishments.

And who cares what God wants? At the end of all this we're all going to the eternal vacation package anyway.

This is your message and I'm hearing it loud and clear -- be selfish because God doesn't care anyway. We all get the ring on this merry-go-round.

you think you are disproving my point but what you are actually doing is showing you serve out of fear and not love. you claim if it wasnt for the doctrine of eternal torment you would go to boozing and fornicating, so what is your motivation? i see its not love for Christ.. how sad. i wouldnt get happy going to 'the nearest bar' thats misery.
remember: perfect love casts out all fear!!

 

[Willie-T]

you think you are disproving my point but what you are actually doing is showing you serve out of fear and not love. you claim if it wasnt for the doctrine of eternal torment you would go to boozing and fornicating, so what is your motivation? i see its not love for Christ.. how sad. i wouldnt get happy going to 'the nearest bar' thats misery.
remember: perfect love casts out all fear!!

You DO speak a lot of truth.

 

[valiant]

you think you are disproving my point but what you are actually doing is showing you serve out of fear and not love. you claim if it wasnt for the doctrine of eternal torment you would go to boozing and fornicating, so what is your motivation? i see its not love for Christ.. how sad. i wouldnt get happy going to 'the nearest bar' thats misery.
remember: perfect love casts out all fear!!

But the Scripture and Jesus make abundantly clear that many are without hope and will be lost.