God's sovereignity and man's "freedom"...

[preacher4truth]

It seems obvious to me that saying we are "dead in our sins," when we are walking around living and breathing and very much alive in the here and now, means that "dead" in that case alludes to something other than our normal understanding of death.

You're having real trouble distinguishing between the fleshly and the spiritual, but go figure.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Metaphorically speaking this theology battle was onesided.

I think what peacefulbeliever was saying is that the dead in trespasses and sins doesnt mean dead as in not able to act, but metaphorically dead.

It, Ephesians 2:3, conveys the idea that as unregenerate ppl, we can not respond to the gospel. Why? We hate God[Romans 8:7] don't want anything to do with Him and can not grasp the gospel in our fallen state[1 Cor. 2:14], we are His enemies[Romans 5:11]. That is why the new birth, divine quickening, is an absolute must. He gives us a new heart[Ezekiel 11:19 & 36:26] and we now love Him.[1 John 4:7].

We had no say in our physical birth. We had no say in who are parents were. We had no say in where we were born. We had no say in when we were born. Jesus said we must be born again; not we must do something to be born again.

 

[TruthTalk]

I'll take it, did I say something smart yet?

Rep power was 13 now it is 14, I'd say that is saying something smart...

Rep Power14

 

[Magenta]

It, Ephesians 2:3, conveys the idea that as unregenerate ppl, we can not respond to the gospel. Why? We hate God[Romans 8:7] don't want anything to do with Him and can not grasp the gospel in our fallen state[1 Cor. 2:14], we are His enemies[Romans 5:11]. That is why the new birth, divine quickening, is an absolute must. He gives us a new heart[Ezekiel 11:19 & 36:26] and we now love Him.[1 John 4:7].

We had no say in our physical birth. We had no say in who are parents were. We had no say in where we were born. We had no say in when we were born. Jesus said we must be born again; not we must do something to be born again.

You must repent and believe. The number of times you deny this is deplorable.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I'll take it, did I say something smart yet?

 

[preacher4truth]

You must repent and believe. The number of times you deny this is deplorable.

You've spread this mistruth long enough on a good brother. The number of times you've done this is remarkable, but it must be your character and practice to do this.

 

[SovereignGrace]

You must repent and believe. The number of times you deny this is deplorable.

Sigh...again I have not denied this. You're such the liar, and that's deplorable. Jesus said in Luke 13:3 and 13:5 except you repent, you will perish. Repentance is very necessary as well as belief.

Now, stop lying and repent.

 

[SovereignGrace]

You must repent and believe. The number of times you deny this is deplorable.

You're conflating regeneration with conversion. Regeneration is the new birth and in this new birth, we are give faith and repentance and exercise them. Then we are saved. These happen at the same time.

 

[Magenta]

Sigh...again I have not denied this. You're such the liar, and that's deplorable. Jesus said in Luke 13:3 and 13:5 except you repent, you will perish. Repentance is very necessary as well as belief.

Now, stop lying and repent.

You have now changed your tune to agree that repentance and belief are necessary components of salvation, which Jesus DID say, in fact He started His earthly ministry with a call to repentance and belief, but you say I am wrong when I pointed out your error of omission! You need to stop lying and repent of presenting only part of the gospel to prop up your doctrine.

 

[Rokurac]

It seems obvious to me that saying we are "dead in our sins," when we are walking around living and breathing and very much alive in the here and now, means that "dead" in that case alludes to something other than our normal understanding of death.

The fact that we're walking indeed means we're alive, which we are, physically.
The fact that we are dead in our sins and trespasses means we are dead, spiritually.

Hope this helps.

 

[SovereignGrace]

You have now changed your tune to agree that repentance and belief are necessary components of salvation, which Jesus DID say, in fact He started His earthly ministry with a call to repentance and belief, but you say I am wrong when I pointed out your error of omission! You need to stop lying and repent of presenting only part of the gospel to prop up your doctrine.

I have never changed anything. I have always said faith and repentance are very necessary. Back to the burn pile you go.

I am going to have to quit giving ppl a second chance when I put them in my burn pile.

Adios senorita.

 

[Magenta]

The fact that we're walking indeed means we're alive, which we are, physically.
The fact that we are dead in our sins and trespasses means we are dead, spiritually.

Hope this helps.

So it is metaphorical after all. Got it.

 

[Magenta]

I have never changed anything.

Yes you have. You claimed Jesus never said we must do something aside from being born again, when obviously repentance and belief are necessary elements of salvation (musts), and Jesus DID speak of those. Stop lying

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Again, hearing is the key. Its not just hearing with the ears on the sides of our head, but with the ears of our spirit. Let him who has ears hear. This is not physical ears that is being addressed here. The dead can not hear. But you mitigate that to not literal death, but figurative death. As already been stated, you're trying to rewrite the narrative to fit your theology.

Hearing is the key . . . what else does man hear with besides his ears? What is the "ears of our spirit"? Without God man is body and soul . . . a living soul has breath and is alive - a dead soul has stopped breathing and knows nothing . . . that is literal death. Now that man that is a dead soul - one that has stopped breathing is DEAD and you're right they can't hear anything. But I don't believe that when I was a sinner, dead in trespasses and sins - I had stopped breathing at any time so I was alive but I reckoned (considered) myself dead because I was without God in my life. Hearing the word of God cut through all the sin and the bs in my life - For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
This is my comfort in my affliction: for your word has quickened me. Psalm 119:50
I will never forget your precepts: for with them you have quickened me. Psalm 119:93 - It is the word of God that brings people to godly sorrow which works repentance unto salvation . . .

Now the lost are metaphorically dead.

So the saved are metaphorically made alive.

The wheels just came off your theological wagon my Sister.

Unless one is metaphorically born again, they can not see the kingdom of heaven.

You must be metaphorically born again.

Marvel not that you must be metaphorically born again.

The lost are "spiritually" dead . . . They are literally made alive; being born again of the Spirit.

Because God used the word "dead" to emphasize what man is without Him, living in trespasses and sins, does not make the new birth metaphoric. Man without God is dead - no spirit life and he, literally, needs to be born again of the Spirit to be made alive. My wagon is running just fine.

I know that I have made myself clear . . . I know that what I say makes perfect sense and is in line with the word of God. By mocking what I believe according to my understanding of the word of God - you are mocking me. Thank you.

 

[preacher4truth]

The fact that we're walking indeed means we're alive, which we are, physically.
The fact that we are dead in our sins and trespasses means we are dead, spiritually.

Hope this helps.

You'd think the above were common sense. I guess sense is no longer common.

 

[UnderGrace]

Exactly, what I have read as well.

Plus in this mindset we are given repentance, belief and faith, so in the end it really does not matter, since no one is capable unless God does it all for the person, as well, He chooses to whom He does it to, because He is Sovereign ( Supremacy, Greatest) which now has been redefined to mean something closer to Totalitarian.

You have now changed your tune to agree that repentance and belief are necessary components of salvation, which Jesus DID say, in fact He started His earthly ministry with a call to repentance and belief, but you say I am wrong when I pointed out your error of omission! You need to stop lying and repent of presenting only part of the gospel to prop up your doctrine.

 

[Rokurac]

Please be seated before you read this, lol!

There are those who are anti-cals who say that expositional preaching and exegesis is UNBIBLICAL! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The devil quotes out of context, that is what we've learned.

 

[Magenta]

Back to the burn pile you go.

SovereignGrace with most of CC:

 

[Rokurac]

So it is metaphorical after all. Got it.

It is not metaphorical. It is genuine, just spiritual.

Not everything is flesh and material. This kind of thinking is why annihilationism is so popular today.

 

[Magenta]

Exactly, what I have read as well.

Plus in this mindset we are given repentance, belief and faith, so in the end it really does not matter, since no one is capable unless God does it all for the person, as well, He chooses to whom He does it to, because He is Sovereign ( Supremacy, Greatest) which now has been redefined to mean something closer to Totalitarian.

They are happy being puppets. God said, come, let us reason together. It seems some would rather think themselves to be mindless robots, and say that God ordains evil after commanding against it, as opposed to causing all things to work together for the good of those who love Him, including the evil that men do of their own will set against God's will.