Your "lady lurching and staggering" is not an example of a Jesus-style "ZAP" miracle. I have explained that to you repeatedly and at this point it is nothing less than dishonesty for you to feign "indignation" that I shot down your non-"Jesus-style" alleged "miracle".
I Corinthians 12 mentions gifts of healing and also working of miracles. God heals fast and God heals slow. This woman's illness was well documented. She had a brain injury and was in a wheelchair for decades. She got out after the man prayed for her, was able to walk, though not perfectly at first, but over a relatively short period of time, she could walk well. You can look up videos of her before and after. It is a documented healing.
You wouldn't even have to "research" anything if there were still ongoing apostle-style and Jesus-style miracles. There would be uproar throughout the world, at this point, 2000 years in. There would be world famous 'celebrity' healers that everyone knew of...and who would perform staggeringly spectacular healings and resurrections just as they did in those early days.
What I am saying is this:
1. The Bible teaches the Spirit gives the gifts of healing and the working of miracles and other gifts as He wills.
2. The Bible is true.
3. Miracles do occur.
Your position is that they don't occur. They occur at times in different locations, and there is evidence for it.
And no, if there were miracles occuring, the newspaper people would not be all over it reporting it. I saw a video from a man who said a man he prayed for was raised from the dead in a soup kitchen. I've probably given enough information for anyone who wants to look him up on YouTube. He said he called a reporter about it. The reporter refused to cover it. The story would be rejected. He might face trouble in his career over it. Occasionally, the secular news reports on such a thing, as they did with Delia Knox when she went to her childhood home to visit her parents and walked up the stairs to meet them.
My experience in this thread is that you are utterly uninformed about the entire topic of "wolves in sheep's clothing"...and you tipped your hand when you tried to condescendingly lecture me and made the unintentionally hilarious remark that "runic is the name for alphabets". You don't have the foggiest idea what you're talking about. But...you want to turn tables because you're getting frustrated about the actual topic at hand. The malice is apparent.
Runes (Proto-Norse: [FONT="]ᚱᚢᚾᛟ[/FONT] (runo), Old Norse: rún) are the letters in a set of related alphabets known as runic alphabets, which were used to write various Germanic languages before the adoption of the Latin alphabet and for specialised purposes thereafter.
You say 'the malice is apparent.' I notice you'll take a lot of comments I intend as factual and neutral as attacks, or did in a previous conversation. I will admit it is difficult to dialogue with you with your constant accusations and mocking.
Your position, by the way, is completely unbiblical and counter-biblical. According to the Bible, there ARE hidden wolves...they ARE spectacularly deceptive...and they DO make an unprecedentedly huge appearance in the last days. If you don't like some of the people I have on my suspects list...howzabout YOU come up with some suspects?
If wolves are incredibly deceptive, why would you think the way to find them is to look for clues like psuedo-occultic symbols in the background. That doesn't sound incredibly deceptive. That sounds like the bad guy off a 30 minute TV drama for kids who can't resist the urge to tell people his evil plan while he has the hero tied up.
God made eyes. Why would the Devil own that shape? Some people seem to think the Devil owns shapes like triangles arranged a certain way. The earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof. How can we say the Devil owns some shape.
That's a dishonest dodge. I didn't claim we WERE discussing mythical beasts.
Where is the fear of God in that We all will give account for idle word on the day of judgment. Before you accuse someone of being dishonest, you should consider whether it is sinful to do so. The Bible teaches that slander is a sin. I honestly don't see a way a sane, reasonable individual could interpret my comments about unicorns as 'dishonest.'
That is such a ridiculous statement as to be intentionally dishonest.
You need to get your head out of the sand. If you are skeptical, be skeptical, but don't rail about miracles, especially if you haven't done the very easy job of looking at several of them. Automatically dismissing them as fakes without examining the evidence and considering it isn't an appropriate response, either.
The Bible teaches the Spirit gives individuals to do miracles. God is also sovereign and He can do miracles any time He wants. You have no right to tell Him not to, and You have no right to say that God does not do the types of things that the Bible teaches He does.
You twist stuff. We are all supposed to be 'ready to give an answer for the hope...
Wait a minute - that's YOUR twist - LOL! This is a very simple scripture, with a very simply message and a very simply application
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
I quoted a phrase from the verse and you accuse me of twisting. In Romans 8, Paul says,
[FONT="]22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerlyfor our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have?[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.[/FONT]
(NIV)
We hope for something we don't see yet. We are waiting for Christ's return and the resurrection. You want me to go look for miracles and look up miracles on YouTube. I don't believe for a second if I show you a genuine miracle that you will accept it, not with your current attitude. I know what to expect. Accusations toward me and the individuals in the video. At least if you looked it up yourself, you probably won't be hurling accusations my way. I'm not obligated to do your resarch for you.
There are other verses, but I have shown you a passage of why I take references to 'hope' to refer to (a) future event(s) we have not seen yet, in particular the resurrection. Paul referred to the hope of the resurrection from the dead. We don't see what we hope for. My mind goes to those scriptures when I hear Peter's words about 'hope', so no, I do not believe I am obligated to go look up YouTube videos to sorth through and find genuine miracles from God for you to mock and despise.
I have pointed out specific things that you have written on this forum and your blog. I will agree with the rebuke part. I have rebuked you on a number of occasions.
You are twisting my words. Satan is the accuser of the brethren. You do not need to join him in his job.
Is that your honest testimony about yourself?
I wouldn't have expected you to get in fistfights every week, but if you go around accusing people of lying and dishonesty as readily as you do on this forum, I would expect you to have had experiences where you either got cussed out or possibly got into a fight in the past. A lot of people are less behaved when they are behind a computer screen.
Jesus refused to give one group a sign other than the sign of the prophet Jonah, which spoke of His resurrection. Do you think He would have done miracles for someone who mocked miracles? Not everyone saw Jesus' miracles. Herod wanted to see one. He did not do a miracle for Herod.
Now, with all the billions of cameras and YouTube, there are over two million hits for 'miracles in Jesus' name' for you to comb through. I don't assume all hits are genuine miracles. But it is foolish to claim there is no evidence without looking at them. It is certainly foolish for someone to claim to be a Christian and claim to believe a book that says that the Spirit gives the gifts of healing and the gift of the working of miracles to individuals in the body of Christ and reject all the miracles as fake without examining them.
Proverbs 18:13
He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.
I live outside of the US in the 10/40, and I think there is a possibility that I could let some information slip about some ministry going on that I could potentially encounter that might be a bit sensitive, so for that and other reasons I try to stay anonymous. I also don't want you bad mouthing or harrassing people I know.
I posted some evidence for a gradual healing and you called the man who did it names. If I post links to miracles, based on your track record, it seems likely that you will accuse those who pray for the sick and do miracles, possibly accuse those who were healed of being sick, nit pick and not be thankful if a healing didn't happen the way you thought it should, in addition to all the accusations you might level at me. Oh yeah, and mock. Can you honestly disagree with that?
I could probably think of some videos I might show someone who had a different world view and attitude if we got onto this topic.
I don't know. I thought you said before you'd never really done discussion forums before, but I might be confusing you with another poster. That was months ago. But you've got your own blog for casting suspicion on people of being into the occult for such things has holding their arms out at the wrong angle, standing on a chair, having a picture of an arch-shaped bridge in the background, etc. So maybe. I haven't thought that much about your Internet habits.
Trying to give me at least a crack at producing something? Do you realize how that sounds? It kind of sounds like you think you are so important, that you are honoring people by giving them a chance of convincing you of something. Maybe you don't mean it that way, but it doesn't come off very well. The video I showed you was a good one because of the documentation of her illness and her recovery after she was ministered to with the laying on of hands. There is a lot of before and after footage of this woman. It wasn't an instant miracle, but there is good evidence that she was healed. I don't know her or people who know her. I've just seen videos.
If you want more YouTube videos, you can come through the over 2 million videos by searching for 'miracles in Jesus name'. Here is the link for you.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=miracles+in+Jesus+name
I don't vouch for all the videos.
The issue here is rejecting the scripture, in this case, I Corinthians 12, which lists both 'working of miracles' and 'gifts of healing.' There is no reason to think that all healing must be instant. We don't know that Hezekiah's healing in the account of the shadow of the sun moving was instant. The lepers were healed on the way to the priests.
If you mock the healing of a woman who hadn't walked in 22 years due to a brain injury, who could walk after the laying on of hands in Jesus' name, would you call a man a fraud if you saw him do this?
Mark 8:24
[FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]23 And he took the blind man by the hand and led him out of the village, and when he had spit on his eyes and laid his hands on him, he asked him, “Do you see anything?”[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]24 And he looked up and said, “I see people, but they look like trees, walking.”[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]25 Then Jesus laid his hands on his eyes again; and he opened his eyes, his sight was restored, and he saw everything clearly.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]26 And he sent him to his home, saying, “Do not even enter the village.”[/FONT]
(ESV)
Look at that. Spitting on a man's eyes, laying hands hands on him. He apparently didn't see perfectly the first time. Laying hands on him again.
Is the right attitude reviling Jesus that the healing wasn't instant, or glorifying God for the healing?
How many people in wheelchairs have you laid hands on who weren't able to walk before, but were able to walk perfectly afterward. If you haven't done that and seen the people involved walk perfectly afterward, you shouldn't criticize those involved in this situation. If you were one of the 12 disciples, would you have lambasted Peter for sinking after he walked on water, when you stayed in the boat?
You need to get your head out of the proverbial sand. That doesn't line up with surveys either. I don't know if the criteria for 'miracles' is high for this survey of doctors, but the results are enough to refute your assumptions https://jamesbishopblog.com/2015/12...seen-medical-miracles-74-believe-in-miracles/. I haven't gotten around to reading Bible commentator and seminary professor Craig Keener's 1200+ page book 'Miracles', but I really suspect you haven't. I am not the one arguing that miracles do not exist.
From a Bible believer's perspective, the burden of proof is on you to prove that the verses that teach that the Spirit gives gifts like the working of miracles and gifts of healing members of the Bible of Christ are no longer true or applicable.
Someone PMed me and told me that you posted about being in a hospital for something I mentioned in a previous post. Do you want me to mention it on the forum.
We hope for something we don't see yet. We are waiting for Christ's return and the resurrection. You want me to go look for miracles and look up miracles on YouTube. I don't believe for a second if I show you a genuine miracle that you will accept it, not with your current attitude. I know what to expect. Accusations toward me and the individuals in the video. At least if you looked it up yourself, you probably won't be hurling accusations my way. I'm not obligated to do your resarch for you.
To claim your "hope" isn't bolstered by the confirming miracles you claim to observe and participate in...is nonsensical.
So when someone like me asks you to give a reason for the hope and the attendant beliefs...all I get from you is reviling, rebuke and defamation.
I'm supposedly headed towards the "hottest hell"...I am an "accuser of the brethren"...in other words, I am literally satanic. On and on you go.
Yes, I usually have fistfights once or twice a week.
Is that your honest testimony about yourself?
I wouldn't have expected you to get in fistfights every week, but if you go around accusing people of lying and dishonesty as readily as you do on this forum, I would expect you to have had experiences where you either got cussed out or possibly got into a fight in the past. A lot of people are less behaved when they are behind a computer screen.
God never played hide-and-seek with miracles back during the days when they were happening.
Now, with all the billions of cameras and YouTube, there are over two million hits for 'miracles in Jesus' name' for you to comb through. I don't assume all hits are genuine miracles. But it is foolish to claim there is no evidence without looking at them. It is certainly foolish for someone to claim to be a Christian and claim to believe a book that says that the Spirit gives the gifts of healing and the gift of the working of miracles to individuals in the body of Christ and reject all the miracles as fake without examining them.
Proverbs 18:13
He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.
If you pulled aside a believer back then and asked him about evidence of miracles, he wouldn't say "shhhh - I'll slip you a secret note after the Sunday service". Your "PM" proposal is nonsense and, in fact, yet more evidence of non-straightforwardness. The behavior of 'snipe hunting' pranksters.
Just put the evidence out in the open if there IS any evidence. And, of course, there isn't.
I could probably think of some videos I might show someone who had a different world view and attitude if we got onto this topic.
I haven't "bothered" to look any of this up? Do I seem like a guy who doesn't spend much time on the Internet - LOL? Pure baloney. Intentional baloney.
With this YouTube thing...I'm just trying to at least give you a crack at producing something even REMOTELY interesting or credible...but the best you offered was an abysmal failure (the lurching lady) as far as Jesus-style miracles go. And now you're blaming me for your disastrous YouTube offering! Wow.
If you want more YouTube videos, you can come through the over 2 million videos by searching for 'miracles in Jesus name'. Here is the link for you.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=miracles+in+Jesus+name
I don't vouch for all the videos.
Fella, read this very slowly and carefully: There is...nothing to "reject". I'm not rejecting anything. Good grief - this is both hilarious and sad.
If you mock the healing of a woman who hadn't walked in 22 years due to a brain injury, who could walk after the laying on of hands in Jesus' name, would you call a man a fraud if you saw him do this?
Mark 8:24
[FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]23 And he took the blind man by the hand and led him out of the village, and when he had spit on his eyes and laid his hands on him, he asked him, “Do you see anything?”[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]24 And he looked up and said, “I see people, but they look like trees, walking.”[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]25 Then Jesus laid his hands on his eyes again; and he opened his eyes, his sight was restored, and he saw everything clearly.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]26 And he sent him to his home, saying, “Do not even enter the village.”[/FONT]
(ESV)
Look at that. Spitting on a man's eyes, laying hands hands on him. He apparently didn't see perfectly the first time. Laying hands on him again.
Is the right attitude reviling Jesus that the healing wasn't instant, or glorifying God for the healing?
How many people in wheelchairs have you laid hands on who weren't able to walk before, but were able to walk perfectly afterward. If you haven't done that and seen the people involved walk perfectly afterward, you shouldn't criticize those involved in this situation. If you were one of the 12 disciples, would you have lambasted Peter for sinking after he walked on water, when you stayed in the boat?
I'm not "limiting" anything. It's just that nothing is happening. The world is devoid of these miracles...as far as my billions of eyeballs can see.
From a Bible believer's perspective, the burden of proof is on you to prove that the verses that teach that the Spirit gives gifts like the working of miracles and gifts of healing members of the Bible of Christ are no longer true or applicable.
I have not the foggiest idea what you're talking about. I have no "condition". Who in the world would have PM'd you about my "condition"?