Yahweh and Yeshua: A Comparison and Contrast

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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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#81
So we must ask ourselves a few things; first off, did God "change His mind" and "go soft" with the new covenant? I do not think so. Because the Scripture states that "Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever."

So then are we dealing with two different persons of the Trinity with two different personalities? I do not believe They have different personalities, because Jesus said "I and the Father are One", "If you have seen Me then you have seen the Father". This seems fairly straightforward to me. Jesus seems to be showing us the true nature of the Father through Himself. And let's not forget what He said of the father of the Pharisees…
Yahshua does as YHWH says and the “trinity” is not found in true Scripture, but rather an addition 300 years later;

Proper and original text from the 1[SUP]st [/SUP]century:

1 John/Yahanan 5:7-8, "For there are three which testify: The Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three are of one accord."

Altered text from the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] century:

1 John/Yahanan 5:7-8, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."

1 John 5:7-8, “Because there are three who bear witness: the Spirit, and the water, and the blood. And the three are in agreement."

Comma Johanneum refers to a short clause in John 5:7-8 in the Latin Vulgate text which was transmitted since the Early Middle Ages. It was later included in the Textus Receptus Greek in support of trinity doctrine. The comma does not appear in the older Greek text. The ‘comma’ is displayed below in italics.

v.7 Because there are three who bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and these three are one.

v.8 And there are three that bear witness in earth the Spirit, and the water, and the blood. And the three are in agreement.

1 John 5:7 Parallel Verses

New International Version
For there are three that testify:

New Living Translation
So we have these three witnesses

English Standard Version
For there are three that testify:

New American Standard Bible
For there are three that testify:

King James Bible
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For there are three that testify:

International Standard Version
For there are three witnesses —

NET Bible
For there are three that testify,

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And The Spirit testifies because The Spirit is the truth.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
There are three witnesses:

Jubilee Bible 2000
For there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

King James 2000 Bible
For there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and these three are one.

American King James Version
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

American Standard Version
And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.

Darby Bible Translation
For they that bear witness are three:

English Revised Version
And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.

Webster's Bible Translation
For there are three that bear testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one.

Weymouth New Testament
For there are three that give testimony, the Spirit, the water, and the blood;

World English Bible
For there are three who testify:

Young's Literal Translation
because three are who are testifying in the heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these, the three, are one;

Verses 5:7-8 -- In the King James Version and later renditions of the Latin Vulgate, the received Greek and Latin texts include the words: “ ...In heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth... ”. This text concerning the heavenly witness is not contained in any authentic Greek manuscript written earlier than the Fifteenth Century of this current era. It does not appear in any of the oldest Greek manuscripts; neither does it even appear in the earliest Latin translations. This text is not cited by any of the Greek or early Latin writers, even when the subject they wrote of would naturally have led them to appeal to its authority. The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson, Page 803, The Jerusalem Bible, New Testament, Page 419. Other scholars and researchers have frankly admitted that these words are a deliberate forgery that was never a part of the original inspired Holy Scriptures.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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0
#82
And let's not forget what He said of the father of the Pharisees…
satan was their father not YHWH;

Zechariah 7:11-13, "But they refused to pay any attention--they turned a stubborn shoulder, and they stopped their ears so they would not be able to hear. Yes, they made their hearts like a hard adamant stone, in order not to hear the Law and the words, which YHWH of hosts had sent by His Spirit through the former prophets. Therefore, great wrath came from YHWH of hosts. Just as I called, and they would not hear, so they called, and I would not hear, says YHWH of hosts!"

John 8:18-19, “I am One who witnesses concerning Myself, and the Father who sent Me witnesses concerning Me. herefore they said to Him, “Where is Your Father?” יהושע answered, “You know neither Me nor My Father. If you knew Me, you would have known My Father also.”

Deuteronomy 32:5, “A twisted and crooked generation has corrupted itself, Their blemish, they are not His children."

Jeremiah 18:15, “But My people have forgotten Me, they have burned incense to what is false, and they have stumbled from their ways, from the ancient paths, to walk in bypaths and not on a highway.”

Revelation 2:9,"“I know your works, and pressure, and poverty – yet you are rich – and the blasphemy of those who say they are Yehuḏim and are not, but are a congregation of Satan.”

Isaiah 30:9-13, “That this rebellious people, lying children, are children who will not hear; (listen to), the Law of YHWH*; Who say to the seers; Do not see! Who say to the prophets; Do not prophesy right things to us, speak smooth things to us, prophesy deceits; Get out of the way, turn away from the path, cause the Holy One of Israyl to cease from our presence! Therefore, this is what the Holy One of Israyl says: Because you despise this word (*the Law), and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon. Therefore, this iniquity will be to you like a breach; a weakened wall ready to fall a bulge of a high wall which breaks suddenly, in an instant.”
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#83
Keep in mind, when I speculate on these things, I come to these speculations not from reading outside sources or materials, but just from reading the Word itself. I look at everything I've mentioned above, see how it does/doesn't fit in with a traditional literal interpretation of much of the OT, and it seems to be as plain as day.


No wonder the Pharisees hated Him. He wasn't just a threat to them, they did not believe He was who He said He was because He didn't fit the picture of the OT God to them.

Again they did not follow YHWH and Yahshua knew this that is why He spoke so harshly to them and yet “ate and drank with sinners”



Jeremiah 2:8, "The priests did not ask; Where is YHWH? Those who deal with the Law did not know Me! The pastors also transgressed against Me, and the prophets prophesied in the name of Baal, and walked after things of worthlessness"


Matthew 23:31-35, “Thus you bear witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who did murder the prophets and you fill up the measure of your fathers! Serpents, brood of adders! How would you escape the judgment of GĕHinnom? Because of this, see, I send you prophets, and wise men, and scholars of Scripture.f Some of them you shall kill and impale, and some of them you shall flog in your congregations and persecute from city to city, so that on you should come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Heḇel to the blood of Zeḵaryah, son of Bereḵyah, whom you murdered between the Dwelling Place and the slaughter-place.”


John 8:33-47, "”They answered Him, “We are the seed of Aḇraham, and have been servants to no one at any time. How do you say, ‘You shall become free’? יהושע answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone doing sin is a servant of sin. And the servant does not stay in the house forever – a son stays forever. If, then, the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed. I know that you are the seed of Aḇraham, but you seek to kill Me, because My Word has no place in you. I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have heard from your father. They answered and said to Him, “Aḇraham is our father.” יהושע said to them, “If you were Aḇraham’s children, you would do the works of Aḇraham. But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has spoken to you the truth which I heard from YHWH. Aḇraham did not do this. You do the works of your father.” Then they said to Him, “We were not born of whoring, we have one Father: YHWH. יהושע said to them, “If YHWH were your Father, you would love Me, for I came forth from YHWH, and am here. For I have not come of Myself, but He sent Me. Why do you not know what I say? Because you are unable to hear My Word. You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you wish to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has not stood in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks of his own, for he is a liar and the father of it. And because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me. Who of you proves Me wrong concerning sin? And if I speak the truth, why do you not believe Me?"8:47, "“He who is of YHWH hears the Words of YHWH, therefore you do not hear because you are not of YHWH.”


And what's even more incredible is, if I do happen to be onto something with this interpretation of the OT, God STILL used it to prophesy the coming of Jesus. It just makes me think what a truly incredible God we serve!

We need to pray and study in sincerity my brother, if we believe we will seek truth.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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#84
The name 'Yahweh' gives it away. The name was to distinguish their national god from other gods. The One true God does not need a name, he is simply God.
YHWH Creator of the heavens and earth gave His name, Israylites did not name Him, and you have no clue of what you talk about, as the word "god" is not found a single timew in the old or new testament...

Isayah 42:8, "I am YHWH, that is MY NAME; and My glory I will not give to another, nor My praise to graven images."


Exodus 34:5-7, "Then YHWH descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the Name of YHWH. YHWH passed in front of him, and proclaimed: YHWH, YHWH Almighty, merciful and compassionate, longsuffering, and abounding in righteousness and truth. Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity, and transgression, and sin; but by no means leaving unpunished those who are guilty; Who visits the sin of the fathers upon the children and the children's children, to the third and fourth generation."


Psalm 116:13, "We will take the cup of salvation, and we will call upon Your Name, O YHWH."


Exodus 23:13, "In all things I have said to you, be careful to do them, and make no mention of the name of "gods" (elohim), neither let it be heard from your mouth."





The Old Testament is all about Eretz Yisrael, which for them is the whole earth, when in fact it is only a small part of the world. When they say in Exodus 10:5 a plague of Locusts "covered the face of the whole earth." Quite clearly the locusts did not cover the whole globe, they only covered the land of Egypt and then probably not all of it.

In Numbers 22:5,11 we read that after the Israelites were delivered from Egypt and settled in Canaan they "Covered the face of the earth." This is simply their way of saying they occupied the land in which they were dwelling.

When Cain went to the Land of Nod the Bible says "Behold thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth." (Gen 4:14) The earth for him was the place where he lived.

When the devil tempted Jesus he took him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. The kingdoms of the world were what they could see i.e. local. (Matthew 4:8)

The same idiom is used to describe the Israelite conquest of Canaan,
Deut 2:25 This day I will begin to put the dread and fear of you on the peoples who are under the whole heaven, who shall hear the report of you and shall tremble and be in anguish because of you.

Incas and Inuit weren't trembling in anguish, it was the people in the region, Canaanites Moabites and Edomites.

When the Bible talks about the whole land or the face of the earth, it means the land or the earth of Israel and not the whole globe. Noah did not go collecting animals from all seven continents, they would have been local to him. They are a nationalistic people.

---------------------------------

THEY are God's chosen people. (God does not have favourites.)
Their God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. (What about other nations?)
About their God they write, "Who is like unto thee, O LORD, among the gods? (Exo 15:11 KJV) Yahweh is one god of many gods.

They are an insular people:
When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou; And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them: Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly. But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire. For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
(Deu 7:1-6 KJV)


Their god is the devil. They are not of God:
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
(Joh 8:44-47 KJV)
I am not sure of you are implying .... they did not follow YHWH, have you never read the word... they continually went astray...

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Zechariah 7:11-13, "But they refused to pay any attention--they turned a stubborn shoulder, and they stopped their ears so they would not be able to hear. Yes, they made their hearts like a hard adamant stone, in order not to hear the Law and the words, which YHWH of hosts had sent by His Spirit through the former prophets. Therefore, great wrath came from YHWH of hosts. Just as I called, and they would not hear, so they called, and I would not hear, says YHWH of hosts!"[/FONT]


John 8:18-19, “I am One who witnesses concerning Myself, and the Father who sent Me witnesses concerning Me. herefore they said to Him, “Where is Your Father?” יהושע answered, “You know neither Me nor My Father. If you knew Me, you would have known My Father also.”


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Deuteronomy 32:5, “A twisted and crooked generation has corrupted itself, Their blemish, they are not His children."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Jeremiah 18:15, “But My people have forgotten Me, they have burned incense to what is false, and they have stumbled from their ways, from the ancient paths, to walk in bypaths and not on a highway.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 2:9,"“I know your works, and pressure, and poverty – yet you are rich – and the blasphemy of those who say they are Yehuḏim and are not, but are a congregation of Satan.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isaiah 30:9-13, “That this rebellious people, lying children, are children who will not hear; (listen to), the Law of YHWH*; Who say to the seers; Do not see! Who say to the prophets; Do not prophesy right things to us, speak smooth things to us, prophesy deceits; Get out of the way, turn away from the path, cause the Holy One of Israyl to cease from our presence! Therefore, this is what the Holy One of Israyl says: Because you despise this word (*the Law), and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon. Therefore, this iniquity will be to you like a breach; a weakened wall ready to fall a bulge of a high wall which breaks suddenly, in an instant.”[/FONT]



you know I think you need to read the word more, find out a little about the original language and pray.

Isaiah 45:5-6, “I am יהוה, and there is none else – there is no Strength besides Me. I gird you, though you have not known Me, so that they know from the rising of the sun to its setting that there is none but Me. I am יהוה, and there is none else.”


Isaiah 45:18, "For thus said יהוה, Creator of the heavens, He is Mighty, Sculpter of earth and its Maker, He established it, He did not create it to be empty, He formed it to be inhabited: “I am יהוה, and there is none else."


Isaiah 45:21-22, “Declare and bring near, let them even take counsel together. Who has announced this from of old? Who has declared it from that time? Is it not I, יהוה? And there is no mighty one besides Me, a righteous Power and Savior, there is none besides Me. Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth! For I am Strength, and there is none else.”


Isaiah 46:9-11, "Remember the former things of old, for I am YHWH, and there is none else; I am YHWH, and there is none like Me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times those things which are not yet done, saying; My counsel will stand, and I will fulfill all My plan; Calling an eagle from the east, the one who executes My plan from a far country. Yes, I have spoken, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed, I will also do it."
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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#85
A prophecy about the Messiah, YHWH's MEssiah, without YHWH there is no Messiah...

when you read most english translations you get "the Lord said to my Lord" yet look closely the 1st "Lord" is oin all caps "LORD" the second "Lord" only th L is in caps "Lord" Why?

because


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 110 [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"1 YHWH (#3068) says to my Lord (#113), "Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool for your feet."[/FONT]


Without YHWH ther is no Yahshua.

The Messiahs name means YHWH's Salvation.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 110:1, "[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]said to my Master, “Sit at My right hand, Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.”"2, "[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]sends Your mighty sceptre out of Tsiyon. Rule in the midst of Your enemies!"3, "Your people volunteer in the day of Your might, In the splendours of set-apartness! From the womb, from the morning, You have the dew of Your youth!"4, "[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]has sworn and does not relent, “You are a priest forever According to the order of Malkitseḏeq.”"5, "[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]at Your right hand Shall smite sovereigns in the day of His wrath."6, "He judges among the nations, He shall fill the nations with dead bodies, He shall crush the Head over the mighty earth!"7, "He drinks of the stream by the wayside, Therefore He does lift up the head!"[/FONT]




[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 110:1 [/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New International Version[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The LORD says to my lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New Living Translation[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit in the place of honor at my right hand until I humble your enemies, making them a footstool under your feet."[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]English Standard Version[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The LORD says to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New American Standard Bible[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at My right hand Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet."[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]King James Bible[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Holman Christian Standard Bible[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]This is the declaration of the LORD to my Lord:" Sit at My right hand until I make Your enemies Your footstool."[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]International Standard Version[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]A declaration from the LORD to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool."[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 110 [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"1 YHWH (#3068) says to my Lord (#113), "Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool for your feet."[/FONT]
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
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#86
YHWH Creator of the heavens and earth gave His name, Israylites did not name Him, and you have no clue of what you talk about, as the word "god" is not found a single timew in the old or new testament...

Isayah 42:8, "I am YHWH, that is MY NAME; and My glory I will not give to another, nor My praise to graven images."
You say the word 'god' is not found a single time in the Bible. You are wrong. Psalm 82 for example, tells us each judge is a god. Moreover they ruled very, very badly, contrary to what you say elsewhere to another poster.

Further, if the word God does not exist in the Bible, then nowhere can you show YHWH saying he is God.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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#87
You say the word 'god' is not found a single time in the Bible. You are wrong. Psalm 82 for example, tells us each judge is a god. Moreover they ruled very, very badly, contrary to what you say elsewhere to another poster.

Further, if the word God does not exist in the Bible, then nowhere can you show YHWH saying he is God.
No the word "God" is not found a single time in the Scriptures OT or NT. The word translated into God is El, Eloah, Elohim, Kyrios, and Theos. With all due respect and sincerity, and I mean it, not in a scolding manner, but you are taking english translations and then using them to twist what is in the original manuscripts into a percieved "lie" I can not on the internet show you everything, you must read and pray because you have misunderstanding.

Psalms 82:1-8, "82:1, "Elohim stands in the congregation of Ěl; He judges in the midst of the elohim."82:2, "How long would you judge perversely, And show partiality to the wrong? Selah."82:3, "Give right-ruling to the poor and fatherless, Do right to the afflicted and needy."82:4, "Rescue the poor and needy; Deliver them from the hand of the wrong."82:5, "They do not know, nor do they understand, They walk about in darkness. All the foundations of the earth are shaken."82:6, "I, I said, “You are elohim, And all of you are sons of the Most High."82:7, "“But as men you die, And fall as one of the heads.”"82:8, "Arise, O Elohim, judge the earth, For You shall possess all the nations."

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Job 38:4-7, “Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if you have understanding. Who set its measurements, if you know? Or who stretched the line upon it? Upon what were its foundations sunk? Or who laid its corner-stone, when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of Elohim shouted for joy?”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isaiah 45:18, "For thus said [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], Creator of the heavens, He is Mighty, Sculpter of earth and its Maker, He established it, He did not create it to be empty, He formed it to be inhabited: “I am [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif], and there is none else."[/FONT][/FONT]
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#88
No the word "God" is not found a single time in the Scriptures OT or NT. The word translated into God is El, Eloah, Elohim, Kyrios, and Theos. With all due respect and sincerity, and I mean it, not in a scolding manner, but you are taking english translations and then using them to twist what is in the original manuscripts into a percieved "lie" I can not on the internet show you everything, you must read and pray because you have misunderstanding.

Psalms 82:1-8, "82:1, "Elohim stands in the congregation of Ěl; He judges in the midst of the elohim."82:2, "How long would you judge perversely, And show partiality to the wrong? Selah."82:3, "Give right-ruling to the poor and fatherless, Do right to the afflicted and needy."82:4, "Rescue the poor and needy; Deliver them from the hand of the wrong."82:5, "They do not know, nor do they understand, They walk about in darkness. All the foundations of the earth are shaken."82:6, "I, I said, “You are elohim, And all of you are sons of the Most High."82:7, "“But as men you die, And fall as one of the heads.”"82:8, "Arise, O Elohim, judge the earth, For You shall possess all the nations."

Job 38:4-7, “Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if you have understanding. Who set its measurements, if you know? Or who stretched the line upon it? Upon what were its foundations sunk? Or who laid its corner-stone, when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of Elohim shouted for joy?”


Isaiah 45:18, "For thus said יהוה, Creator of the heavens, He is Mighty, Sculpter of earth and its Maker, He established it, He did not create it to be empty, He formed it to be inhabited: “I am יהוה, and there is none else."
A pantheon of gods.

What has happened to Yahweh?

Where has Yahweh gone?
 
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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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#89
A pantheon of gods.

What has happened to Yahweh?

Where has Yahweh gone?
I think I should rather ask what has happened to your mind and where has your sanity gone. If you are truly a seeker of the Creator of the heavens and earth it is shocking that you have these views. You need to pray and study what is written is you truly seek Him. If you are sincere, I honestly would like to study with you to show you what is written, if you aer not sincere then I would not like to.

Psalms 146:5-6, “Blessed is he who has the Ěl of Ya‛aqoḇ for his help, Whose expectancy is in יהוה his Elohim, Maker of the heavens and earth, The sea and all that is in them, Who is guarding truth forever.”
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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#90
Isaiah 66:1-2, “Thus said יהוה, “The heavens are My throne, and the earth is My footstool. Where is this house that you build for Me? And where is this place of My rest? And all these My hand has made, and all these that exist,” declares יהוה. “Yet to such a one I look: on him who is poor and bruised of spirit, and who trembles at My Word.”
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#91
Here, this is a starting point, study this verse/passage, here is even the original languade so you can see who "the LORD" is;

Jeremiah 10:10-13, “But יהוה (#H3068 – YHWH) is truly Elohim. He is the living Elohim and the everlasting Sovereign. At His wrath the earth shakes, and nations are unable to stand His displeasure. Say to them this, “The elah that did not make the heavens and the earth shall perish from the earth and from under these heavens. He has made the earth by His power, He has established the world by His wisdom, and has stretched out the heavens by His understanding. When He makes His voice heard, there is a roaring of waters in the heavens. And He makes vapors rise from the ends of the earth. The lightnings for rain He has made, and brings wind from His treasuries.”

Jeremiah 10:10

NIV
But the LORD (#H3068 – YHWH) is the true God; he is the living God, the eternal King. When he is angry, the earth trembles; the nations cannot endure his wrath.

NLT
But the LORD (#H3068 – YHWH) is the only true God. He is the living God and the everlasting King! The whole earth trembles at his anger. The nations cannot stand up to his wrath.
ESV
But the LORD (#H3068 – YHWH) is the true God; he is the living God and the everlasting King. At his wrath the earth quakes, and the nations cannot endure his indignation.

NASB
But the LORD (#H3068 – YHWH) is the true God; He is the living God and the everlasting King. At His wrath the earth quakes, And the nations cannot endure His indignation.

KJV
But the LORD (#H3068 – YHWH) is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.

[TABLE="width: 203"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 203"] Jeremiah 10:10
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[TABLE="width: 669"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 669"] Text Analysis
[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 100%"] [TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 17%"] Str[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] Translit[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] Hebrew[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"] English[/TD]
[TD="width: 18%"] Morph[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 17%"] 3068 [e]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] Yah-weh[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] וַֽיהוָ֤ה
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"] But the LORD[/TD]
[TD="width: 18%"] Noun[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 17%"] 430 [e][/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] ĕ-lō-hîm[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] אֱלֹהִים֙[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"] God[/TD]
[TD="width: 18%"] Noun[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 17%"] 571 [e][/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] ĕ-meṯ,[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] אֱמֶ֔ת[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"] [is] the true[/TD]
[TD="width: 18%"] Noun[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 17%"] 1931 [e][/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] hū-[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] הֽוּא־[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"] he[/TD]
[TD="width: 18%"] Pro[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 17%"] 430 [e][/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] ĕ-lō-hîm[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] אֱלֹהִ֥ים[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"] the God[/TD]
[TD="width: 18%"] Noun[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 17%"] 2416 [e][/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] ḥay-yîm[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] חַיִּ֖ים[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"] [is] living[/TD]
[TD="width: 18%"] Adj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 17%"] 4428 [e][/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] ū-me-leḵ[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] וּמֶ֣לֶךְ[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"] and king[/TD]
[TD="width: 18%"] Noun[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 17%"] 5769 [e][/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] ō-w-lām;[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] עוֹלָ֑ם[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"] an everlasting[/TD]
[TD="width: 18%"] Noun[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 17%"] 7110 [e][/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] miq-qiṣ-pōw[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] מִקִּצְפּוֹ֙[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"] At His wrath[/TD]
[TD="width: 18%"] Noun[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 17%"] 7493 [e][/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] tir-‘aš[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] תִּרְעַ֣שׁ[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"] shall tremble[/TD]
[TD="width: 18%"] Verb[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 17%"] 776 [e][/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] hā-’ā-reṣ,[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] הָאָ֔רֶץ[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"] the earth[/TD]
[TD="width: 18%"] Noun[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 17%"] 3808 [e][/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] wə-lō-[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] וְלֹֽא־[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"] and not[/TD]
[TD="width: 18%"] Adv[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 17%"] 3557 [e][/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] yā-ḵi-lū[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] יָכִ֥לוּ[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"] do be able to abide[/TD]
[TD="width: 18%"] Verb[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 17%"] 1471 [e][/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] ḡō-w-yim[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] גוֹיִ֖ם[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"] the nations[/TD]
[TD="width: 18%"] Noun[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 17%"] 2195 [e][/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] za‘-mōw.[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] זַעְמֽוֹ׃[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"] his indignation[/TD]
[TD="width: 18%"] Noun[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 17%"][/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] s[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] ס[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"] - [/TD]
[TD="width: 18%"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[/TD]
[/TR]
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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#92
Psalm 100:3, "Know that יהוה, He is Elohim; He has made us, and we are His – His people and the sheep of His pasture."

Psalm 100:3

New International Version
Know that the LORD (#H3068 – YHWH) is God. It is he who made us, and we are his; we are his people, the sheep of his pasture.

New Living Translation
Acknowledge that the LORD (#H3068 – YHWH) is God! He made us, and we are his. We are his people, the sheep of his pasture.

English Standard Version
Know that the LORD (#H3068 – YHWH), he is God! It is he who made us, and we are his; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

New American Standard Bible
Know that the LORD (#H3068 – YHWH) Himself is God; It is He who has made us, and not we ourselves; We are His people and the sheep of His pasture.

King James Bible
Know ye that the LORD (#H3068 – YHWH) he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.


[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD] Psalm 100:3


[/TD]
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[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD] Text Analysis
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD] [TABLE]
[TR]
[TD] Str
[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] Translit
[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] Hebrew
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"] English
[/TD]
[TD="width: 18%"] Morph
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 17%"] 3045 [e]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] də-‘ū,
[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] דְּע֗וּ
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"] Know
[/TD]
[TD="width: 18%"] Verb
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 17%"] 3588 [e]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] kî-
[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] כִּֽי־
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"] that
[/TD]
[TD="width: 18%"] Conj
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 17%"] 3068 [e]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] Yah-weh
[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] יְהוָה֮
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"] the LORD
[/TD]
[TD="width: 18%"] Noun
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 17%"] 1931 [e]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] ה֤וּא
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"] he
[/TD]
[TD="width: 18%"] Pro
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 17%"] 430 [e]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] ĕ-lō-hîm
[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] אֱלֹ֫הִ֥ים
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"] [is] God
[/TD]
[TD="width: 18%"] Noun
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 17%"] 1931 [e]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] hū-
[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] הֽוּא־
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"] he
[/TD]
[TD="width: 18%"] Pro
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 17%"] 6213 [e]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] ā-śā-nū
[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] עָ֭שָׂנוּ
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"] [that] has made
[/TD]
[TD="width: 18%"] Verb
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 17%"]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] [wə-lō
[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] [וְלֹא
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"] -
[/TD]
[TD="width: 18%"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 17%"]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] ḵ]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] כ]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"] us
[/TD]
[TD="width: 18%"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 17%"] 3808 [e]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] (wə-lōw
[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] (וְלֹ֣ו
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"] and not
[/TD]
[TD="width: 18%"] Adv
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 17%"]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] q)
[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] ק)
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"] -
[/TD]
[TD="width: 18%"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 17%"] 587 [e]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] ă-naḥ-nū;
[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] אֲנַ֑חְנוּ
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"] we ourselves
[/TD]
[TD="width: 18%"] Pro
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 17%"] 5971 [e]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] am-mōw,
[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] עַ֝מּ֗וֹ
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"] [we are] his people
[/TD]
[TD="width: 18%"] Noun
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 17%"] 6629 [e]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] wə-ṣōn
[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] וְצֹ֣אן
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"] and the sheep
[/TD]
[TD="width: 18%"] Noun
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 17%"] 4830 [e]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] mar-‘î-ṯōw.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"] מַרְעִיתֽוֹ׃
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"] of His pasture
[/TD]
[TD="width: 18%"] Noun
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]



[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#93
Psalm 100:3, "Know that יהוה, He is Elohim; He has made us, and we are His – His people and the sheep of His pasture."
You are doing a Dartman and posting verses out of context, neither do I read long disjointed posts and neither do you answer the points I make, you just say, "I think I should rather ask what has happened to your mind and where has your sanity gone." That is not good enough and it tells me you have lost the argument.

Regarding YHWH being the national god of the Jews, first of all they made the name up, and secondly, if you were to ask a true Jew if Yhwh was the god of the Romans or the Greeks they would say NO. There you have it. Yhwh is the Jewish national god and a god of one nation is not the true God.

The fact Moses killed thousands, proves he was far from the God of the commandments, and as Jesus said, the god of the Jews was the devil, and guess what they called him? They called his name Yahweh.

Bye.
 
Last edited:
Oct 15, 2017
133
13
0
#94
OP what you are talking about is marcionism. Do you believe that the god of the OT was a lesser creator deity? And the Father of Jesus was a different God?
How could it be when Jesus and the Apostles quoted the old testament and said things like "I serve the God of my fathers" and "the God of Isaac Abraham and Jacob".
It is the same God from beginning to end.
 
Oct 15, 2017
133
13
0
#95
Since there are more than one of you who share similar beliefs on this and the PM function is not working currently, I will ask the questions here in public so everyone else can also benefit from your responses:

1. Do you guys believe that it was God (YHWH) who created the planets and humans and its a good thing. OR is it some lesser evil deity who just trapped us here?

2. Why did Paul say he worships the "God of my fathers" which would be the OT God? And why did Jesus say "the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob"? That would also be the O.T God.

3. If PS as you said Elijah was the only true prophet, does that mean the books of Ezekiel and Isaiah are false or evil? Jesus quoted them and Isaiah 53 is a prophecy of the atonement made for us, so how can that be?

4. How do you know when the OT is describing "baal" or "devil" as God (YHWH) and when it is describing the Father of the Lord Jesus? How do you make the call?

5. How many gods are there? If YHWH is evil in the OT, and he created us, who was the serpent? A third God?

6. What books does your canon consist of? What books do you consider to be born of the Holy Spirit? If any?

7. Why did Jesus and the Apostles quote the OT so much and obey its regulations, Paul even gave a sacrifice in Acts?
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#96
Since there are more than one of you who share similar beliefs on this and the PM function is not working currently, I will ask the questions here in public so everyone else can also benefit from your responses:
Coming.

1. Do you guys believe that it was God (YHWH) who created the planets and humans and its a good thing. OR is it some lesser evil deity who just trapped us here?
There is only 1 creator God who I refer to as the I AM so as to avoid confusion.

2. Why did Paul say he worships the "God of my fathers" which would be the OT God? And why did Jesus say "the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob"? That would also be the O.T God.
Paul did worship the God of his Fathers. Many others went whoring after other gods.

3. If PS as you said Elijah was the only true prophet, does that mean the books of Ezekiel and Isaiah are false or evil? Jesus quoted them and Isaiah 53 is a prophecy of the atonement made for us, so how can that be?
Elijah was the only true prophet present. The rest were in hiding in a cave for fear of being killed. That is how evil they were. Jesus said they killed my prophets and seeing as they were the OT prophets, his deity is proven.

4. How do you know when the OT is describing "baal" or "devil" as God (YHWH) and when it is describing the Father of the Lord Jesus? How do you make the call?
We know by the content. The true God would never command us to break the commandments or to commit evil.

5. How many gods are there? If YHWH is evil in the OT, and he created us, who was the serpent? A third God?
There are only two G/gods. The true God is the I AM and the other god, sometimes spoken of as the 'god of this world' the deceiver, or the serpent goes by many names.

6. What books does your canon consist of? What books do you consider to be born of the Holy Spirit? If any?
There are 66 books in my Bible and I believe them all to be divinely inspired. However some translations are unhelpful, to say the least, and one example that stands out is the Jehovah Witness Bible.

7. Why did Jesus and the Apostles quote the OT so much and obey its regulations, Paul even gave a sacrifice in Acts?
Quoting the OT proved the truth of what they were saying and left the Pharisees without an argument.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#97
You are doing a Dartman and posting verses out of context, neither do I read long disjointed posts and neither do you answer the points I make, you just say, "I think I should rather ask what has happened to your mind and where has your sanity gone." That is not good enough and it tells me you have lost the argument.
I "lost the argument" I didnt know we were arguing and one could win or even declare themselves the winner. I thought we were reasoining and debating Scripture.

Also how is this out of context?

Jeremiah 10:10 NIV
But the LORD (#H3068 – YHWH) is the true God; he is the living God, the eternal King. When he is angry, the earth trembles; the nations cannot endure his wrath.

Because it shows you have a twisted doctrine?


A pantheon of gods.

What has happened to Yahweh?

Where has Yahweh gone?
Regarding YHWH being the national god of the Jews, first of all they made the name up, and secondly, if you were to ask a true Jew if Yhwh was the god of the Romans or the Greeks they would say NO. There you have it. Yhwh is the Jewish national god and a god of one nation is not the true God.
YHWH has beem the Mighty one for Hebrew and Gentile alike from the beginning;

Exodus 12:47-49, “All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the Passover to יהוה, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is nativeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourns among you.”



This is non-sense, 1st what is a "true Jew" is that what you decide or what He decides? Because those that call themselves Jew (as in the Jewish religion of Judaisim) do not follow YHWH;

Mark 7:7-9, "But in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commandments of men. For laying aside the Law of YHWH, you hold the tradition of men! Then He said to them: How well you reject the Law of YHWH, so that you may keep your own tradition!"

Herre is an example of their evil non-sense;

The so called "rabbis" and Pharisees interpret Scripture by something called Midrashic interpretation, which ignores language and ignores context. They say Scripture is a divine code and only the rabbis have the knowledge to decipher that divine code. Here is an ACTUAL example of Midrashic interpretation used by the rabbis:


They take Exodus 23:2, "Do not follow the crowd in doing evil. When you give testimony in a lawsuit, do not pervert justice by siding with the crowd."


After Midrashic interpretation is applied, they come out with : "follow the crowd." (After the majority must one incline - seen in above reading)


Thus even when one disagrees or knows something is wrong he must, "follow the crowd," or as the Talmud puts it in Baba Metzia 59b (above), "after the majority must one incline."


Deuteronomy 30:11-13, "For this Law which I command you this day is not hidden from you, nor is it beyond your reach. It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask; Who will ascend up into heaven for us, and bring it to us, so that we may hear it and then do it? Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask; Who will cross the sea, and bring it to us, so that we may hear it and then do it?"



After Midrashic interpretation is applied, they come out with : "‘It is not in heaven.’4 What did he mean by this? — Said R. Jeremiah: That the Torah had already been given at Mount Sinai; we pay no attention to a Heavenly Voice" (Baba Metzia 59b)

The Jews of Judaisim follow "we pay no attention to a Heavenly Voice" (Baba Metzia 59b)"

That is why the are not His children. Paul explains the m as "broken off" the "oilive tree"


Romans 11:11-36, “I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Let it not be! But by their fall deliverance has come to the gentiles, to provoke them to jealousy. And if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the gentiles, how much more their completeness! For I speak to you, the gentiles, inasmuch as I am an emissary to the gentiles, I esteem my service, if somehow I might provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. For if their casting away is the restoration to favour of the world, what is their acceptance but life from the dead? Now if the first-fruit is set-apart, the lump is also. And if the root is set-apart, so are the branches. And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, have been grafted in among them, and came to share the root and fatness of the olive tree, do not boast against the branches. And if you boast, remember: you do not bear the root, but the root bears you! You shall say then, “The branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” Good! By unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by belief. Do not be arrogant, but fear. For if Yah did not spare the natural branches, He might not spare you either. See then the kindness and sharpness of Yah: on those who fell sharpness, but toward you kindness, if you continue in His kindness, otherwise you also shall be cut off. And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, shall be grafted in, for Yah is able to graft them in again. For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree, how much more shall these who are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? For I do not wish you to be ignorant of this secret, brothers, lest you should be wise in your own estimation, that hardening in part has come over Yisra’ĕl, until the completeness of the gentiles has come in. And so all Yisra’ĕl shall be saved, as it has been written, “The Deliverer shall come out of Tsiyon, and He shall turn away wickedness from Ya‛aqoḇ, and this is My covenant with them, when I take away their sins.” Truly, as regards the Good News they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of Yah are not to be repented of. For as you also at one time disobeyed Yah, but now have obtained compassion through their disobedience, so also these have now disobeyed, that through the compassion shown you they also might obtain compassion. For Yah has shut them all up to disobedience, in order to have compassion on all. Oh, the depth of riches, and wisdom and knowledge of Yah! How unsearchable His judgments and untraceable His ways! “For who has known the mind of יהוה ? Or who has become His counsellor?” “Or who first gave to Him, and it shall be given back to him?” Because of Him, and through Him, and to Him, are all, to whom be esteem forever. Amĕn. Rom 12:1, “I call upon you, therefore, brothers, through the compassion of Yah, to present your bodies a living offering – set-apart, well-pleasing to Yah – your reasonable worship.”



The fact Moses killed thousands, proves he was far from the God of the commandments, and as Jesus said, the god of the Jews was the devil, and guess what they called him? They called his name Yahweh.

Bye.
Isaiah 45:21-22, “Declare and bring near, let them even take counsel together. Who has announced this from of old? Who has declared it from that time? Is it not I, יהוה? And there is no mighty one besides Me, a righteous Power and Savior, there is none besides Me. Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth! For I am Strength, and there is none else.”
 
Oct 15, 2017
133
13
0
#98
PS Thank you for the fast and compact answers.

After reading that its hard to put your beliefs in a box, it wouldn't be gnosticism since you believe the creation is not evil in and of itself.
Do you go to any church that teaches this? Or do you have a website, youtube page or something?

The only comment I would make is that isn't there a risk in saying that:

We know by the content. The true God would never command us to break the commandments or to commit evil.
The risk would be that, if I dont like a particular rule, or commandment, I can just say well thats not good, Jesus wouldn't command that and put it aside? In other words picking and choosing. Could that happen?
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#99
I "lost the argument" I didnt know we were arguing and one could win or even declare themselves the winner. I thought we were reasoining and debating Scripture.

Also how is this out of context?

Jeremiah 10:10 NIV
But the LORD (#H3068 – YHWH) is the true God; he is the living God, the eternal King. When he is angry, the earth trembles; the nations cannot endure his wrath.

Because it shows you have a twisted doctrine?
I have told you about long posts.

But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation. (Jer 10:10 KJV)
Yes, the true and living God is KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. Not an idol and HE makes the earth to tremble. In other words GOD delivers judgement as he did with the plagues when he freed the Israelites out of Egypt and opened up the Red Sea.

It is not for us to act as god at the end of a gun.
 

JairCrawford

Senior Member
Oct 31, 2017
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I do not believe YHWH is a lesser god. I believe that in reality, YHWH, El Elyon, Elohim, El Shaddai are simply many different names for the Father.

BUT... I propose that perhaps not all of the ancient Israelites believed this, and at one point in their history they conveyed YHWH as their patron war deity, namely looking at Numbers through parts of Samuel.

I think a potential way to solve this is to ask ourselves if everything in the OT that is ascribed to YHWH is intended to be taken literally or not. It very well could be that God inspired parts of His word to read more like parables and thus reflect the culture of those writting them. And that actually fits in more with the way that Jesus taught as well, in parables.

I could be totally wrong, but I do not feel that my speculations on the matter affect my relationship with Christ at all. From what I see, the primary motivative purpose of the OT is to prophecy the coming of Immanuel. And He did indeed come. Hallelujah!